Sweden to deport 106-year-old Afghan woman

[webfact]

Sweden to deport 106-year-old Afghan woman

David Keyton

 

Hova: A 106-year-old Afghan woman who made a perilous journey to Europe, carried by her son and grandson, is facing deportation from Sweden after her asylum application was rejected.

 

Bibihal Uzbeki is severely disabled and can barely speak. Her family has appealed the rejection.

 

Their journey made headlines in 2015, when they were part of a huge influx of people who came to Europe from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries. They travelled by foot and on trains through the Balkans before finally reaching Sweden.

 

Full story:  http://www.smh.com.au/world/sweden-to-deport-106yearold-afghan-woman-20170904-gyasmk

 

-- The Sydney Morning Herald 2017-09-05

[Andaman Al]

It seems crazy when you look at all the young male refugees causing big problems in Sweden right now. Are they getting rid of this woman on principle because all her relatives would then be entitled to join her? At 106 I imagine she has quite a few. All very sad, humanity is the loser.

[tonray]

33 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

It seems crazy when you look at all the young male refugees causing big problems in Sweden right now. Are they getting rid of this woman on principle because all her relatives would then be entitled to join her? At 106 I imagine she has quite a few. All very sad, humanity is the loser.

This is a concession to the right wing there. Similar to Trump considering cancelling the DACA act here. 

[12DrinkMore]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

It seems crazy when you look at all the young male refugees causing big problems in Sweden right now. Are they getting rid of this woman on principle because all her relatives would then be entitled to join her? At 106 I imagine she has quite a few. All very sad, humanity is the loser.

 

She has not been singled out, except by the press.

 

All her family has been given deportation orders, but they are appealing against them. She is also appealling.

 

Just because they do not want to live in a dump called Afghanistan should not give them the right to simply upsticks and expect another country to fund their existence, and their descendants, and then the next generation from taxpayers' earnings.  Afghanistan may not be the residence of choice, but it is not the unsafe place for islamic native Afghans they would like us to believe.

 

 

[Blue Muton]

13 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

She has not been singled out, except by the press.

Agreed.

 

All her family has been given deportation orders, but they are appealing against them. She is also appealling.

Agreed.

 

Just because they do not want to live in a dump called Afghanistan should not give them the right to simply upsticks and expect another country to fund their existence, and their descendants, and then the next generation from taxpayers' earnings.

 

Agreed, but of course all independent studies have shown that overall, migrants contribute more than they are paid out (certainly in the case of the UK). Additionally, you would be living in a "dump" if your country had been ripped apart by successive wars over three or four decades, unless, of course you decided to seek refuge elsewhere.

 

 Afghanistan may not be the residence of choice, but it is not the unsafe place for islamic native Afghans they would like us to believe.

 

It is complete nonsense to suggest that Afghanistan is anything other than an unsafe place to live. 

 

Civilian and overall casualties (2017)

The UN estimates that 1,662 civilians were killed from January through June 2017.  The Taliban attacked a hospital and killed over 50 patients and staff.  

 

 

2015	2015 Park Palace guesthouse attack 2015 Kabul Parliament attack Khost suicide bombing Jalalabad suicide bombing August 2015 Kabul attacks 10 August 2015 Kabul suicide attack 22 August 2015 Kabul suicide attack Ghazni prison escape Battle of Kunduz  Kunduz hospital airstrike   Kandahar Airport attack 2015 Spanish Embassy attack in Kabul
2016	February 2016 Kabul bombing Nangarhar Offensive (2016) 2016 Jalalabad suicide bombing Operation Omari Kabul NDS building Kunduz-Takhar highway hostage crisis Kabul Canadian Embassy convoy bombing Wardak Province bombing Kabul Hazara protest bombing Kabul Northgate Hotel bombing Jani Khel offensive Kabul American University siege Kabul Defense Ministry bombing Battle of Tarinkot (2016) Battle of Kunduz (2016) Battle of Boz Qandahari Mazar-i-Sharif German consulate attack Bagram Airfield bombing Kabul Shia mosque bombing
2017	10 January 2017 Afghanistan bombings February 2017 Afghanistan's Supreme Court in Kabul attack 2017 Sangin airstrike March 2017 Kabul attack 2017 Nangarhar airstrike 2017 Camp Shaheen attack May 2017 Kabul attack June 2017 Kabul attack 2017 Herat bombing June 2017 Kabul mosque attack 2017 Lashkargah bombing Iraqi embassy attack Herat mosque attack

 

[topt]

9 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

but of course all independent studies have shown that overall, migrants contribute more than they are paid out (certainly in the case of the UK).

Interesting - can you provide some recent links to support that please?

[FreddieRoyle]

 I can't see the problem here. If Sweden was the 1st "safe" country she set foot on after fleeing the war zone, then she must be allowed to remain, as per European law.

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, topt said:

Interesting - can you provide some recent links to support that please?

Really, you can't find that for yourself?

[Blue Muton]

4 minutes ago, topt said:

Interesting - can you provide some recent links to support that please?

