chang1

The London embassy wanted everything paid for and confirmed for preaproval and then entered again after that was approved. Even the flights for a visa on arrival. Each submission was approved or disproved within about 4 hours in office hours. If you need to change an already approved coe you need the embassy/consulate to reset the application. This was for ASQ and sandbox COEs. I did both but not just for me and had to do a date change after gettingmy coe.

34 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

There are several SHA+ hotels priced at under 10,000 baht for 14 nights. 600 baht/night is not expensive.

 

There isn't much point in opening all the hotels when tourist numbers are 100 times lower than normal.

 

A good mix to suit all budgets is required. The sandbox is not for budget travellers. The testing alone cost more than our hotel. Hotels have to compete for customers those that can't fill enough rooms will stay closed. I hope they have an equal chance and not having some getting special treatment. 

As tourists are seen safe the testing can start to be relaxed. 4 PCR tests is over the top at least 2 could be changed to cheaper less reliable lateral flow tests. 

Budget tourists like, backpackers, spend their money in different places and often stay longer helping Thais that well off tourists don't help.

20 years ago Samui was full of small family run guest houses. They soon got bought out and replaced by larger hotels funneling money to wealthy Thais instead.

2 hours ago, impulse said:

1) No, I don't automatically (and arrogantly) believe that people who hold opinions contrary to mine are less intelligent than I am.  Maybe at a different stage in their life, since I'm an old fart with heart problems, and won't be spawning any kids in the future.

 

2) The vaccines have not been around long enough to do any definitive studies on how they'll affect the unborn.  That will take years.  You have drunk the Kool Aid.  It's okay to say "probably", but not okay to say "the results are in".  That's demonstrably false, a lie.  All you have to do is look at a calendar and understand that they can't test for learning disabilities right out of the womb.  It's that exact phenomena -being lied to- that's causing a lot of the hesitancy.  

 

1 - sorry,  anti vaxers wind me up and certainly not all of them are thick but I despair at what some have fallen for

2 -

  https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety-quality/new-data-reassuring-covid-19-vaccination-pregnancy

I meant preliminary results are in like those referred to in the link above. 

If no learning difficulties are found they will need to wait for reproductive studies then it will be life expectancy studies then are people's great grand children affected. 

There will never be enough evidence to prove vaccines are safe as they will always find some dodgy website claiming an African witch doctor saw a vaccinated person's descendant turn into a goldfish and fly away proving no-one should ever have been vaccinated, despite thousands of studies proving any minor risks are far outweighed by the real benefits.

If I called myself Dr conspiracy,  an ex government researcher and put out a YouTube video claiming nanobots are being added to vaccines to enable governments to track and control people many would believe it. 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

In 20 years, there's going to be a Zombie Apocalypse movie where there's a class of citizens called "Breeders", made up of the unvaccinated.  They'll be the only ones allowed to have kids because the Covid vaccines cause birth defects on everyone descending from the vaccinated.  Hopefully, it'll be fiction.

 

Vaccine tragedies are like asteroids.  The odds of them happening are almost (but not exactly) zero.  The problem is the absolute devastation on the 1 in 10,000 chance they do come to pass.

Until we have some history of vaccinated people getting pregnant, taking the pregnancy to term and demonstrating no adverse effects on the next generation(s), there's going to be people refusing to be vaccinated. And I support their choice of what they allow into their bodies (and by default, into their offspring).

 

And the CDC/gub'ments haven't made it any better.   No masks...  Wait a minute... No masks for the vaccinated...  Wait a minute.  Get vaccinated and get on with your life...  Wait a minute.  2 jabs and you're done...   Wait a minute.  No adverse side effects...  Wait a minute.  Masks required in public...  Unless you're "sophisticated".  Is it any wonder people don't trust their edict de jour?

 

 

You credit them with far too much intelligence.  If they just said they were concerned I could go with that but no they have to use the most stupid reasons to justify their concerns. These same people don't take the risk of dying from covid or getting long covid seriously yet do take the totally unproven minute risk a vaccine poses as a far higher concern. Then they lump all vaccines as one when there are actually many already around and more on the way. Apart from a few very rare cases this rollout of all the various vaccines has been a fantastic success. The only real problem has been getting it into people fast enough. 

