The Thai Government Says I Must Go Away.

[papakapbaan]

I have been a tourist, legally, for most of the seventeen years. But I know that, even as a tourist, I have no **right** to be here. They say "go", I have to go, and I will go.

But practically for now: are you on visa free entries and unable to get "back to back" tourist visas or NON-O visas?

(Single entry in S-E Asia and Multiple entry at "friendly" consulates like Hull/UK or US consulates for ex.?)

Sorry if I am just curious and not aware of some parameters in your situation.

[Phil Conners]

Unfortunately what they fail to realise is that Thailand is a developing country and one day it will be fully developed along with full implementation of the laws, as they are written now, intended now, or not written now but likely to be written in the future, as Thailand gets up to speed with other countries.

That nonsense again... Stop making excuses for stupid and pointless laws.

My wife, our daugher and I lived for over 10 years in several west-european countries and NEVER had visa hassle like this.

We applied for and got visa for her, which automatically gave residence permit, work permit, no treatment as criminal on parole checking in every 90 days, no minimum so much money in the bank or so much income to be proven. Nothing.

We only went here because my wife was missing Thailand. I have no wish to stay here, I really couldn't care less, there are a lot of other countries I would prefer to stay in, I am only here to make my wife happy. If they screw enough with the conditions we'll leave again. Too many nice places to live in the world to put up with this.

[AndyCanfield]

But practically for now: are you on visa free entries and unable to get "back to back" tourist visas or NON-O visas?

(Single entry in S-E Asia and Multiple entry at "friendly" consulates like Hull/UK or US consulates for ex.?)

I Vientiane last April I got a non-O because of my son, another in August. In November Savannakhet told me that that was not correct, and later Bangkok confirmed it was wrong. The non-O was not justified because mommy and I are divorced. So in November I got the usual 60+30 tourist visa. At that time they told me that I could get two more next year (presumably February and May) and after that, it's "Hit the road, Jack".

I've been living on "back to back" tourist visas for most of my seventeen years; sometimes 30 days on entry, mostly 60 + 30 extension. I didn't need any special justifications for tourist visas. Now that is prohibited, and non-immigrant visas require special excuses that I don't seem to fit.

[Mai Krap]

But practically for now: are you on visa free entries and unable to get "back to back" tourist visas or NON-O visas?

(Single entry in S-E Asia and Multiple entry at "friendly" consulates like Hull/UK or US consulates for ex.?)

I Vientiane last April I got a non-O because of my son, another in August. In November Savannakhet told me that that was not correct, and later Bangkok confirmed it was wrong. The non-O was not justified because mommy and I are divorced. So in November I got the usual 60+30 tourist visa. At that time they told me that I could get two more next year (presumably February and May) and after that, it's "Hit the road, Jack".

I've been living on "back to back" tourist visas for most of my seventeen years; sometimes 30 days on entry, mostly 60 + 30 extension. I didn't need any special justifications for tourist visas. Now that is prohibited, and non-immigrant visas require special excuses that I don't seem to fit.

Have you been denied a 60 day 1,000 baht tourist visa in Laos?

[rainman]

ok, it seems to be that:

1. either you're a troll.

2. if you're serious. your problem is not the visa, your problem is depression and lack of motivation. you have 3 children, a grandma, a grandpa and a woman you're staying with for 17 years. get married! if for whatever reason you don't want to get married. get 3x 30 day visas, then a 90 day tourist visa and repeat. it works if you do it right.

nobody is prohibiting back to back visas. all they prohibit are more than 3 back to back 30 day visas and more than 2 or 3 tourist visas per year. get this:

January-February 30 days visa

February-March 30 days visa

March-April 30 days visa

April-July 60+30 days tourist visa

July-August 30 days visa

August-September 30 days visa

September-October 30 days visa

October-January 60+30 days visa

are you breaking any regulations with this? no. it clearly states you can't get more than 3x 30 days visas per 6 months. and you're not. and you can't get more than 2-3 tourist visas per year. and you're not. what's so difficult about the new regulations?

and surely the thai government has carefully planned these 3x30 days per 6 months and other regulations so that people can still stay all year around on tourist visas, but they need to get out of the country for more than 2 hours every now and then and pay for a visa, not just hop on a visa bus.

so ..are you still depressed or feeling better?

