Jose

Visibility down to about 1.5km at Sansai this morning.

Got the 3M Filtrete (replaced after just 4 days) a/c and dedicated air filter running on max.

Makro had lots of them a few months ago. Also a semi-permanent UV lights which attracts the mozzies thru the night and zaps with a zillion volts.

For some reason, we cannot bring them into Australia. (the racquet shaped ones)

Just did,nothing said by oz customs

I tried as well, but mine was taken away at Sydney airport customs.

Was that before or after you shouted..."You cannot be serious"?

You Cannot Be Serious!

Personally, I never eat any food off the street and even at home, I enforce a strict 3 second rule!

3 second rule

Makro had lots of them a few months ago. Also a semi-permanent UV lights which attracts the mozzies thru the night and zaps with a zillion volts.

For some reason, we cannot bring them into Australia. (the racquet shaped ones)

Just did,nothing said by oz customs

I tried as well, but mine was taken away at Sydney airport customs.

Awk, I'd like to suggest the following experiment (if possible) in order to determine how well rain (or a water-based filtering device) may clean air pollution:

1) Open windows in shower room for 1 hour;

2) Close windows in shower room and take particle measurements at that point in time;

3) Run shower for 20-30 minutes whilst taking particle measurements;

4) Post results here.

Since "the site and extent of absorption of inhaled gases and vapors are determined by their solubility in water", this may give us some interesting results and additional food for thought.

my hack is to to use 2 layers of Filtrete over the intake which is on top of my unit.

I use small amount of tape to hold down the edges.

Just off the cuff measurement where I put my eye ball near the A/C's outflow and notice less eye irritation than using the filtrete over the internal filter. My theory is don't suck dirty air into the unit at all.

I might try adding a layer to internal filter next for a total of 3 layers.

It would be interesting to compare the two Filtrete layers in a few days - this will tell us how efficient a single layer of the material is.

If that second layer is found to be clean, then it's likely that the only thing it is doing is impeding a/c airflow.

There were some difference in opinion regarding what will faster "clean" a room, an AC or an airpurifier, so I would like to add some actual data, hopefully of interest to some.

I am still analysing things, but I attach a draft graph displaying some of the difference between a new Samsung AC running at full speed with 3M Filtrete attached on top of the original air filter, with Samsung's "Virus Doctor" feature too, in a room that is around 18m2, and a an air purifier (Blueair 650E) also running at full speed in the same room. At different points in time of course. ;-)

For understanding the graphs, it is important to note that the pm10 values

are shown on the right-side Y-axis. The left-side Y-axis shows only the

pm2.5 values, and has a different scale since there are relatively many

pm2.5 particles compared to pm10.

In short, this graph shows the following:

1) At 22:33 we turn on the AC on full speed, and let it run at that

speed till 23:21. We then turn the AC off for 8 minutes, and measure

the particle count outside the room at that time, indicated with the

red '+' mark for pm 2.5 values and the green 'x' mark for pm 10 values

As can be seen, the AC with 3M Filtrete has reduced the particle

count by quite a bit, especially for the larger pm 10 particles,

during the 50 minutes it has run.

During the 8 minutes it does not run, the particle count in the room

does a slight jump. Whether it does that due to the AC being turned

off or due to me opening and closing the door to the outside a couple

of times to move the particle counter from inside to the outside is

not relevant for this graph.

- At 23:29 I switch on the Blueair 650E, max speed, with the AC still off.

And well, you can see for yourselves what happens during the next 20

minutes, in particular with the (supposedly more harmful) pm2.5 count.

If there is any interest from others here, I will possibly update my

amateur's analysis PDF that I posted in another thread with some more

data and introduce some graphs too.

Very interesting...

So to summarize, an a/c with Filtrete material does a good job of removing the larger PM10 particulates, with average results for PM2.5 removal. The dedicated air filter does a great job with both, according to your results.

More on atmospheric particulate matter here.

I find that trusting in a well known brand such as 3M, is comfort enough

Yes, comfort indeed... 3M is very well known - not least for spreading PFOS throughout the ecosystem, a persistent global pollutant that causes cancer and other ailments, traces of which are found in many animals including humans.

One thing one should be aware of, perhaps obvious to smarter people that me so I hope I do not offend you, but I wasted the first 10-20 minutes of a test by not thinking about it, is that a modern AC with a thermostat will, of course, switch to idle once the target temperature is reached. From then on it will probably remain mostly idle, only waking up now and then, and thus providing little filtration effect I suspect, unless the few moments it wakes up every now and then are enough. I doubt the latter, but have not (yet?) tried to verify it.

