ianguygil

Hello Ian,

do you work for the Bangkok Bank?

Thanks for the advice already given.

Kind regards.

Yes, I am an exec in Bangkok Bank. You can check my other posts and see that I have helped plenty of others as have Daveroc who is responsible for Expat relations

As I noted you can do this in a branch, but if you have any problems you can contact me in advance. You will need ID (for non Thai residents that is a passport). And it would be good if you have your old ATM card and your account passbooks. Thanks

Ian

Not a problem. You can go to the branch and we can take care of this. You can PM me if you need any special help.

Ian

Without getting too far into this as I am in a meeting, I think it is also very important to differentiate between a Virus and a Trojan, as these really sophisticated attacks we have all seen are normally Trojans. All banks had a problem with this around the end of 2009 and into 2010 and most found a layered approach to get around it.

The biggest problem in Thailand are the very large number of "idiots" who use unlicensed software. Such unlicensed software almost always comes with one or more "presents" often in the form of Trojans or other malware. I can not tell you how false a saving this is. We are just about to launch another free product for customers to help to protect them when they use our sites against Trojans and other malware. But more about that later.

I will post more on our recommended best practices later. Please note that Trojans affect all platforms. I will hear Apple fans tell me that the App Store protects them, and that is true to some extent. But given the HUGE percentage of Jailbroken i-everythings in this market, again because they are "idiots" and like to have "free" software, that partial protection is pretty much negated.

The only real protection is the multi-layered approach with out of band authentication and processing using things like SMS for sensitive transactions as we do on iBanking. Strong authentication on APPS is NO protection against Trojans, in fact I once met the CISO of JP Morgan who told me their most hacked application had tokens at logon.

More later. I am in a meeting.

Ian

Ian,

I have followed this and other threads regarding Bangkok Bank. And, your excellent postings were a reason for me to open an account with BB several months ago. I now transfer money through the New York Branch to Thailand. And, have had no problems. And, will add that the BB call center is English speaking and helpful.

Thanks for all your help.

Thank you. Glad it all worked out. We try to make this seamless. I know how frustrating it can be dealing with banks in different countries.

Sorry if I have to get into the internals of Banking at times. Otherwise it is hard to explain what customers experience with SWIFT etc.

So if you can give me a quick description of the transaction I can try to explain what we and the other banks I have worked for would do.

Ian,

i have transferred today a six digit USD amount from my bank in Singapore to my personal account in Thailand and i will do exactly the same tomorrow. on monday i expect from your bank the usual phone call "do you accept xx.xx exchange rate?" i'm not a client of Bangkok Bank but all transfers from my banks in Singapore and Luxembourg to my Thai bank have been routed since years through your bank.

if i give you the details by e-mail can you find out in what way (or perhaps not) NY was involved?

OK, Naam. Here we go.

In the scenario you gave above, it seems that your bank in Singapore is a Correspondent of Bangkok Bank and not of your local bank (I think you said SCB). So you would move xxx,xxx USD to Thailand which means that the Singapore bank would most likely credit their Due To account in USD that we hold with them for the xxx,xxx dollars and would send us a SWIFT payment instruction to credit your THB account at SCB for y,yyy,yyy THB where y,yyy,yyy/xxx,xxx is the Exchange Rate. So we would set the rate (if you did not have an FX Contract) based on our Treasury (for 6 figures you should really get an special FX rate by contacting us first). We would then transfer the funds in y,yyy,yyy THB (minus charges for SWIFT and the Domestic Transfer) by the local clearing system (ITMX or whatever) to the credit of account at SCB. All that detail would have been in the Payment Instruction (SCB as the Beneficiary Bank and you as the Beneficiary) and we are the Intermediary of your bank in Singapore used to clear the funds in Thailand.

So we in Bangkok Bank end up with USD in the bank in Singapore. And we can either choose to build up our position in USD (if the Treasury decides) or we can sell those USD onwards to other customers who need USD.

Please remember that an account is a promise to pay a certain amount in a certain currency on certain terms (maturities, advance notice etc). It does NOT imply that this currency is always maintained on hand, although more conservative banks tend to keep their positions and exposures pretty much in line. It is up to a bank to manage their liquidity (we are an EXTREMELY liquid bank) and their currency positions. As you can see some very illiquid banks can run into problems when their funding dries up. Please think of LEHMAN as the most recent case study, or Northern Rock in the UK. So the implication is that just because we have accounts in USD does not necessarily mean USD in the US.