[LoveDaBlues]

When I read stuff like this it's the only time I'm glad to be 50. Of course, the rules could change and then I'm out too!

Hope Andy can find a 'workaround' to this tangled mess!

[bkkandrew]

I have no legal right to be in Thailand; I have never had any legal right to be in Thailand. But the past seventeen years I have been allowed to live in Thailand and love the Thai people. I learned to sing the nation anthem because the government allowed me to live here with the people I love. Now I must find a new song to sing; The Thai government says I must go away.

So why don't you get married and get legal? You've said that you lived here for the last seventeen years illegally, so why is it the Thai authorities fault that you have to leave? Can you answer those two questions for me please? I cant really take this seriously.

The guy was online when I posted my question, now he's not. Why are you answering it for him? There's more to this than meets the eye. He has started a debate that really has only two possible viewpoints and one inevitable conclusion.

I was online a few minutes ago and typing my reply when the page disappeared. To err is human, to really screw up is computer.

I have been a tourist, legally, for most of the seventeen years. But I know that, even as a tourist, I have no **right** to be here. They say "go", I have to go, and I will go.

If you speak of the letter of the law, then I was a legal tourist according to the letter of the law. If you speak of the spirit of the law, then supporting a Thai family counts to the spirit of the law.

I posted here for two reasons. First, I think that there are a lot of farangs in Thailand in similar situations. The blanket concept that all permanent tourists are bad is incorrect.

The second reason is that I suspect the immigration police monitor this web site. I'm not asking for help for me. I'm asking for help for all the families of the "permanent tourists". How many farang men support a lady and her parents and maybe a leftover child from her earlier mistake? How many Thai citizens are directly and immediately benefitting from a "permanent tourist" living here?

There is no question in my mind that my presence here in Thailand has been and is of benefit to the Thai people and to the Thai nation. I would be ashamed if that were not true. But the immigration police do not seem to consider that factor at all. I could probably come up with a petition signed by every policeman in my Thai home town, asking that I be allowed to stay, but that too is irrelevant.

I hope that this post will cause some thinking in the right places. The law does not apply to my situation. WHY NOT? If I am bad, throw me out - please. If I am good, then the law is flawed. For the sake of our in-laws and girlfriends and children and friends, please fix it.

Robski should read your post and re-read your original OP...

And then hang his head in shame...

[britmaveric]

Rain - very good summary!!

[tamaique]

Perhaps some version of Rainman's post should be pinned so that everyone can read it, unless there's some law I'm not taking into consideration.

I didn't know you couldn't get more than 2 or 3 tourist visas, I'm still not sure that there's any restriction there. To the best of my knowledge you could keep getting tourist visas indefinitely. Four 60+30 visas in a year (well every 360 days) doesn't sound like such a bad solution. Plus you can always live on 1 year passports so no one complains about the number of stamps on your passport (if that were the case).

Either way, the VOA, tourist visa combination sounds like a perfect solution.

I would meanwhile try to find a more permanent solution in case they change things again, but for those of you that really want to stay, the price difference will not make that much of a difference.

By the way, if anyone is interested to know the new validity of tourist visas for your specific nationality, check out the attachment I posted a few days ago (for me it went from 60 days to 30 days) but still able to extend by 1 month at immigration.

[rainman]

i made a dedicated post with my solution. its up to you guys to keep it up top from what i heard, some people were reporting that some embassies are stamping the passports of frequent tourist visa (60+30 days) runners with a note that says "frequent blah blah, may be refused a visa at this embassy in the future". so its best to keep it as low as possible. but 2 per year shouldnt be a problem.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I live with Chaliew. If we were married, I would be required to take care of her, and I could get a visa to allow me to take care of her. But we are not married, so I am not required to take care of her. Although I do indeed take care of her, the Thai government says I must go away.