The AC might support a "fan" mode (the brand new AC I am currently testing with 3M Filtrete does and that is the mode I now use when testing it), which keeps running until one manually switch the AC off. This mode provides no cooling effect however, and at this time, one needs both cooling and air filtration unfortunately.

Maybe it will work to set the target temperature of the AC to something low enough to never be reached in practice, if possible, to prevent the AC from going idle. Apart from that, I am not sure what one can do if one has such a nice and modern AC, except possibly manually opening it up and disabling the thermostat, if one has enough electronics knowledge. Invalidating any warranty at the same time of course. This was no problem with the ancient ACs in my own rented home of course, so for something they might be better. ;-)

Awk, when the dialed temperature is reached by our a/c, its thermostat switches off the outside compressor but the fan keeps running, so we have continuous air filtration regardless of room temperature.

Filtrete material is already dark after just two days - may need to change it every four days at this rate.

Hmmm... you seem 60% certain of gold's price dropping over the next two months, and this is based on...? It seems as if you're pulling statistics out of thin air, based on ego-challenging urges.

So be it - I'll take on your new challenge, with a now reduced 57% probability certainty that gold will be somewhat higher in USD terms (currently $1338.20) on the market close of Friday 30th May 2014 - based on seasonal price movement over the past seven years:

Please try to understand the following:

1) Based on the seasonal study above, there is also a 43% probability of gold's price being lower by Mon 2nd June 2014 (note that this particular seasonal trade would have been a loss during 2012-2013);

2) Seasonal market tendencies (specially weak ones) are easily overwhelmed by current events. For example, if the Euro/GBP/Yen were to sink sometime over the next 3 months, gold will do great in terms of those currencies, but poorly against a relatively "stronger" USD;

3) Never make financial decisions based on emotional urges.

(Edit: resized chart to fit page)

Bought the Hatari HT-AP12 unit today at HomePro (Big C @ Super Hwy, Chiang Mai) - on special at 4888 Baht, with an extra HEPA filter and a medium-sized fan thrown in. Can comfirm that the ionizer function may be switched off through the remote control.

Please let us know what you think of it. I'm busy this weekend but may head to HomePro next week to pick one up.

Hard to tell so far, as I'm also running 24/7 a large a/c unit covered in 3M filtrete material which I change weekly under the current conditions.

After running both (a/c w/Filtrete & Hatari HT-AP12 filter) on and off for a couple of days, our initial impression is that whilst the Hatari unit seems to do a somewhat better job of filtering the air, the perceived air-quality difference between the two is minimal.

I would say that the Hatari's main advantage is in its lower running costs (electricity and longer-lasting HEPA filter), and quieter operation.

Since we need to run the a/c to cool the house, I find that the Hatari filter is practically redundant in our household. My guess is that it will probably sit there unused until I find a suitable use for it. Or, PM me if you have a need for a practically-new unit (with spare filter) at a discount.

I don't know about other people on this thread, but there is no way that my AC filters could be re-inserted into the unit after the 3M product was taped to it.

You may have to remove the Filtrete's plastic wrapping first.

Just got out the step ladder and checked my bedroom AC. I only had it on for about 6 weeks last year after I moved into this place. The filters are quite dark and need to be replaced. As Doi Suthep has disappeared from view, it seems it's that season again.

Well-worth 300baht or so and enough material for two changes. Got these at Home-Pro.

Even better-worth for the double package deal (enough for four filter changes) at 300 Baht. Got these from Sabai and Beyond (located at the Airport Central Plaza car park).

Can you explain the reason to use the ionizer or not to use it.

A good ioniser will charge the surrounding air with negatively-charged particles (good for health, think sea breeze), and neutralize positively-charged particles (think Chinook/Sharav/Levante desert winds which cause migraines) often generated by electronic equipment. This negatively charged air will force suspended particles in the air to become attracted to the nearest ground surface. Place the ioniser near any wall, and watch that surface turn black with very fine dust in no time.

However, ionisers depend on quality components to work as intended. For purity's sake the unit's high voltage output should ideally be stepped up smoothly (from 12/220v to around 6,000~10,000v DC) using transformers (expensive) rather than the cheap solid state circuitry universally found in appliances nowadays. The ioniser needles (discharge high voltage to surrounding air) should be constructed from a good-quality alloy and be super-sharp at all times, and replaced often as they wear out in a few months' use.

Unfortunately all ionisers also produce toxic ozone (O3) as a side-product, and more so with the cheaper inbuilt units which offer no viable way to change the ion discharge needles.

Bottom line given pros & cons of a modern cheap ioniser:

I would recommend switching it off as it's likely to do more harm than good, specially around young growing lungs.

"Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: Rayon (for absorbency),and dioxin (a chemical used in bleaching the products)."