I our case things are difference because we have a branch in New York. However, our USD accounts are drawn on the Head Office in Thailand. We do use our branch in New York as our correspondent, just as large international banks use their International branch network.

This is a hugely complex subject and I will not clog up this post with too many details. If you PM me I can give you my email. Then you can send me the details of the exact transfers and I can tell you what happened.

The post you gave where you said SCB called to set the rate was probably a case where the bank had a direct correspondent relationship with SCB. So they credited a USD Due To account in Singapore owned by SCB, they sent the Payment Instruction via SWIFT, then SCB called to set the rate with you.

Like I said, PM me and we can discuss.

I can not say exactly what is reported where in the US as it depends on the bank providing the Due To in USD to the Thai bank.

You can definitely transfer USD from Singapore to a USD account in Thailand, we offer more than 10 currencies for Foreign Currency accounts in Thailand, the most recent if which is the Chinese Yuan. This then gives you the option of converting into THB when you want to.

Wow, this was a long post and I thought it would be fast

Ian

Ian,

did you read my last posting? for the first time no call from your bank but from mine. beats me!

The network is so slow here I was still replying to the message before. I'll PM me email now. Sorry. This is too hard via supposed 3G

Many moons ago when being paid in US$ and trying to get them transferred from my offhore bank to my onshore location the bank told me the delay was due to the money having to go though Wachovia Bank in New York and explained that ALL US$ moved around the world went that route.

Naam, can do, I will PM you with my email. You can then post whatever you want. Doing this from my BB in the meeting so I apologise for any errors

Ian

Please PM me if you want some idea of what we pay this kind of experience. I can not discuss our salary levels on this forum. But if you have approached them you should expect to get a local rate. If they approached you abroad it would be different.

I hire a lot of people, including .NET and other developers. So I can give you an idea of what is normal and what is not.

I can tell you that for 2 years of experience you would normally not be a target for an expat position unless you have some very exceptional skills and experience.

FYI, I have a very large number of staff, all Thai, and you can find most kinds of skills and experience in Thailand except for some of the most senior staff, architects and emerging technologies. SAP, while there is huge demand, is not one of those technologies.

Ian

Naam, I don't have a lot of time to reply on this, but the fact is that a payment to an offshore USD account does not have to go through a US bank. The accounting as I said may well affect correspondent accounts in the US (our USD accounts are drawn on our branch in New York) but the payment will not directly involve the US.

take your time Ian! whatever you dig up is precious information for me because i'm in charge of handling a fistful portfolios and their relevant yield dispersion for some good friends.

nota bene: i am not talking about "correspondent" banks. i am talking about information popping up in New York and/or Frankfurt for whatever reasons unkown to me. this is the gospel from "real" banks. why should they have any interest to spread wrong information?

Hi Naam

I will try to get to this tomorrow. I am in annual planning cycle here and you can imagine how much fun that is ..

Obviously as a responsible bank we comply with all the reporting regulations. Maybe if you give me 1 of your use case scenarios I can take you though how it would work and we can see if we are both saying the same thing but using different words. So if you can give me a quick description of the transaction I can try to explain what we and the other banks I have worked for would do. Thank you

Ian

techically all USD transfers do not have to go via the US. I think there is some misunderstanding here. While it may affect correspondent accounts in the US via NOSTRO/VOSTRO accounts, the accounts involved in the transfer can all be offshore.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ Ian. please update your information.

for what it's worth... a transfer of USD between two banks in Singapore goes with IBAN details via NY even if these two banks are located in the same building. something similar applies to €UR transfers which are routed via Frankfurt, Germany. i have transferred EUR from Singapore to Thailand. Bangkok Bank is the intermediate bank in Thailand for my SG bank when i make EUR transfers. BUT, according to my bank, the "booking" is done in Frankfurt.

this fact does not concern me but it concerns those Germans who bank in SG, live partially in Thailand or anywhere abroad but are still slaves of the German taxman. any multinational bank of good standing will advise their clients about the potential problems if their names are popping up in the U.S. or in Germany and recommend to convert EUR or USD and transfer CHF via Zürich. how long the latter will be "safe" is a different animal.