So why don't you get married and get legal? You've said that you lived here for the last seventeen years illegally, so why is it the Thai authorities fault that you have to leave? Can you answer those two questions for me please? I cant really take this seriously.

A fair enough question IMHO.

[simon43]

Well, I'll be one of the first to criticise!

You have been living in LoS for 17 years using a tourist visa, but you were not a tourist. This arguement has been done to death on TV, but the bottom line is that a tourist visa is for tourists, not for people who live in LoS with their family.

Why on earth did you not try to make your visa position more secure? You had 17 years to sort this out!

I do sympathise with your current position, but don't put all the blame on the Thai authorities.

Rainman has proposed a reasonable solution.

Good luck

Simon

[AndyCanfield]

Have you been denied a 60 day 1,000 baht tourist visa in Laos?

Yes. Last April at the Thai consulate in VIentiane. The guy was sympathetic enough that we figured out I could get a non-O because of my son. But the immigration police in Bangkok have since declared that is incorrect. When divorced, the "right to take care of the child" goes to the mother, and not the father.

And last April in Vientiane (months before October 2006) there were many people there who were being denied tourist visas on the grounds that they already had too many tourist visas in their passports. I forget whether the third was denied, or whether three already meant the fourth was denied. But it was a low number, and it shocked and confused many standing in line there.

[AndyCanfield]

nobody is prohibiting back to back visas. all they prohibit are more than 3 back to back 30 day visas and more than 2 or 3 tourist visas per year. get this:

January-February 30 days visa

February-March 30 days visa

March-April 30 days visa

April-July 60+30 days tourist visa

July-August 30 days visa

August-September 30 days visa

September-October 30 days visa

October-January 60+30 days visa

are you breaking any regulations with this? no. it clearly states you can't get more than 3x 30 days visas per 6 months. and you're not. and you can't get more than 2-3 tourist visas per year. and you're not. what's so difficult about the new regulations?

and surely the thai government has carefully planned these 3x30 days per 6 months and other regulations so that people can still stay all year around on tourist visas, but they need to get out of the country for more than 2 hours every now and then and pay for a visa, not just hop on a visa bus.

so ..are you still depressed or feeling better?

I personally wondered about this approach: A 60 day tourist visa with 30 day extension, then a 30 day visa on arrival, then another 90, then 30, then 90, 30, 90, etc. In theory one could go indefinitely without ever having any back-to-back visas of the same type.

However, I doubt if they would let one get away with that. It obviously contradicts the intent of the regulations.

About ten years ago I was denied a 60 day tourist visa in Hong Kong. The Thai consular officer scolded me for having too many tourist visas already. I went to the U.S. embassy in Hong Kong and got a new passport, entered Thailand on a 30 day permission, then went to Vieniane and got the 60 day there.

The consulate staff, the immigration police, are human beings, not computers. A consular official has the authority to say "NO!", and they have, and they will.

Thank you all for your input.

[taxexile]

When we got back, they sprung it on us: "Oh, by the way, it's also going to cost you three hundred thousand baht." I told them that I did not have three hundred thousand baht, and if I did, I would give it to her and she'd buy rice fields. Freaked out the immigration police.

with an attitude like that , and your penchant for penning cloying syrupy open letters in the hope of eliciting sympathy from immigration officials and others it would appear to me that you have learnt very little from your seventeen years in thailand.

whilst it would be a sad situation if you had to leave your family , there are many ways to work around these regulations , a lot of good advice has ben given to you , and rainmans post seemed to suss you out too.

stop wallowing in pity , playing the victim , and drowning in negativity and do something positive to change your situation , or your family will be the ones to suffer as you sit around blaming the world for your problems.

