Legals advice tips Condo sale

[Orangeclockwork]

 

 

Thanks all 

taking some Time answering ,

 

For a quick set up of the Sale ,

 

I have bought a Pattaya Condo 

In a recently  finish project .

 

Tittle transfer keeps being delayed 

 

I was not so well advised in first place 

so paiements done .

 

There are  few unclear points ,

 

It s meant to be on 

A foreign name .

 

Then contract does mentions somewhere 

 - if over the foreign quota ,

buyer is to set up a Thai company - 

 

So it would help 

to get competent advices ,

 

Is a Condo sold to as to be 

A foreign ownership , 

paid at the foreign market price ,

Could  turn to be a Thai company name one ,

as this happened to anyone ?

 

As the condo tittle still not transfer to me  ,

Could a sale contract be void 

For late transfer , or over irregularities .

 

A Couple details are not crystal clear also 

and i will  need some professional advices .

 

If anyone already  used or know 

A Compétent / reliable Thai lawyer around or his location 

Or also private message me .

 

Someone suggested also 

on Older posts ,

trying an outside of town indépendant 

lawyer ? 

 

Thanks answers .

 

[KittenKong]

48 minutes ago, Orangeclockwork said:

Then contract does mentions somewhere 

 - if over the foreign quota ,

buyer is to set up a Thai company - 

 

This is very vague. You might like to post a scan of the relevant section(s) of the contract but be sure to redact any names, addresses, numbers etc that might identify you or the development.

 

In theory if you have contracted to buy a farang-name unit then that is what you should get. But if your contract is in some way dodgy then there may be problems. Dodgy contracts are very common here.

 

As for chanotes (titles) not being transferred, that is quite common with the worst Pattaya developers.

 

Does your building have anyone living in it? Are you in contact with them and other co-owners? If not, I suggest that you try and contact them and see what they are experiencing. You will need to get to know them soon enough as you will have to be voting for a committee before long, and you should also be prepared to forcibly eject the developer if they have installed themselves, or their cronies, as management and are making a pig's ear of it.

 

I would be extremely wary of dealing with any lawyer in Pattaya. You could try asking your consulate for a list of respectable Bangkok lawyers you can consult with. You could also approach the Office of Consumer Protection at Pattaya City Hall where free legal advice and help may be available, but people seem to have variable experiences with them.

 

I'm guessing from your spelling that you are French-speaking, so bon courage.

[Orangeclockwork]

Hi thanks a lot for your answers 

 

It does well answer most of my previous questions ,

also confirm my initials thoughts ,

that contract is extremely unclear 

regarding ownership name .

 

I believe it needs a serious professional look  over ,

will follow all your precious advices then ,

 

I approached few locals legals ,

you are very right ,  best bet seems to be elsewhere 

 

 

Cheers .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KittenKong]

32 minutes ago, Orangeclockwork said:

I believe it needs a serious professional look  over ,

will follow all your precious advices then ,

 

I approached few locals legals ,

you are very right ,  best bet seems to be elsewhere

 

If your country has a consular office in Pattaya (quite a few do) you might be able to have a chat with someone there in your own language. They may have some suggestions about local or Bangkok lawyers who are reasonable. They may even have some experience of similar situations.

[Orangeclockwork]

Many thanks for great  advices 

given on the last posts ,

 

It points up More  ,

How good would be a dodgy sale contract

written in English only Regarding Thai law ?

 

Who holds the original contract of sale 

written in Thai , there should be one ?

 

As i have never seen or signed any .

Developer  , his lawyer ?

there should be one somewhere I suppose .

Haven't  got that one , only an English one .

 

I have been strongly advise also 

To refuse anything 

in company Thai name .

 

Was paid on foreign basis at full  price meter /  square 

 

I am not sure how legal that is 

regarding Thai law .

 

Thai company name

does look a very headache to set up 

means probably going through same people 

Mentioned before to be wary with .

 

Anyone has experienced it ?

 

hoping this post helps , 

i am surely not the only one around ..

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KittenKong]

If you have never seen or signed a Thai contract then even if there is one somewhere it cant be valid. (Unless perhaps this is connected with the POA you mentioned. I would never sign a POA in Thailand if I could possibly avoid it.) So maybe there is only an English contract.

 

The pros and cons of company ownership of condos have been widely discussed on here.

 

Basically you have the setup costs of the company, the yearly accounting fees, the eventual shutting down costs, and possibly some sort of extra yearly local property tax that seems to be randomly applied to some company-owned property. You also have the problem of needing to use some sort of nominee Thai shareholder structure, which is probably illegal and potentially leaves you exposed to fraud. And on top of that you may find that you have to pay business rates for utilities rather than domestic rates.

 

Then of course you have the potential difficulty of selling the condo should you ever wish to. Few would dispute that farang-name condos are generally much easier to sell, at least in buildings/areas that are popular with farangs, and that even then it often isnt easy and may take many years to happen.