Naam, I don't have a lot of time to reply on this, but the fact is that a payment to an offshore USD account does not have to go through a US bank. The accounting as I said may well affect correspondent accounts in the US (our USD accounts are drawn on our branch in New York) but the payment will not directly involve the US.

When I have time I will elaborate with an example. Right now I am pretty booked and need to run. Thanks

Ian

Thanks. I did not know.

And I did not try another bank.

I'm not surprised Kasikorn doesn't know, but my bank in Europe?

Anyway, I have new hope for a solution.

If you want to move these funds from Thailand you can easily do so via Bangkok Bank. Please PM me if you need help with this, we are the largest correspondent in Thailand and we are the only Thai bank to have a branch in New York. Others have Rep Offices which are not the same as Branches.

BTW, techically all USD transfers do not have to go via the US. I think there is some misunderstanding here. While it may affect correspondent accounts in the US via NOSTRO/VOSTRO accounts, the accounts involved in the transfer can all be offshore.

Anyway, please let me know if I can help you.

Ian

Really quick post just to close this thread out, this weekend we rollout out new releases of Biz (Business iBanking) and regular Consumer iBanking. Now you can use FireFox as promised on Biz (it was supported already on IB).

We continue to add new Browser and OS combinations as driven by the market. As I said before we block browsers which are not certified. Clearly customers can set their browsers to mimic IE and there is not much we can do to prevent it (pretty much all have this capability including Safari) but if you run into a problem that is not a fully supported option.

Ian

No plans to support Linux. It is too small a percentage of the PCs we see to justify the testing cycle. We do support MAC OS/X which is actually FREE BSD with lipstick on, but not Linux. So you will still need to fire up XP or WIN/7 as a guest under Red Hat, Suse or whatever you run.

The figures I referred to from BangkokBank.Com are from the Webserver logs on the Public Website. Linux is less than 1%.

The percentage is low also for the reason that the services can not be used with Linux

I changed my business account from Ayutthaya bank to iBiz because on their system it was really difficult to make payments.

IBiz is pretty ok, just fix the restrictions.

You don't need to do extensive testing with linux, just don't make it hard for linux users to use the service. You don't need to advertise that the service works with linux. Do not put checks what is the OS or browser behind the http requests, if it works, that's ok. If the service works with Windows or Mac Firefox, it's likely to work with Linux firefox as well.

Otherwise we need to change the browser headers, which is always annoying thing to do.

Previously I could login to iBiz with linux FF and do basic things. Only thing that was not working was selecting date for the money transfer. This is likely to be fixed on your new version anyway.

If you need to explain these to your non-technical bosses, you can also refer that there are plenty of mini laptops which are running linux.

I will answer all this on Monday as today I am accessing from my BB. But I do need to point out again that the statistics I quote are from BangkokBank.Com which is open, non autheticated and a high percentage of the customers do not have accounts with is. So they don't use our online transaction services. So this is absolulte relevant data

i

First I must say that I'm really happy when the iBiz will start supporting other browsers. Welcome to this millennium!

Currently I have to start vmware with xp on it to be able to use the iBiz banking with linux. This was simply because the date forms supported only some proprietary IE function.

What comes to the stat counters, those are not fully reliable. More advanced users, who use more advanced browsers are likely to use ad-blockers and other functions which can also block the information to the statistics collectors. Still the best way to get the real information is from the webserver logfiles.

No plans to support Linux. It is too small a percentage of the PCs we see to justify the testing cycle. We do support MAC OS/X which is actually FREE BSD with lipstick on, but not Linux. So you will still need to fire up XP or WIN/7 as a guest under Red Hat, Suse or whatever you run.

The figures I referred to from BangkokBank.Com are from the Webserver logs on the Public Website. Linux is less than 1%.

Well I'm happy to hear that. Could you do away with that non copy/paste feature as well ?

We have no plan to allow cut and paste at login. Preventing cut and paste is an established best practice. If we allow customers to paste their password the implication is that we approve of them storing it somewhere, and we absolutely do not agree to this. Customers should never write their password down. Period. Be that electronically or hardcopy.

You are correct that we do not allow customers to change their Company ID with Biz at this time. With iBanking for consumers you can change the Bank assigned ID to one of your choice.