Studies have already been done showing vaccines are safe to be given during pregnancy. I have not looked at the details but certainly some results are already in. 

Even if no birth defects are linked to vaccines, they will say it is a cover up and find a case of a vaccinated woman in Brazil or elsewhere having a baby with a problem of some kind to "prove" they were right all along even though the woman had been infected by the zicka virus just after getting pregnant. 

Are these people not concerned that the Delta variant could cause birth defects when unvaccinated people are infected? Easy for me to say that it is just as likely as I have just as much proof as they have for their mutant causing vaccines. 

In the UK we get them moaning that last week masks were not needed now they are, last month we were told to eat out now we are being locked down, last week we could go to Spain now we can't. We'll sorry if this confuses the stupid but covid or rather sars 2 doesn't follow the rules so the rules have to suit the situation. Hardly rocket science is it. Local lockdowns are the best things to show how stupid people are. Areas with high Asian populations became infected with the Delta strain and were locked down. It is known Asians are reluctant to get vaccinated and flout the rules like social distancing. Then people start moaning that they are unfairly being locked down more than other places (that follow the rules), 

I also have my criticisms of how things were handled such as - there should be a single website with all covid related information instead of it coming from multiple places - try finding out if a 12 year old counts as part of a group when groups are limited to 6 in a restaurant in England (not Scotland). 

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

This was cashflow, not profit. How much money was made in the scheme by Thais in the hospitality industry?

It is not just about profit. Keeping hotels, restaurants etc. ticking over with employees kept on is just as important. If a hotel goes under there is a massive problem for all connected to it from the owners right down to the cleaners and the supply industries like delivery drivers and farmers etc. Keeping hotels up and running ready for opening up is more important than making profit now. This is about reducing losses.

The more important question is how many jobs are being saved?

On 8/9/2021 at 8:08 PM, the green light said:

we know that there 2 ways to make money

 

1.incrase volume

2.raise prices

 

14,000 tourist would not generate Bht 1b....but raising prices would.

five star hotels  100%

local businesses 0%

 

However the rest of the country suffers. 

 

Tourists should have the heart of not going to Phuket and dumping a lot of money there. They should donate money to the poor and sick in thailand in these hard times.

 

 

I think I  can disagree with everything you say. 

You don't need to increase volume or prices to make money, only to make more money and neither is certain to do that. Increasing prices may end up reducing volume giving a net reduction. Increasing volume may require dropping prices giving a net reduction. 

Forcing people into 5 star hotels may cut down visitors drastically reducing net spending. Making small guest houses SHA+ compliant could encourage many backpackers to come which would help the poorer locals far more and give a larger net spend.

How does the sandbox affect the rest of the country adversely in any way apart from diverting an insignificant amount of vaccines?

How would tourists and others not going to Phuket help the rest of Thailand?

Finally - would you give up your first holiday in 2 years and give the money away thus ensuring another year stuck at home? I think you can guess what I  think about that  idea. If I  was not here in Phuket now all that money would have gone to Greece instead of Thailand. Maybe you should canvass the locals here in Karon about what they think of your ideas.

55 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

Not surprisingly, the states posting the lion's share of new cases are those states which are populated with COVID-19 deniers and vaccine refuseniks, e.g., with folks who get their "facts" from infotainment lapdogs on a certain notorious cable TV "news" channel rather than from actual health experts.

They do seem to fit a pattern with one or more of these traits -

Trump supporters 

Religious 

Conspiracy theory believers 

Obviously the common link is a total inability to think critically. If it is said by Trump, a minister or on YouTube it must be true - no need to question it and anyone who says different is the enemy to be shot down without even trying to understand their facts.

I'm sure some would even believe the world is flat if their gurus said so.

6 hours ago, impulse said:

Most of them will happily get the jab once they've publish the results of long term studies on the effects of the jab, and the effects on the unborn.