[LifeConvo]

How can you be here for 17 years and claim to be a tourist?

[mouse]

The second reason is that I suspect the immigration police monitor this web site. I'm not asking for help for me. I'm asking for help for all the families of the "permanent tourists". How many farang men support a lady and her parents and maybe a leftover child from her earlier mistake? How many Thai citizens are directly and immediately benefitting from a "permanent tourist" living here?

I believe that they do monitor this site from time to time. Question is.....are they on now?

I have the following suggestions for Andy:

1.) Have one of your chidlren (proably your son's) custody awarded to you, by a competent court, which will make you eligible to get the visa. Surely the mother will assist in this matter in exchange for a small amount in continued financial support. The fact that the child physically remains with the mother should not be a problem. This will make Andy eligible for a support type Visa.

or

2.) Get married. With so many lovely ladies out there, that should not be a problem.

or

3.) Spend some time here and then some time in Cambodia or Laos, returning here peridocially.

or

4.) Start an Amity company with work permit and Visa and run some type of operation here.

or

5.) Become a School teacher at a local school or University. An excellent solution since your Thai is flawless, your are a University Graduate and you have the contacts to find the job.

or

6.) Become an accredited volunteer with a foreign aid or other agency that will give you Visa rights.

or

7.) Get a job with a large foreign corporation that operates in LOS.

I have found in life "that if there is a will there is a way". I know Andy to be a very intelligent person that will surely prevail. His act of crying out on the behalf of the many, that are affected by these spontaneous rules, not so thought out, or incomplete in many ways, is a noble act on the behalf of all of those affected.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring, they may change the rules and send away the husbands and employees that meet the present requirements. There is little security for the affected, nor any continuity, in the way these rules are made, enforced or changed, is what I think Andy is trying to say.

By the way, I suspect that Andy is still working off a dialup line which explains him posting and then leaving the forum shortly thereafter. No! he is not a troll, I know this person, this is a real story. A unique story that deserves to be looked at.

Oh there is one more option for Andy ..... write a book about your many years here in LOS. Surely to be a best seller. I would be more than glad to provide for low cost publishing of such a project.

[AndyCanfield]

When we got back, they sprung it on us: "Oh, by the way, it's also going to cost you three hundred thousand baht." I told them that I did not have three hundred thousand baht, and if I did, I would give it to her and she'd buy rice fields. Freaked out the immigration police.

I wasn't upset by the three hundred thousand baht, I was pissed off that they hadn't told us about it before hand. If they had, I would not have taken her to Vientiane. We laid out money, and time, which was wasted because they only told us half of the story. Jump through a hoop, and what you usually find on the other side is another hoop, a higher hoop. Jump through that higher hoop, and, well, you know what comes next. Another hoop. At some point you stop jumping.

Recently the visa regulations have been posted on the Intenet, I forget where, in English. This is a good step. The next time I'm in an immigration office I should ask for a printed copy. ALL the regulations, not just the ones that some officer thinks apply to me.

The immigration officer in room 103 freaked out because of a mis-match in our perspectives. Her attitude seemed to be "I am a police officer, you must obey me." My attitude was "You're selling various kinds of visas, how much do they cost, which kind do I want to buy?" The price of the annual renewable spousal visa got too high, so I decided not to buy one. I remember her jumping up and screaming "THE RULES ARE THE SAME FOR EVERYONE!" and marching out of the room. Everyone was staring at her.

Thank you for your constructive advice.

[cdnvic]

nobody is prohibiting back to back visas. all they prohibit are more than 3 back to back 30 day visas and more than 2 or 3 tourist visas per year. get this:

January-February 30 days visa

February-March 30 days visa

March-April 30 days visa

April-July 60+30 days tourist visa

July-August 30 days visa

August-September 30 days visa

September-October 30 days visa

October-January 60+30 days visa

However, I doubt if they would let one get away with that. It obviously contradicts the intent of the regulations.