 

On the plus side a company-name condo will probably be cheaper to buy than an identical farang-name one, and if you can find someone who will take on the company as well as the condo it owns then you will avoid property transfer tax when you sell. That's a very big if though.

 

So all in all company-owned condos look like a complete non-starter to me.

[trogers]

Why put yourself in a pit, and then made to dig deeper? Opening a Thai company using nominees to own a condo unit!

 

Buy a unit from the secondary market. I'm sure there are lots of Farang-owned units looking for buyers.

[tomwct]

Try and cancel the deal and get your money back. You can rent the same unit and you'll be way ahead of the

the folks that bought. In Thailand it's just not good to buy anything and your experience explains it all. I've rented for 15 years and I'll continue renting. You can buy a car though and put it in your name. That's pretty safe!

[trogers]

17 minutes ago, tomwct said:

Try and cancel the deal and get your money back. You can rent the same unit and you'll be way ahead of the

the folks that bought. In Thailand it's just not good to buy anything and your experience explains it all. I've rented for 15 years and I'll continue renting. You can buy a car though and put it in your name. That's pretty safe!

Some prefer to buy a condo as an insurance that it would still be a financial asset during old age. Renting is pure consumption.

 

Think of it as buying an insurance policy that has a monetary return on maturity compared to a policy that has a lower annual premium but no monetary returns, unless the undesirable occurs.

[Orangeclockwork]

Thanks ,

 

i do figure out it all , only now unfortunately .

not keen on pursuing transaction at all ,

 

renting myself elsewhere over here @6000 month ,

was very happy with it and the freedom .

 

I was looking for some  rentals income only .

 

originalely it was already rented Flat when I bought it with income ,

by the time I paid lodgers were vanish , I just

supposed there wasn't any the all Time .

 

so no Condo no rentals no documents and money is gone .

big mistake that was ,

 

learned how to be careful with Thais for transactions ,

Didnt see  it coming  from farangs  management though ,

so paid in full my mistake .

 

then I don't think there will be much chance

of getting the money back , or may take years through lawyers .

 

thanks for the idea of insurance , I will follow it , if I can withdraw myself of this .

Was my big mistake , don't do many , but here we go ..

 

thanks you  all !

[KittenKong]

31 minutes ago, Orangeclockwork said:

originalely it was already rented Flat when I bought it with income ,

by the time I paid lodgers were vanish , I just

supposed there wasn't any the all Time .

 

so no Condo no rentals no documents and money is gone .

 

This is a somewhat different slant on the situation you originally described. I thought that you said you were buying an unsold unit direct from the developer. If so it should not have tenants in.

 

Who EXACTLY did you buy from? The developer or some individual?

 

As a general rule you should avoid paying any money up front in Thailand as there is always a good chance that you wont get what you are expecting and wont get the money back either. For purchases of existing property the payment should ONLY be made at the time of the sale at the land office when they process the transfer. Anything else is surely a scam.

For purchases of off-plan property directly from the developer, only pay as little as possible up-front. Preferably nothing. Never, never, never pay the full amount before the transfer takes place.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Orangeclockwork said:

learned how to be careful with Thais for transactions ,

Didnt see  it coming  from farangs  management though ,

 

Under no circumstances should anyone ever trust any person in any way connected with property sales in Pattaya. Skin colour is entirely irrelevant. Thieves abound here and there is very little legal or official protection, if any.

Personally I wouldn't trust anyone connected with property at all (agents, owners, landlords, management companies), anywhere in Thailand.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by KittenKong

[MaeJoMTB]

54 minutes ago, Orangeclockwork said:

Didnt see  it coming  from farangs  management though ,

so paid in full my mistake .

 

Foreigners aren't allowed to sell property in Thailand. It's a prohibited job (along with financial services, banking and insurance).

Never do business with foreigners in Thailand.

Edited October 14, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[Orangeclockwork]

Hi  , I have just pm you ,

 

i not explained myself very well last post ,

 

yes it was bought from the developer ,

who said there was 1 year tenants renting , so rentals would come to me .

then I was back home , on my return they were vanish .

There probably was  never been anyone renting ,

just lies .

I know now , shouldnt  have tenants anyway ,

then there are few people stay renting .

 

i don't hold Condo keys , so can't even stay around 

there to talk around people , and try find out

what their actual situation is regarding tittles ,

 

as you suggest to me earlier wisely .

 

trying cancel the all sale ,  as it's been suggested ,

Would be best sure , through lawyers , 

This would take ages I supposed .

[Orangeclockwork]

Sorry didn't see  post above ,

apparently Foreigners do sell and or 

manage developpements , at least one (: 

 

i have learned my lesson , I thing even bars girls are way more trustable 

than farangs when it comes to business .