 

In the meantime, they've decided that the vaccine's risk to themselves and to their unborn children are higher than the risk of Covid to a young adult.

 

And until a "long term" has transpired, nothing and nobody can prove them wrong.  By definition.  And I agree with their right to choose, though at my age I got the jab as soon as it was practical.

 

If that is their genuine reason then yes they should have a choice. The problem is these people are mostly just jumping on the latest excuse they can find and are being influenced by the most stupid and at best flimsy evidence from the least reliable sources while rubbishing proper scientific studies and claiming "covid is no worse than flu used by elites as an excuse to control us". Everytime their arguments are proved groundless they move the goal posts. "Long term" will become a lifetime which will become several lifetimes. I have no time for these muppets now and it's time they were made to suffer the consequences of their anti social behaviour. These are the same people who refuse to wear masks even though it is proven they reduce transmission at least in places with poor ventilation or inadequate distancing. Young men come into restaurants claiming they are too disabled to walk a few metres from the door to a table wearing a mask yet are quite happy to mix with people who could give them a severe respiratory disease. They are selfish A-holes that don't deserve respect. If a new variant comes along that only affects them, I won't be anymore concerned for them than they were for me before I got vaccinated. Forcing them to get medical insurance to cover them for their increased covid risk may be a good start. 

2 hours ago, pagallim said:

OK, for whatever the reason that she was attacked, whether robbery or sexual assault, it was done in daylight in a quiet area with no other people around.   Whatever the motivation, there was nothing to make the guy think 'maybe not a good idea, other people around' because there was nobody.    Again, I know the area, and certainly as the schools are closed at the moment, it's popular with local children who play in the stream and pools.   He took a big risk in not being caught at the time, which he obviously didn't care about, and he certainly wouldn't have known how much money she had on her, only that she would have something.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/update-suspect-in-swiss-murder-in-phuket-is-a-thai-man

The linked article says he admitted attempted rape.

At least they have a plausible suspect this time. It is always a worry when something like this happens that they may pickup anyone with say a bit of cctv video of them in the area and then tailor the evidence to suit. I was in Lamai on Samui when the lass was raped and killed. There was a big fuss and Taksin even went there. Two fishermen soon got caught with her shirt on their boat. When the man who had thousands of suspected drug dealers killed by police turns up expecting results you don't keep incriminating evidence around. I don't know what other evidence there was but it all seemed a bit too easy to me. 

13 minutes ago, ukrules said:

When it beomces the same as a 'cold' then it's a cold. We're not there yet though.

 

Data can be gathered from largely unvaccinated countries which have widespread outbreaks of Delta and the next variants which will surely emerge in due course.

 

There are many such countries where hardly anyone is vaccinated and Delta is running rampant over the whole population.

 

Eventually someone will run the numbers and do proper national sero surveys....the only worry is that these numbers will be suppressed for some unimaginable reason.

I still don't understand. Are you thinking a new harmless yet highly transmissible variant will stop all new variants evolving or it will give us immunity to Them? 

The countries that have rampant delta strain are suffering unless their population is well vaccinated like the UK where despite high infection rates there are relatively few deaths and hospitalisations. The young and other unvaccinated people are now at most risk. I was in our local hospital ICU a couple of weeks ago and there were no covid cases at the time. A massive difference to earlier this year when I saw a constant stream of undertakers going in and out of the same hospitals mortuary. 

I think the more likely outcome is a regular vaccine booster like we have for flu.

3 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I have lived here for 25 years and speak the lingo I have never heard that, 

We live in the UK so get a different view on what goes on in Thailand. I don't know why that is a major concern for her especially here.

2 hours ago, pagallim said:

Why do you doubt that she was killed for money?   I've lived here for 14 years and whilst there's always been a very small element that commit crimes, these are usually drug habit related.   What you have at the moment is a situation where a significant number of locals do not have the means to support themselves or their families.   That can lead to irrational acts from normally rational but desperate people.   Foreign tourists (and yes, Expats) have always been perceived as wealthy and in these times it is best to keep a low profile (not that there are many places open that you can do other than that).

