Is It Better To Train In A Frang Owned Muay Thai Gym?

[Gerry290]

Hi

Having spent 1 year now in Thailand, and hoepfully many more to come....

As regards learning and training MuayThai...if you are not going to be/or do not have the ability/age to train to be a top Muay Thai fighter.... based on my experience I am beginning to think you are better off training in a Frang run Muay Thai gym.

me for example...I am in and out of martial arts....mainly Kickboxing, and also am a Krav Maga Self Defence Instructor... however I am 35 ( so chances of winning a muay thai top title is slim ...age is not on my side lol!!) but I did kickboxing for ireland once, and also won an Irish title.

Now I want to train as hard as I can, and get in an clinch and spar as much as I can... not be condemned to a few rounds with a semi interested pad man...and then pushed off to the heavy bag for an hour (now I now all this has it place)..

In my experience in a few differnt Muay Thai camps... I am beginning to find....Thai trainers do not seem really too interested in really training and teaching me, even though I am paying good money.

They seem happy to pad you for a few rounds, expending as little effort as possible, and then off to the bag work and your done...no sparring... no real effort to really bring on your skills.

This really annoys me.

So yesterday I went around a few Frang gyms and have one more to visit in pattaya where I live, and explained the situation, and what I want...answer is "no problem... we will teach you and show you all here!"

In fact... one gym I went too...there were two guys almost in their 40s having a good spar. that was refreshing to see!

Perhaps its best of us farang who are past being competitive fighters to stay away from the camps who bring on the top talent, and go to the camps where we can pay our fees, be accepted, and be trained properly.

Back home in Ireland a few years back, when I was kickboxing alot, there were men in their 50s...who would glove up and spar with the rest of us younger lads, and give as good as they got!

[Mai Krap]

Thai Muay Thai is for young skinny kids to fight in the ring. No 35 year old man with a western background has a shot at any carreer in Muay Thai alone. If you spent your 20s somewhere working in stripper bars smashing peoples heads or were a single sport fighter in some style of MA then you might have a chance of getting tuned up enough to get in a few MMA fights before your 40 which is pretty much when its over for MMA ring fighting, in Muay Thai its about 21. Competition Jui Jitsu and and other grappling events can can give you some sport well into ones fiftys and stand up jacket wrestling like practised across Mongolia and Uzbekistan can have you in competitions till your bones just start to break around 70.

Most of the Thais involved in Muay Thai have no love of the sport. They know it takes young kids to win the game and win money so someone they view as a old tired asss showing up and trying to get technical with them during a training session is just a bore. The first thing is if your a western sized guy you will not find many if any Thais to spar with so you need westerners for that. Secondly, for them its a job and they only see you as paying for training and not as a money maker, in that they are going to take your money and give you as little back as possible. In general they see no point in training for self defense or just as good training without the possibility of winning money.

The conclusion here is if you are young enough, skinny enough, and broke enough to hang around and train at a typical Thai camp go for it. If you have no plans to turn pro in Thailand then find some westerners to train with who view training the same way that you do.

[Tingnongnoi]

I dont think he is looking to become a champion just for a decent workout. It is difficult to try and get an out and out proffesional gym to take interset as they have to be concerned about what brings in theirincome and that is usually their own competing fighters, there are a few gyms though that will cater to westerners alongside them, I havent heard too many good things about any in Pattaya though to be honest, although Fairtex do have a mixture of both their own fighters and foriegn boxers and you should get looked after there a little more, though they are not by any way the cheapest

[Gerry290]

No...I am certainly NOT looking to enter the world of Muay Thai pro fighting at 35! LOL!!! I have a business to run! I bet there is someone out there, maybe even me...at this age...with total free time to train, and a good coach that could do it.

I read a book a few years back...cannto remember name.. this UK pint drinking pot smoking 30 something journalist decided to become a PRO BOXER and fight. after knock backs from 100s of boxing clubs...most of whole offered him Amateur training, he said no I will only go PRO... and to cut a lonh story short he found a Pro trainer in sheffield who took him on... and he trained for about 18 months and did I Pro fight. he lost but did well. trainer wanted him to keep fight...but he said no....goal achieved... I am going back to the beer. the book was about this training journey and of great interest. i d love to read it again.

No, I am someone whose passion is Martial Arts...simple as that. My main interest is in Self Defence applications.... soon I will be teaching Krav Maga self defence in pattaya in a few months for ordinary people who want some basic self defence skills..and who would not be interested in a boxing gym.

but for me to be the best... I must train as hard as I can and Muay Thai is one of the best striking systems in the world. I train daily, as hard as I can. Its my life long passion, and I will do it until the body stops.