Now you worry about contradicting the intent of the visa regulations? You are in a situation of your own making. No doubt others have warned you in the past to fix this but your couldn't get your act together and do it so now you have put your family at risk and are still making excuses when someone is offering you a solution.

Do yourself and your family a favour and do everything you can to straighten out your visa situation before your son faces life without a father. With that in his future you should be working your ass off to fix this and not wasting time feeling sorry for yourself with melodramatic letters.

No, I'm not one of those who are going to pat you on the back and tell you it's not your fault, I think you've made enough excuses over the years, and if you don't fix things soon your family faces a much more difficult time than you ever will.

So stop blaming the Thai government. You can't do anything about that. Find a way to work within the system, and make sure you're there to take care of those kids.

[rainman]

However, I doubt if they would let one get away with that. It obviously contradicts the intent of the regulations.

About ten years ago I was denied a 60 day tourist visa in Hong Kong....

Are you going to live forever on the assumption that something is going to happen or something is not going to work and what then? If so, you may as well stay at home all your life because if you go out, a car might hit you. Or better yet, stay in bed all your life, because otherwise you might break your foot if you get out of bed.

10 years ago you were denied a 60 days tourist visa in HK. What a terrible excuse.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you need a doctor, not a visa advisor. For every working scenario, you're making out an excuse.

Edited January 9, 2007 by rainman

[ttthailand]

i made a dedicated post with my solution. its up to you guys to keep it up top from what i heard, some people were reporting that some embassies are stamping the passports of frequent tourist visa (60+30 days) runners with a note that says "frequent blah blah, may be refused a visa at this embassy in the future". so its best to keep it as low as possible. but 2 per year shouldnt be a problem.

I normally only read these pages to get information. Today I felt it necessary to give a little back. I too may be about to have a problem with the Thai system due to these visa changes.

I have been in Thailand for 12 years. Eleven of those year I owned a Thai Company that did international business. 90 % of the millions of Baht made by the company came from outside of the country. I had a staff of Thais working for my company, rented buildings, complete setup of office equipment, etc etc... . In the last few years business has declined and last year I had to give it up. My problem is that I now have no work permit or visa, which I had the entire time I had my company. I am under 50 and not a rich man any more, lost it ! Sad story, I know.... I have an almost new 4x4 truck, and all the other house hold items. I have been with my Thai girl friend for over 5 years and support her and the family, I live up country. This is my home !

Since my company shut down I have entering Thailand as a tourist. Sometimes I have work out of the country and will leave for a week or more and then return. My pass port was stamped in Laos at the Thai Emb. on Oct. 29 th " May Be Refused Visa in Future " . Due to work I have been in and out of Thailand three times since but only for a total of 30 days. My time is coming and the visa option may not work and the 30 day may not work and the Non O is not an option. Everything I have is in Thailand.....

Ya.... I know.....I had enough time to figure it out...Not true !!!

[ttthailand]

nobody is prohibiting back to back visas. all they prohibit are more than 3 back to back 30 day visas and more than 2 or 3 tourist visas per year. get this:

January-February 30 days visa

February-March 30 days visa

March-April 30 days visa

April-July 60+30 days tourist visa

July-August 30 days visa

August-September 30 days visa

September-October 30 days visa

October-January 60+30 days visa

However, I doubt if they would let one get away with that. It obviously contradicts the intent of the regulations.

Now you worry about contradicting the intent of the visa regulations? You are in a situation of your own making. No doubt others have warned you in the past to fix this but your couldn't get your act together and do it so now you have put your family at risk and are still making excuses when someone is offering you a solution.

Do yourself and your family a favour and do everything you can to straighten out your visa situation before your son faces life without a father. With that in his future you should be working your ass off to fix this and not wasting time feeling sorry for yourself with melodramatic letters.

No, I'm not one of those who are going to pat you on the back and tell you it's not your fault, I think you've made enough excuses over the years, and if you don't fix things soon your family faces a much more difficult time than you ever will.