.....but just in case you're genuinely struggling with whatever search engine you use:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigration-uk-economy-what-are-the-benefits-stats-theresa-may-amber-rudd-tory-conference-speeches-a7346121.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/07/eu-immigrants-vital-uk-economy-cbi-warns/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/18/mass-eu-migration-into-britain-is-actually-good-news-for-uk-economy

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

[dick dasterdly]

37 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

She has not been singled out, except by the press.

 

All her family has been given deportation orders, but they are appealing against them. She is also appealling.

 

Just because they do not want to live in a dump called Afghanistan should not give them the right to simply upsticks and expect another country to fund their existence, and their descendants, and then the next generation from taxpayers' earnings.  Afghanistan may not be the residence of choice, but it is not the unsafe place for islamic native Afghans they would like us to believe.

 

 

The story begins to make sense.

 

Family are using v old relative for the 'sympathy vote' so that they can 'cling to her skirts' - and also be allowed to stay.

[i claudius]

Go back to the first safe country.problem solved

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Go back to the first safe country.problem solved

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The family has been screened out and denied refugee status.   There is no first country to return to.   The next destination is Afghanistan.   It's sad, but that's how it works.  

 

Sweden could allow the old lady to stay on humanitarian grounds, but that would not extend to the remainder of her family.  

 

Since they have appealed, there could be at least one less person on the trip back, given her age and the length of the appeal process.  

 

[topt]

6 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

.....but just in case you're genuinely struggling with whatever search engine you use:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigration-uk-economy-what-are-the-benefits-stats-theresa-may-amber-rudd-tory-conference-speeches-a7346121.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/07/eu-immigrants-vital-uk-economy-cbi-warns/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/18/mass-eu-migration-into-britain-is-actually-good-news-for-uk-economy

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Thanks for the links. Supposing that you were not being disingenuous in some way take it as a learning experience that if you make statements like that it is always good to back them up in some way.........

 

Interesting in quickly perusing most of the links the evidence is mainly positive about EU migrants. It would be useful (although probably too soon) to see the effects from migrants specifically from Africa and the Middle East for example (in the last 5-10 years). I suspect, but have no evidence, that it may tell a different story.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Scott said:

The family has been screened out and denied refugee status.   There is no first country to return to.   The next destination is Afghanistan.   It's sad, but that's how it works.  

 

Sweden could allow the old lady to stay on humanitarian grounds, but that would not extend to the remainder of her family.  

 

Since they have appealed, there could be at least one less person on the trip back, given her age and the length of the appeal process.  

 

The assumption is that the 11 family members that dragged this VERY old lady from Afghanistan to Sweden, stopped in other countries before eventually arriving in Sweden.  We know they 'set foot' in Iran, where presumably they would have been safe?

 

But I agree with your 2nd para - "Sweden could allow the old lady to stay on humanitarian grounds, but that would not extend to the remainder of her family. "

[Scott]

They may have been in countless safe countries.   I don't know, but at this point it is moot.   Sweden has screened them and found them not eligible for asylum.   Sweden is not know for being a particular difficult country to gain refugee status, so I suspect they would not have any better luck in any other country.  

 

[i claudius]

They may have been in countless safe countries.   I don't know, but at this point it is moot.   Sweden has screened them and found them not eligible for asylum.   Sweden is not know for being a particular difficult country to gain refugee status, so I suspect they would not have any better luck in any other country.  
 

Then Afghanistan it is . Sorry for the old girl but its her familys problem no one elses

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Ulic]

51 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Agreed, but of course all independent studies have shown that overall, migrants contribute more than they are paid out (certainly in the case of the UK).

This may well be true and I see you have provided links, however

I very much doubt a 106 year old lady who does not speak the

language would contribute more than they are paid out plus

the cost of her health care etc...etc. I know the statement says

overall, but decisions are made individually on whether someone

can stay or not.

[nontabury]

20 minutes ago, Scott said:

The family has been screened out and denied refugee status.   There is no first country to return to.   The next destination is Afghanistan.   It's sad, but that's how it works.  

 

Sweden could allow the old lady to stay on humanitarian grounds, but that would not extend to the remainder of her family.  

 

Since they have appealed, there could be at least one less person on the trip back, given her age and the length of the appeal process.  

 

I Think he was referring to the FIRST country that she and her relatives arrived in.

[Blue Muton]

16 minutes ago, topt said:

Thanks for the links. Supposing that you were not being disingenuous in some way take it as a learning experience that if you make statements like that it is always good to back them up in some way.........

 

Interesting in quickly perusing most of the links the evidence is mainly positive about EU migrants. It would be useful (although probably too soon) to see the effects from migrants specifically from Africa and the Middle East for example (in the last 5-10 years). I suspect, but have no evidence, that it may tell a different story.

Cheers, yes, most of the recent data is about immigrants from the EU, which is understandable as there was a referendum going on - not that it makes the reports any more relevant to non EU migrants, refugees or asylum seekers.