My own kickboxing instructor is 70 (he introduced full contact kickboxing to Ireland in the 1970s) and he stills spars and at 70 can still do the splits.. look www.worldmugendouniversity.com

I just want a Thai gym where I can pay... train in the morings as this suits best... get my pad and bag work in, get clich sparring and be shown the finer points, and a few spars a few times a week...just like any kickboxing or Muay Thai club does in the western world.

I go to BKK on Sundays to learn jeet kune do too! (well starting next month).

I went to see Fairtex in Pattaya yesterday and I did not like it at all... I knwo they got great fighters, but in general, with was "muay thai tourist" aimed... and I asked about sparring and was told...."sometimes"...which to me means none! though I did stay 2 weeks 2 years back in Fairtex in BKK and the standard was higher there among the farang.

I did a good few months in sityodtong which is a good camp...but again no sparring...and my trainer does not hit, nor interact with me on the pad work out. its just kick kick kick (reek of beer chang) knee. etc... now I am improving...because I am not been brought on, I am starting to disimprove!!!!

Yeah... I think the MT for alot of thai kids is just a way out....its either try to be a boxer...or do 12 hour shifts in a factory.

I was lucky to spend 8 months up in Nong Ki Burriram in what was once a famous camp in the early 1990s Nampon, Numkabuan etc , now its small but the master got 2 twins pay 14 he is training up... 3000 kicks a day to the pads (in sets of 100)..... no BS.... day in day out....sunday is training too. I got up to over 400 kicks a session...before my pad man was retired.... (master cleared out a few figther who did not make it, so no more work for 2 pad men). Plus the kids have to go to school daily. thats a tough day!!!!

I seen how it works up in Isan.... the lads try to be fighters, and make it... sister...well unfortuate we know where some end up working at. some older fighter in their 30s fighting local Isan circuit, foor 1000 bhat if they win.

My Thai boxing trainer in ireland said to me... (our National Irish sport is Hurling...which is like a fast rough game of Auzzie rules football only you got a stick and a small rock hard ball)...us going to Thailand to learn muay thai... its the same as what we would think (a joke even) of a bunch of Thais coming to ireland saying they want to learn to play Hurling, and play in the All Ireland Finals in Croke Park, in Dublin ( same as Lumpinin belt for a thai!) LOL!!!!

[Tingnongnoi]

I have never teained at Fairtex Pattaya but have seen the set up and its very impressive, for the money they charge they should really be showing you a lot of attention and have you clinching everytime.

[Gerry290]

I have never teained at Fairtex Pattaya but have seen the set up and its very impressive, for the money they charge they should really be showing you a lot of attention and have you clinching everytime.

Its 4000 bhat for a 10 session card in Fairtex Pattaya.... I though the guy was joking when he told me that!

Or 500 Bhat for just one session. thats more expensive that Muay Thai lessons in Ireland!!!...its only 6 euro a class in Dublin. even averages less if you pay monthly, and do 4 or 5 nights a week.

I dropped into www.kobmatgroup.com today... and shall tomorrow or the next day go down for a session.

I was in touch with the lads down there on email before xmas, and they do the whole thing for farangs, which sounds great. I explained my situation, and it was "Yes... we can train you" ! :-)

They say their afternoon session is better, but for me and with my work hours...thats going to be a little harder to make, maybe only twice a week. so mornings so!

[Mai Krap]

I have never teained at Fairtex Pattaya but have seen the set up and its very impressive, for the money they charge they should really be showing you a lot of attention and have you clinching everytime.

Its 4000 bhat for a 10 session card in Fairtex Pattaya.... I though the guy was joking when he told me that!

Or 500 Bhat for just one session. thats more expensive that Muay Thai lessons in Ireland!!!...its only 6 euro a class in Dublin. even averages less if you pay monthly, and do 4 or 5 nights a week.

I dropped into www.kobmatgroup.com today... and shall tomorrow or the next day go down for a session.

I was in touch with the lads down there on email before xmas, and they do the whole thing for farangs, which sounds great. I explained my situation, and it was "Yes... we can train you" ! :-)

They say their afternoon session is better, but for me and with my work hours...thats going to be a little harder to make, maybe only twice a week. so mornings so!

That sounds good, be sure and let us know how it works out in a few weeks. Chok Dee

[wrecker]

I would think three times before I went to a farang school, most people doing this are not nice people after all....

[leftcross]

i know a good place in bkk, 300 baht for a day with one hour guaranteed one-on-one instruction with a thai.

discounts for month, week etc.

[jbowman1993]

Hi

Having spent 1 year now in Thailand, and hoepfully many more to come....

As regards learning and training MuayThai...if you are not going to be/or do not have the ability/age to train to be a top Muay Thai fighter.... based on my experience I am beginning to think you are better off training in a Frang run Muay Thai gym.

me for example...I am in and out of martial arts....mainly Kickboxing, and also am a Krav Maga Self Defence Instructor... however I am 35 ( so chances of winning a muay thai top title is slim ...age is not on my side lol!!) but I did kickboxing for ireland once, and also won an Irish title.