So stop blaming the Thai government. You can't do anything about that. Find a way to work within the system, and make sure you're there to take care of those kids.

I would guess you are retired and living Pattaya.

Taking care of a Thai Family ?

Have a Child in Thailand ?

I am sure there is more to this guy's story. Give him a break...

[paulmw]

here we go .............

Well said Mid.

We don't half get some smug gits on here I,m ok jack f the rest of U.

One day my friend u may just need help from forums like this

If this happened in a western country ( especially mine) the press would crucify the government.

So would the human rights people.

[p_brownstone]

The immigration officer in room 103 freaked out because of a mis-match in our perspectives. Her attitude seemed to be "I am a police officer, you must obey me." My attitude was "You're selling various kinds of visas, how much do they cost, which kind do I want to buy?" The price of the annual renewable spousal visa got too high, so I decided not to buy one. I remember her jumping up and screaming "THE RULES ARE THE SAME FOR EVERYONE!" and marching out of the room. Everyone was staring at her.

It's clear that even after 17 years in Thailand you have learnt very little about how to behave towards Officials here – the rule is whether you respect them or not, agree with them or not, you don’t let it show.

To incite an Immigration Officer to anger, to the point where she screams at you and walks out, indicates a very strange attitude from someone really serious about trying to stay in the Country.

Plus I have to say that your "Letter" to the Immigration Authorities will likely cause more irritation than sympathy for the same reason - you are putting all the blame on the Authorities and accepting none at all for your own lack of foresight and, whether you accept it or not, your contravention of the spirit of the Tourist Visa Regulations for the past 17 (17!) years.

Patrick

[cdnvic]

I am sure there is more to this guy's story. Give him a break...

What will that accomplish?

He doesn't have time for any more breaks, or excuses.

[ttthailand]

I am sure there is more to this guy's story. Give him a break...

What will that accomplish?

He doesn't have time for any more breaks, or excuses.

Perhaps you are right. But I can't help but feel sorry for this guy and his family. Sometimes when everything in life appears to be working out great future problems may not be on your mind. Next thing you know BANG.

I just gave my story earlier. It's happening to me !

[pedro01]

I am sure there is more to this guy's story. Give him a break...

What will that accomplish?

He doesn't have time for any more breaks, or excuses.

Yup.

C'mon Andy - Rainman put it best.

Why not make an honest woman of her ?

[AndyCanfield]

I believe that they do monitor this site from time to time. Question is.....are they on now?

Doesn't matter, as long as they get around to looking before it disappears.

I have the following suggestions for Andy:

1.) Have one of your chidlren (proably your son's) custody awarded to you, by a competent court, which will make you eligible to get the visa. Surely the mother will assist in this matter in exchange for a small amount in continued financial support. The fact that the child physically remains with the mother should not be a problem. This will make Andy eligible for a support type Visa.

I'm sure she would; we may be able to work something out there. There are remaining questions, but it's worth investigating. As for "a small amount of continued financial support", I'm already supporting her mother and father and two children and one nephew. I was willing to support her, but she'd rather dance in Bangkok. The child physically remains with grandma and with me, mommy visits once a month.

But, for sure, READ THE REGULATIONS, ALL THE REGULATIONS, before doing anything. Watch out for the second hoop to jump through.

2.) Get married. With so many lovely ladies out there, that should not be a problem.

I know that farangs frequently use this technique. But for me, marriage is sacred. It may happen, God willing, but not just to get a visa.

Only one?????

3.) Spend some time here and then some time in Cambodia or Laos, returning here peridocially.

A very good option, which I am exploring. A small village in nothern Cambodia? An apartment in Vientiane or Savannakhet? The current regulations may be a clumsy way to implement "no more than 180 days a year in Thailand". I will be checking out the Lao and Cambodian visa regulations. I was told, several years ago, that for US$280 I could get a one year multiple entry business visa to Cambodia. If true, it certainly is a different attitude from Thailand.