Source

So your source is some space cadet folk singer?

C'mon, what is there not to trust about this source? After all, she can play the accordion in the snow!

Bought the Hatari HT-AP12 unit today at HomePro (Big C @ Super Hwy, Chiang Mai) - on special at 4888 Baht, with an extra HEPA filter and a medium-sized fan thrown in. Can comfirm that the ionizer function may be switched off through the remote control.

Please let us know what you think of it. I'm busy this weekend but may head to HomePro next week to pick one up.

Hard to tell so far, as I'm also running 24/7 a large a/c unit covered in 3M filtrete material which I change weekly under the current conditions. But in the meantime, peace of mind and morale has definitely improved in our household.

I'm about 60% certain that physical gold will be priced higher in USD terms by 1st March 2014.

Time for an update on that seasonal gold price (USD/oz & THB/10 Baht) prediction:

Thu 26th Dec 2013: $1,212.30/oz (฿18,700)

Lowest point: $1,202.30 on 31 Dec 2013 (฿18,750)

Mon 3rd Mar 2014: $1,350.30/oz (฿20,700)

2 month price gain: +11.4% (+44% pa)

Dont even think about it until it hits 15kbht-still trending down worldwide. Open a futures trading account and sell every time it hits 19k+.

Thanks Beau Thai and sound advise you have given

Ouch.

And that, my friend, is why you should never take any financial advice from the internet. And specially so from any anonymous amateur who talks about "worldwide prices".

Jose I can only speak for my unit which is the older model though there is a photo of the filter on the lavaza site.'

filter.jpg

This looks the same as mine.

the pre filter is a square of the black foamy plastic which fits in the cover and gets the big dust. It can be regularly washed.

THe filter package consists of several items in a paper box type construction.

1. paper like the microfibre fibre you put on airconditioners...

2 a honecomb type layer probably of similar material

3 not sure

4 a black carbon filter layer.

I am not sure about whether it is exactly the same. I think so but even if it is not Hatari are very good with spare parts.

THe filter should under general circumstances last a year of continual use. Mine run all day and night in chiangrai. Last year one filter lasted all the really bad smokey season and it was very very bad here. That means I will have used 2 a year and this is more than normal.

My strong suggestion is buy one....If the filter is the same no problems. If not you should get a years use from now so by then I am sure hatari will have sorted out the parts.

I know I sound as if I am trying to sell this. Not really. But I do know that if it was not for that filter I would either have been dead or retuned to Australia by now.

Thanks, Harry.

Bought the Hatari HT-AP12 unit today at HomePro (Big C @ Super Hwy, Chiang Mai) - on special at 4888 Baht, with an extra HEPA filter and a medium-sized fan thrown in. Can comfirm that the ionizer function may be switched off through the remote control.

Shit happens.

"Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: Rayon (for absorbency),and dioxin (a chemical used in bleaching the products)."

Source

The Hatari air purifier at 5000 baht or so has a big HEPA cartridge which can be replaced for 500 baht and is available. Many of the fancier ones do not have as efficeint a filter and also do not have replacement filters available.

Not a case of you get what you pay for.

Where can this be purchased and how large a room will it keep clean? I'd like to eliminate my annual burning season cough.

I bought mine originally at BigC but they are not that reliable a supplier. I suggest ringing http://www.hatari.co.th/en and asking them as they were quite helpful in telling us where to buy replacement filters. http://www.hatari.co.th/en/products/air-cleaner/ht-ap12.html should help. run it through google translate if you need to.

I have very severe COPD and live in Chiangrai and even in the bad season last year had no trouble as long as I stayed inside. Outside 5 minutes was often enough to floor me. I run them all the time.

not sure if this is allowed so mods delete if needed. http://www.lazada.co.th/hatari-ht-ap12-30-32-149439.html

Harry, are the pre & HEPA filters separate cartridges in your HT-AP12 unit?

We've just called the Hatari distributors in Bangkok, and one woman told us the HEPA filter is a separate unit, currently available at 598 Baht each. The second guy we talked to told us the four filters are all combined into one unit, and are not yet available (888 Baht) as spare parts.

I looked at the hitari one but as you can't turn the ionizer off it was a show stopper for me (due to possible ozone emission and having a baby)

From The Journal of Experimental Medicine (JEM):

1. The inhalation of formaldehyde gas in even small quantities is followed by bronchitis and pneumonia. Pneumonia is due to the inhalation of the gas and not to secondary infection.

2. Formalin belongs to that rare group of poisons which are capable of producing death suddenly when swallowed.

3. ...16

Doi Suthep National Park - beautiful nearby pine forest with nice bungalows.

Location here