Now I want to train as hard as I can, and get in an clinch and spar as much as I can... not be condemned to a few rounds with a semi interested pad man...and then pushed off to the heavy bag for an hour (now I now all this has it place)..

In my experience in a few differnt Muay Thai camps... I am beginning to find....Thai trainers do not seem really too interested in really training and teaching me, even though I am paying good money.

They seem happy to pad you for a few rounds, expending as little effort as possible, and then off to the bag work and your done...no sparring... no real effort to really bring on your skills.

This really annoys me.

So yesterday I went around a few Frang gyms and have one more to visit in pattaya where I live, and explained the situation, and what I want...answer is "no problem... we will teach you and show you all here!"

In fact... one gym I went too...there were two guys almost in their 40s having a good spar. that was refreshing to see!

Perhaps its best of us farang who are past being competitive fighters to stay away from the camps who bring on the top talent, and go to the camps where we can pay our fees, be accepted, and be trained properly.

Back home in Ireland a few years back, when I was kickboxing alot, there were men in their 50s...who would glove up and spar with the rest of us younger lads, and give as good as they got!

What the h*ll is a "Frang"??

[g00dgirl]

Gerry290, from my experience the training you get from many Thai trainers is different depending on whether you train to fight or not.

You might have been asked if you want to fight and if you said no then they might not train you as seriously, I saw this happen myself.

You're not too old to fight, so as an experiment you could walk into a small Thai gym and say you want to fight and see how they train you, check the difference.

The Thai trainers might not understand your motivation if you say you don't want to fight. So if you train in a Thai gym and you want to learn a lot of technique and do a lot of sparring then I am sure that is possible even if you don't want to fight, but you would have to make it very clear and ask for it to make sure the trainers are aware of it, don't be shy. If you then still find the trainers are not motivated then maybe a tip from time to time can help, not sure.

In a farang owned gym of course there you can speak out and there can't be a misunderstanding, the owner can make sure the trainers know what you want and train you accordingly. With sparring it might be right that if you are rather big you might need to spar with another farang at least if you want to do a lot of clinching. It's just a bit hard on a 60 kg Thai trainer to clinch with a 80 or 90 kg farang, even though with their technique they can throw you easily and I see it being done daily in gyms where farangs train.

[leftcross]

most gyms have a few fellow farangs to fight with anyway....if you are a big lad then fighting with thais is never an option....

[Siam_superfly]

The Thai gym that I train at in Bkk is fine.....if the Thais can see that u have skills, they will push u....300 baht a session, one on one and always a chance to spar if u want, I only Box, not Thai fighting....at times the trainer gets mad if I try to leave without sparring one of the Thais...but to much JD the night before always catches up with me.....

Edited January 21, 2007 by Siam_superfly

[Gerry290]

Gerry290, from my experience the training you get from many Thai trainers is different depending on whether you train to fight or not.

You might have been asked if you want to fight and if you said no then they might not train you as seriously, I saw this happen myself.

You're not too old to fight, so as an experiment you could walk into a small Thai gym and say you want to fight and see how they train you, check the difference.

The Thai trainers might not understand your motivation if you say you don't want to fight. So if you train in a Thai gym and you want to learn a lot of technique and do a lot of sparring then I am sure that is possible even if you don't want to fight, but you would have to make it very clear and ask for it to make sure the trainers are aware of it, don't be shy. If you then still find the trainers are not motivated then maybe a tip from time to time can help, not sure.

see I had a few experience back in kickboxing days in europe when I was younger and more green, (bad trainers involved) of not being trained properly, and then getting into the ring for fights, with some serious fighters, and even though I finished the bouts, after I said I would never get into ring if I am not in peak shape.

In a farang owned gym of course there you can speak out and there can't be a misunderstanding, the owner can make sure the trainers know what you want and train you accordingly. With sparring it might be right that if you are rather big you might need to spar with another farang at least if you want to do a lot of clinching. It's just a bit hard on a 60 kg Thai trainer to clinch with a 80 or 90 kg farang, even though with their technique they can throw you easily and I see it being done daily in gyms where farangs train.

Yes thats a good point. I do recall at some stage, someone saying..."you want to fight in bar first, no elbow", and I said..."you train me proper for a few months, and then we will see"... though they did ask me to fight with 12 hours notice before xmas, because someone dropped out, and I refused...because.. i had not gotten any sparring. and said... teach me more sparring, and I ll do it next time. anyway my "wind" and endurance is not good right now, so I need to build that up.

See I work afternoons and nights, so I can only train in the morning (cannot do afternoon sessions, except on sats)... problem is down in pattaya...alot of farang orientated camps... do not really have morning training... or if they do...its very light session. so I have less options than I would like!

Edited January 22, 2007 by Gerry290