4.) Start an Amity company with work permit and Visa and run some type of operation here.

I owned and operated a company at one time. Hated dealing with the government; will never make that mistake again. Business is fun; corporate law is the third door on the left side of (Hades).

5.) Become a School teacher at a local school or University. An excellent solution since your Thai is flawless, your are a University Graduate and you have the contacts to find the job.

My Thai is terrible, but I have enough technical skills that this would be feasible. I would have to teach in English.

6.) Become an accredited volunteer with a foreign aid or other agency that will give you Visa rights.

Never heard of this one; thanks for the concept. You suggested starting a company; maybe I could found an NGO. The Canfield Home For Unwed Mothers Of Isan.

7.) Get a job with a large foreign corporation that operates in LOS.

I've worked for large international corporations; it's yucky. "Yes, we shafted you, but we have a duty to our stockholders." I prefer businesses where the head man takes personal responsibility for the company's behavior. Certainly with my technical background I could perform useful work over the Internet. But Thai immigration law cannot yet cope with that situation.

His act of crying out on the behalf of the many, that are affected by these spontaneous rules, not so thought out, or incomplete in many ways, is a noble act on the behalf of all of those affected.

Thank you for noticing. They can shaft me; I'll survive. I hate to see my family hurt, but things will work out one way or another. I honestly don't think that the authorities have recognized the impact their regulations have on otherwise innocent Thai citizens who are benefitting from the presence of permanent tourists here.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring, they may change the rules and send away the husbands and employees that meet the present requirements. There is little security for the affected, nor any continuity, in the way these rules are made, enforced or changed, is what I think Andy is trying to say.

There never was any permanent security, in that sense. One of the things I like about the Thai people, one of the things that I have learned here, is that a temporary solution is as good as a permanent solution, as long as it lasts. Security is not in what you can prevent, security is in what you can survive. I will survive. My family will survive.

But I love Thailand enough that when I see a bad law I want to speak up in the hopes that those in authority will understand why it is bad, and make an improvement. I appreciate the Thai government allowing me to live here all these years, but my loyalty is not to the Thai government. My loyalty is to the Thai people. If the government is hurting the people, it is out of ignorance not malice, and I point it out to them.

By the way, I suspect that Andy is still working off a dialup line which explains him posting and then leaving the forum shortly thereafter. No! he is not a troll, I know this person, this is a real story. A unique story that deserves to be looked at.

Sometimes dial-up; today I'm on an ADSL line. It's just that I don't live on my computer. I read books, eat, go to the market, feed the fish, all sorts of things. Also, I've never started a topic before, so I had no idea that the reactions would be so fast. Thank you one and all.

I learn a little from those who agree with me. I learn more from those who disagree. I learn the most from those who hate me. Teach me, please.

Oh there is one more option for Andy ..... write a book about your many years here in LOS. Surely to be a best seller. I would be more than glad to provide for low cost publishing of such a project.

Thank you. I think I know who you are, mister mouse. I have saved your post on my hard disk; there were a number of new interesting useful ideas here. Thanks for your contributions. Thank you all for your contributions.

[taxexile]

perhaps those that are having , or are about to have problems with obtaining the right to remain in this country to support wives and family ought to avail themselves of the services of one of the more reputable law firms that should be able to help them.

rather than banging away hopelessly at the door of an immigration officer on a power trip , let an experienced law firm advise you on how to prepare the right documentation and how to present your cases correctly and respectfully at the immigration office.

you might just find it works.

rightly or wrongly , attitude and presentation are all in this country and can change a power hungry government official into a sympathetic public servant before you can say kha pom.

[Robski]

Robski should read your post and re-read your original OP...

And then hang his head in shame...

I'm not ashamed to ask pertinent questions. I would be ashamed if my opinion of others was formed only on the basis of emotional opinion.

Andy thankyou for explaining your situation further. Keep your chin up. There is some good advice been posted here for you.

Good luck.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Robski