So, sorry, but for very good reasons we have no intention of allowing cut and paste at logon.

For all those who are interested, here is another site which can provide browser statistics by country and time. This was given to me by the executive on my staff who actually manages iBanking (Biz and Consumer). Great guy.

http://gs.statcounter.com

Right now I am done with this thread and I don't plan to check back again. If you want to get my attention please PM me. Or even better please contact Daveroc who is responsible for Expat matters. Thanks

Thanks for the response Ian. Interesting, The swing to Chrome looks as if you you may have to start supporting this as the market share of Firefox seems to be dropping.

Nice to have someone who can respond despite the somewhat agessive an OT nature of some responses.

Absolutely. Chrome is on the radar.

All this does not cover the Mobile iBanking product which has to cover a huge range of browsers and form types.

Sigh, the world use to be so easy..:jap:

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

Sure I can provide a link : http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp

But I can't see why the stats matter. Firefox is one of the most used browsers and not supporting FF should be on top of big company's list imo.

OK,.here we go

The reason I asked about the source of those statistics is firstly that you posted it directing it at us, and that they are so hugely different from our own experience with the BangkokBank.Com public website which does not block browsers at all. So I wanted to see the scope and source of these numbers. From the website it is clear that the statistics are from users accessing their site. And as they say on the site that their users tend to be people interested in experimenting with technologies and most normal users keep the browser which ships with their computer (PC). This site is also it appears in America and their customers probably originate mainly from that area. So this is in no way representative of what we see where our customers are normal people, mainly in Thailand, wanting to use a modern direct banking channel.

The other reason I asked is to do with the terms of use of the site wich state that all data on their site is copyrighted and can not be used without their written consent. So I am definitely not posting it back in this response even though I may refer to it

This site http://truehits.net/monthly/ gives a picture of the traffic in Thailand which is much closer to our real world experience with much more than 60% of customers still using IE (IE9 IE8 IE7).

As for our support for Browsers, I have answered this several times before on Thaivisa. We are absolutely committed to supporting the platforms, devices, browsers etc. used by our customers. Back in "the day" when we first launched iBanking the market share was dramatically different, with IE having 97%+ of the market in Thailand. Also, many of the standards which now exist were not yet in place. So we went with the most popular package in the world which is also used by huge banks like JP Morgan which was at the time based on Active Server Pages. And we went with IE only. That made sense at the time, and we blocked other browsers that we had not "certified" with each release of the product. Some other banks chose not to block uncertified browsers (and still do so), in which case you may find your transaction fails in the middle of processing.

As the market has progressed we have expanded to more browsers for iBanking the consumer product. At this time we support IE, Firefox (later this month) and Safari. Please note that as a commercial consideration, each time we add a Browser we need to test ALL browser/OS combinations. So we have to test IE7 on XP, VISTA and WIN-7, plus IE8 on....... We also have to test different versions of Safari on different versions of MAC OS/X. And now we introduce the Mobile versions into the mix (an iPad is actually an iPhone not a MAC tablet so it is Mobile Safari which is not the same as Safari). So this full regression test for each combination takes time and resources, even though we have all the usual tools of test automation etc.

Biz has honestly lagged the Consumer product in terms of Browser support for a couple of reasons. Firstly we were more focused on new functionality, all of which was written to support multiple browsers so there was less to retrofit. Secondly the demand was not as strong from the customer base as must companies still use IE because they can lock it down via AD. But in the last year or so there has been clear demand so we have worked on it (particularly from European customers). So as Daveroc says we have a new release this month which is fully Firefox certified and we hope our customers will find this to be convenient.

I hope this addresses your questions. PM me if you have a specific issue about your account. Thank you.

Ian

An update for the Biz IBanking product is planned for release this month which will see access available via FF.

Wow. Simultaneous posts :-D

I'll respond to most of this tomorrow when I have time as I'm out in meetings today. If you want me to address specific numbers like browser stats please refer to the source as your numbers differ to ours greatly

Also if you want to get my attention, please PM not just post

Thanks. Ian

one of the guys on here works there, he might read your post and help you

And an FYI, if you want to setup Internet Banking you can do so from any Bangkok Bank ATM. We have more than 7,000 of them.

http://www.bangkokba...es/default.aspx

Ian

Thank you for this... I did not realize it was this easy, I will sign up the next time I hit the ATM.