 

 

Firstly, for the record, whilst I have every sympathy for these poor people who have been bombed to shit for so long, my sympathy ends at the point they first reach a safe haven or are invited to a particular country. I don't share the view that everybody should have the right to live in whichever country they choose.  Perhaps that's ok as an ideal but is simply not achievable or desirable IMO.

 

When it comes to the UK, asylum seekers are not allowed to work whilst their applications and any subsequent appeals are being considered. Thus there is no doubt that this particular group would be a net cost. This situation is, of course ENTIRELY the responsibility of UK governments. IMO the policy is completely bonkers when most people are forced to live in "austerity" and among the asylum seekers are nurses, doctors etc for whom we a crying out and who are desperate to work. The sad thing is that many people would blame the asylum seekers, the EU, the UN or all of the aforementioned, rather than the people who they voted for.

 

[Ulic]

43 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

.....but just in case you're genuinely struggling with whatever search engine you use:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigration-uk-economy-what-are-the-benefits-stats-theresa-may-amber-rudd-tory-conference-speeches-a7346121.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/07/eu-immigrants-vital-uk-economy-cbi-warns/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/18/mass-eu-migration-into-britain-is-actually-good-news-for-uk-economy

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Just a note, all these articles are about migrants from Europe.

None discus the contributions of refugees from third world

countries who do not speak the language, are mostly uneducated

and who do not share common values, in respect to their contribution

verses the government support they receive.

[Blue Muton]

15 minutes ago, Ulic said:

This may well be true and I see you have provided links, however

I very much doubt a 106 year old lady who does not speak the

language would contribute more than they are paid out plus

the cost of her health care etc...etc. I know the statement says

overall, but decisions are made individually on whether someone

can stay or not.

Quite. see my above reply #19.

 

The same could be said of anybody unable or unwilling to work.

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, topt said:

Interesting - can you provide some recent links to support that please?

A great deal depends on geography and on government immigration policies.

 

In the case of Europe, geography makes having a sensible immigration policy very difficult for all the obvious reasons - proximity to Third World countries & poverty & war, few natural barriers to illegal immigration ...

 

But the Europeans' lack of sensible policies, only now being addressed, has made matters worse. Sensible countries like Australia & Canada have had 'points' systems in place for many years. These ensure that MOST of your migrants (but not refugees) have a reasonable capacity to integrate into your society & economy (facility with the language, education & skills, health ... ). Only now are the European politicians & bureaucrats looking at these examples of how to do immigration business in the huge multi-dimensional modern world.

[Esso49]

Her and her extended family should never have been allowed into Europe in the first place,   exactly why all of them,  including her have had their asylum requests rejected.

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, tonray said:

Similar to Trump considering cancelling the DACA act here. 

Please stop talking about Trump .

Every thread seems to get turned into a Trump thread

[12DrinkMore]

5 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

 

 

There have been, on average, 600 killings and twice that number of injured every year in southern Thailand for the last 15 years or so.

 

So in the time frame roughly 300 killed in southern Thailand through islam, and 1600 across the whole of Afghanistan.

 

Proportionately southern Thailand is way more dangerous than Afghanistan.

[12DrinkMore]

5 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Agreed, but of course all independent studies have shown that overall, migrants contribute more than they are paid out (certainly in the case of the UK).

 

As has already been pointed out, EU migrants have a positive contribution to society. They are western, educated and working.

 

The predominantly islamic refugees are uneducated, unskilled and unwilling to integrate.

Germany has a huge issue with ghettoes of these refugees, who maraud around the streets in gangs of young men. There is no work for them.

[Blue Muton]

7 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

There have been, on average, 600 killings and twice that number of injured every year in southern Thailand for the last 15 years or so.

 

So in the time frame roughly 300 killed in southern Thailand through islam, and 1600 across the whole of Afghanistan.

 

Proportionately southern Thailand is way more dangerous than Afghanistan.

Do you have a degree in irrelevance? Or perhaps I'm too thick to work out how southern Thailand being dangerous makes Afghanistan any safer. Perhaps you can explain that.

 

You do know that the trouble in the south is about ethnicity rather than religion, surely?

[Briggsy]

She is not 106.

[LammyTS1]

She must be a spritely youthful 106 years of age, if she was even willing to travel thousands of miles on ground, let alone manage the journey!

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

There have been, on average, 600 killings and twice that number of injured every year in southern Thailand for the last 15 years or so.

 

So in the time frame roughly 300 killed in southern Thailand through islam, and 1600 across the whole of Afghanistan.

 

Proportionately southern Thailand is way more dangerous than Afghanistan.

The number you quote for Afghanistan is 'only' for civilian deaths, not the total number of deaths on all sides throughout the country due to armed conflict. As a speculative comment there would be a lot of unreported civilian deaths in Afghanistan e.g. ethnic cleansing

 

if you're interested in the deep South, which is Off Topic,  have a read of...

 

http://www.defence.gov.au/ADC/Publications/Shedden/2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf