Late Salary Payment and other advise needed

[W2Wang]

anyway.. there are many weird replies here. I got a handful of helpful advise and i thank you for all the constructive advise from helpful folks. no further comments to the rest.

[blackcab]

On 05/09/2017 at 1:00 PM, johnnybangkok said:

This process will cover you legally but has to be done in this order.

 

I can assure you it won't. If you give a verbal and then a written warning then dismiss an employee they will be able to take you to Labour Court and get a maximum payout.

 

I speak from experience. One worker I fired cost my employer well over 100,000 baht in compensation. I really thought I had it well covered aswell.

[johnnybangkok]

12 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

I can assure you it won't. If you give a verbal and then a written warning then dismiss an employee they will be able to take you to Labour Court and get a maximum payout.

 

I speak from experience. One worker I fired cost my employer well over 100,000 baht in compensation. I really thought I had it well covered aswell.

Then may I suggest it was either unrelated to this or you did something wrong.

I run a multi-million dollar business here in Thailand and currently employ 50 Thai staff. I have had 3 tribunals in my 6 years here and have won every single one of them by following UK based HR practices (which are fairly bullet proof). All the staff who took us to a tribunal had been given a verbal warning to start with (witnessed by my HR lady), and when things didn't improve in the very clear time scales clearly outlined, a written warning was issued with again clear instructions for improvement and clear timescales to do it in. Granted none of my cases were regarding lateness and more to do with an inability to do the job/lack of sales but I think the principles remain the same. On all 3 occasions, the tribunal ruled in our favour and in one case the 'judge' actually complimented us on having such clear and concise HR policies, a well written contract of employment and a good staff handbook. 

It's not that difficult and if you are a serious business person, absolutely essential.       

[blackcab]

@johnnybangkok I work for one of the top 100 companies in Thailand. 

 

I fired a staff member for disobeying direct written instructions from their manager. The person I fired was in charge of purchasing for their department and did deals with suppliers to earn kickbacks at the company's expense. They were given a written list of authorised suppliers and they repeatedly ordered stock from more expensive competitors.

 

I gave a verbal warning and we had four disciplinaries. Everything was witnessed, recorded and signed, to the same standard as I would do things in the UK.

 

After dismissal the employee went to Labour Court and won. My mistake was that I didn't give them three warnings for exactly the same offence. I gave warnings for each specific act, not repeated warnings for the same act three times.

 

What I learned from that experience is that it's sometimes cheaper to fire someone on the spot and pay up if the Labour Court orders it later. This individual was earning much more than their salary in commissions, and it turned out it wasn't the first company they had done this to.

 

I also learned that next time I needed to get the Labour Court involved at the beginning, not the end. We hardly ever dismiss staff and our HR just hasn't got the specialist skills in this area. 

[johnnybangkok]

49 minutes ago, blackcab said:

@johnnybangkok I work for one of the top 100 companies in Thailand. 

 

I fired a staff member for disobeying direct written instructions from their manager. The person I fired was in charge of purchasing for their department and did deals with suppliers to earn kickbacks at the company's expense. They were given a written list of authorised suppliers and they repeatedly ordered stock from more expensive competitors.

 

I gave a verbal warning and we had four disciplinaries. Everything was witnessed, recorded and signed, to the same standard as I would do things in the UK.

 

After dismissal the employee went to Labour Court and won. My mistake was that I didn't give them three warnings for exactly the same offence. I gave warnings for each specific act, not repeated warnings for the same act three times.

 

What I learned from that experience is that it's sometimes cheaper to fire someone on the spot and pay up if the Labour Court orders it later. This individual was earning much more than their salary in commissions, and it turned out it wasn't the first company they had done this to.

 

I also learned that next time I needed to get the Labour Court involved at the beginning, not the end. We hardly ever dismiss staff and our HR just hasn't got the specialist skills in this area. 

Don't get me wrong, these tribunals will always look for a reason to judge in favour of the disgruntled employee (which I have always thought was particularly unfair) but by your own admission there were mistakes made and you unfortunately paid the price for them. It's also a bit of a worry that working for one of the top 100 companies in Thailand, you don't have a competent enough HR team to handle these sort of things (along with Legal, it is after all their job). I run a recruitment company and deal constantly with HR and with a few exceptions, I am always astounded at how bad some of them are. I'm fortunate that my HR lady is European so makes sure that we do everything by the book, but I can see how these things can go the other way, just by some simple omissions or mistakes made.     

[blackcab]

@johnnybangkok The only other time the company dismissed people was when a theft ring was found at one of the plants. The culprits had found a way to manipulate the scale on a weighbridge. They were randomly and slightly under weighing a few vehicles a day that were delivering bulk goods. They kept a tally of the difference, which was stolen at a convenient time.

 

They were caught in the act after one of their number had a disagreement with them and informed on them.

 

The police weren't interested and the workers won unfair dismissal through a procedural error.

[greenchair]

Your always late employee will go an further everyday until eventually you are paying a lot and getting nothing. Look around for a replacement and let the latey lady know you are downsizing. 

At the risk of getting a tv beating, in my opinion the plump and ugly ladies always do a better job. 

The pretty ladies usually do just that. Look pretty.