I see a lot of complaints from a bunch of folks about BB, but I have to say that I have never had any bad experiences with their service. All of the BB tellers and staff that I have interacted with over the last 4 yrs have been polite and helpful.

Tried this at our BBK ATM in the small town where I live and unsuccessful, informed me to contact my branch.

Speaking to the BBK staff at our branch and she informed me that it was probably because I had a joint account, fair enough, completed all the forms, having the wife present is a must as she signs all the forms plus ID card/house book etc etc.

This was about 3 weeks ago now and no news from the branch on internet banking, so will have to start chasing up!.

Please PM me and I will get somebody to follow up on your case. I will contact you from my Bangkok Bank email and we can go from there.

Our thanks to the kind words from those customers who are satisfied. And for those customers who have experienced problems I have already offered for you to PM Daveroc or me and we can try to help to resolve these. As I said, we are not perfect, but we are always willing to listen and improve. We have more than 20,000 employees and way more than 10 million customers. While we strive to be right 100% of the time it seems that some more training is required for some of our staff sometimes who do not give the right answers to customers when dealing face to face.

So the offer stands. Please PM Daveroc if you actually want to have the issues resolved, and that applies to everybody, even those who have made highly critical posts.

Back to the OP, we are always sorry to hear that a customer is dissatisfied with our service. And we know we are not perfect and we will try to improve. I have offered for you to contact me or to contact Daveroc. But that does not seem to be acceptable.

For a credit card there are clearly restrictions for non residents. A WP does not make somebody a resident. Just as in the USA or the UK (I have worked in both) we would look for a credit history and some tie to the community. If you really want a credit card please contact Daveroc who can put you in the standard process.

As for the problem with our Bualuang phone service that you experienced, we just cannot replicate it. I did not ask my secretary or staff to try, I called myself. And there was no problem. I checked with our Change Advisory Board which controls all changes to our Production environment. There were no recent changes. Any TV members can dial the 1333 shortcode and check for yourself. Enter 2 at the first menu, it gives you the next menu in English. So as I said, we cannot replicate it, there was no recent change, and I tried it myself. We are sorry if you are unhappy with this, but that is really the best we can do. And I do invite other TV members to try this to see for themselves.

I just dialed our Short Code of 1333

It asked me to enter 2 for English. I did so. It spoke to me in English asking me to select if I want to pay bills... etc.

Please try again. I checked to make sure there had not been a change which messed things up

one of the guys on here works there, he might read your post and help you

If anybody is having problems with our products or services, please contact me via PM or Daveroc.

He is actually the best person to PM as he is assigned to the Expat community whereas I am IT and Strategy and I travel a fair bit. So please contact Dave and he can even arrange an appointment at your choice of branch for people who want to open an account. Or he can help to sort out problems like this person complained about.

I must say his complaint is a new one. Our IVRs (VRUs) answer millions of calls each month and have been serving both Thai and English languages for years. It would be good if he could contact Dave to give the specifics. Thanks

And an FYI, if you want to setup Internet Banking you can do so from any Bangkok Bank ATM. We have more than 7,000 of them.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/online%20banking/for%20personal/ibanking/how%20to%20apply/pages/default.aspx

Ian

OP replying.

Thanks all for your really helpful replies,I was getting a bit jittery over it all.

I went to Central World today with a friends Thai Wife.Bangkok Bank and Kalisorn Bank would not open an account,similar excuses as before,but the Siam Commercial Bank were very cooperative and an account,with internet banking was open in about 10 minutes.They accepted my visa and condo key card ( with my address on it ) as proof of my residence.

It did made a huge difference taking a Thai speaker along.

Thanks Again

I am sorry I did not get time to reply to your PM before you decided to open this account with another bank. As I said I was on business abroad last week and was flying when you sent the PM.

I apologise that our branch gave you the wrong information. You were indeed eligible to open an account and they have been contacted and will receive training to ensure they provide the right answer in the future.

For any other ThaiVisa members who would like to open an account and meet the criteria on our website (link shown below) please feel free to contact me in advance and we can arrange an appointment at the branch which is most convenient for you. But please understand that it may take me a day or so to get to this as I am pretty busy generally. Thanks.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Foreign%20Customers/Pages/Opening%20an%20account%20new.aspx