 

You say 'biking'.   Is that cycling or motorbike?   And of course 'we' so you are not alone.

The facts that she was reported to have been raped and her shorts were removed. This guy is the son of an ex headman so probably not on the breadline. She only had 300 baht so why put up a fight over that? Lastly, drugs are also involved which can make people act differently. 

No proof just speculation. 

I am with my wife and young son going around on a small Honda.

We don't go far from roads and are aware of the risks here.

4 hours ago, VBF said:

I almost agree with that, except that the numbers I look at are deaths and people who are actually sick whether in hospital or not. Reason being that these people are actually suffering to a greater or lesser degree, and may go on to get "long Covid".

 

But certainly just testing positive doesn't really matter if one is asymptomatic, providing that you and those around you are getting vaccinated.

That is the essential difference between Thailand and UK.

I am just looking at if the situation is getting better or worse. 

How it affects people is important but also those numbers I would expect to be proportional to the death rate.

6 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

conclusion:   THE VACCINE DOES NOT WORK !!

yes, hard to admit, but true : VACCINES ARE NOT WORKING !!!

The cult is strong with you! 

First you need to define "work".

If you are expecting no infections or transmission then of course they don't "work".

If you mean they don't reduce hospitalizations and deaths of vaccinated people then that is a bold statement indeed. Unfortunately these kind of anti vax statements are ALWAYS A CROC OF <deleted>.

as usual I will give a chance to show the source of this devastating revelation. 

So please provide a link or two to reputable sites with the studies that prove your claim.

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

What we need is a variant which spreads like wildfire AND doesn't really kill many people, I'm sure this will come along, it's just a matter of when...

How will that help anything?

10 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Glad you're enjoying yourself stay safe

Thanks. My wife's biggest concern is that our 7 year old will be abducted for organ harvesting in China. Although I share this concern I doubt they would want him for that as there are kids much closer with easier routes to China than a locked up island.

7 hours ago, pagallim said:

I know that my comment may come across as potentially fear mongering, however just trying to put some reality into the current situation.

 

There is an element of desperation amongst some locals that whilst for most, commiting a crime would be abhorrent to them, needs must.   Not so easy targetting tourists when there are many of them and in crowds, which is certainly not the case now.   Visitors currently stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.

 

Those who do choose to come here at the moment, just need to reflect on how to make themselves as safe as possible, because sure as chips, the police aren't going to do it for you.

Do you have any figures to show it is more dangerous now? I have my doubts she was killed for money. After 10 days of biking around I have not felt at risk anywhere but we don't go far from tourist routes. I have not heard of people being mugged here before and not heard it is a problem now. Bag snatchers on bikes are a known problem so don't carry a bag of goodies around. 

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

To stay safe, people should just travel within there known circles and always be safe, especially right now as the Delta and who knows what new variant may be skulking about.

To stay safe is impossible, just look at Thai roads. Sooner or later you have to weigh up the risks. I'm fully vaccinated and doing the sandbox thing. I have put off things and kept away from people but now judge travel is safe enough for us to get back to normal. Until a vaccine resistant strain comes along there is very low risk to us or our hosts. The anti vaxers have done their best to keep us locked up but we are now free and they are the ones who get left out.

12 minutes ago, robbioff said:

Phuket must be getting cheaper...how do I get in?

I would like to know how the amount is known? A small point but could be important. 

9 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Where do you get this nonsense from? There is no forest there….you are about a 100 feet from the road…..and when I was there all times of year nowhere to swim because there wasn’t much water. It is a dead end road. It isn’t much of a tourist attraction. I don’t believe she found her way there on her own, she had either been there before or somebody took her there. Much more interesting places close to Ao Yon than that place. Lived there for three years and pretty much hiked the whole area. The whole story sounds like <deleted> made up by the police to me……300 baht…..what woman would lose her life for that pathetic amount? She wasn’t a youngster, and she would have just given him the money. Story has huge holes in it.

Rape and possibly drugged up sounds plausible and money just a bonus for him. 

Were you led there or did you find it yourself? Is the area mentioned in guide books?