Legal advice/ Traffic fatality

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I do see where you are coming from, but the issue with this is that so long as this is the accepted way, then it will continue forever and the law book may as well be thrown in the bin, sometimes, unfortunately, fatal accidents are unavoidable, especially when somebody is on a motorbike and intent on killing themselves by shear idiotic riding, the person they hit maybe completely innocent, wrong place wrong time.

So true, but  in this place it's just another daft mindset of the place.....But it does show us how important it is to have first class insurance...I know of stuff where the BiB just uses "insurance" to make a few quid on the side....Yes it is corruption and theft that this place thinks is OK...    

[jgarbo]

7 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I do see where you are coming from, but the issue with this is that so long as this is the accepted way, then it will continue forever and the law book may as well be thrown in the bin, sometimes, unfortunately, fatal accidents are unavoidable, especially when somebody is on a motorbike and intent on killing themselves by shear idiotic riding, the person they hit maybe completely innocent, wrong place wrong time.

The law books aren't thrown away. Nor are they final arbiters. A very smart Thai told me long ago that farang come from legal societies, whereas Thais come from a civil society. He's was right. I've broken quite a few "laws" but never been jailed, because I understood & respected the others' feelings and position. While ever farang still believe they're in some tropical England or US, they'll be unhappy, because their expectations will not match reality.

I tire of dealing with these people, who refused to admit reality. 

[typhoon42]

2 hours ago, jgarbo said:

All the farang are acting like ...farang. Insurance, law, etc are not as important as feelings. In any collision, both parties are considered at fault. The question is the "proportion" of blame. The kid is dead, she's not. He wins. She has a car, he had a bike. He wins. So attend the funeral, wai the parents and commiserate. Then get a third party to arrange compensation. Maybe Bt 100K. It's a life, remember. All forgiven, no police record.    

Your response is exactly what is taking place.

 

She attended the funeral with lawyer, paid respect to the family.  Lawyers negotiated with family.

 

She even said the family did not treat her rudely.

 

They negotiated a reasonable settlement.  49k baht up front followed by 1k baht for 36 months.

 

Appreciate your post.

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, jgarbo said:

The law books aren't thrown away. Nor are they final arbiters. A very smart Thai told me long ago that farang come from legal societies, whereas Thais come from a civil society. He's was right. I've broken quite a few "laws" but never been jailed, because I understood & respected the others' feelings and position. While ever farang still believe they're in some tropical England or US, they'll be unhappy, because their expectations will not match reality.

I tire of dealing with these people, who refused to admit reality. 

 

Your "very smart" Thai was BSing himself as well as you.

 

That's what they do......making up a fantasy of sophistication to convince themselves and others that they are not stuck in a primitive, gold flaked, feudal culture of dominion, patronage and "connections".

 

Rule of Law (all are equal under the law) is what the West aspires to, Rule by Law (selectively constructed and applied or ignored to suit the powerful, irrespective of what the books say) is the "reality" in Thailand and the region.

 

Rule of law - Wikipedia

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Enoon

[GoDucks]

Am I  the only person who doesn't have bad experiences with Thai police?  I've been here for over two decades and every time I think they're quite reasonable and fair.

 

Eight or nine years ago I was driving down the road and the woman on a motorcycle sidecar lost control and basically hit the front of my car. It was all her fault she went flying and I honestly thought she was dead.  Turns out she only had some injuries that took a couple of days in the hospital and she was fine.

 

When it came time to have the big meeting with the policeI offered to give her 5000 just as a gesture of goodwill and the police thought I was the best thing since sliced bread.  There was no issue at all.

Of course, she did not die.

Edited October 20, 2017 by GoDucks

[EcigAmateur]

2 hours ago, jgarbo said:

All the farang are acting like ...farang. Insurance, law, etc are not as important as feelings. In any collision, both parties are considered at fault. The question is the "proportion" of blame. The kid is dead, she's not. He wins. She has a car, he had a bike. He wins. So attend the funeral, wai the parents and commiserate. Then get a third party to arrange compensation. Maybe Bt 100K. It's a life, remember. All forgiven, no police record.    

 

100 thb is the maximum that I would pay for any life if I am not responsible.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, EcigAmateur said:

 

100 thb is the maximum that I would pay for any life if I am not responsible.

 

 

But the BiB  may have different ideas...

[EcigAmateur]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

But the BiB  may have different ideas...

 

So bye bye Thailand, I have enough money in different countries to just abandon everything behind me. Let's see if they prefer to get nothing.

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, EcigAmateur said:

 

So bye bye Thailand, I have enough money in different countries to just abandon everything behind me. Let's see if they prefer to get nothing.

 

 

They don't care......

[thedemon]

5 hours ago, EcigAmateur said:

Nothing to pay if driver has first class insurance. Anything else can only happen to people who know nothing and have been scammed all their life.

 

 

 

The insurance company may assume the civil liability but the criminal liability remains with the driver.

 

If the damaged party decides that they want more than the insurance company is willing to pay and if the police agree with them, you will pay, one way or another.

 

Even if you are not detained or have your passport confiscated, at the very least they will keep your vehicle. Then, after absconding with criminal charges pending, you will never be able to set foot in Thailand again.

 

 

[hobz]

6 hours ago, ujayujay said:

If you have a 1. Class Insurance and a Dashboardcam in all this Stories here never somebody will have to pay one Satang, if not not caused the accident.

I dont think it works like this in thailand. In many cases the offender admits guilt and the farang still has to pay. The judges can do anything they want and nobody will hold them responsible.

[Mattd]

On 10/20/2017 at 1:22 PM, jgarbo said:

The law books aren't thrown away. Nor are they final arbiters. A very smart Thai told me long ago that farang come from legal societies, whereas Thais come from a civil society. He's was right. I've broken quite a few "laws" but never been jailed, because I understood & respected the others' feelings and position. While ever farang still believe they're in some tropical England or US, they'll be unhappy, because their expectations will not match reality.

I tire of dealing with these people, who refused to admit reality. 

Sorry, but what a complete and utter load of rubbish, if you truly believe that this Thai was smart, then I despair.

This type of thinking is why the likes of Red Bull 'Boy' can get away with things and exactly why the average Thai doesn't even think and in a lot of cases know that he has done anything wrong, it is quite normal behavior for them.

What this 'smart' Thai is saying in effect is that so long as you understand and respect (pay off) other peoples feelings, then it is perfectly OK to do whatever they want, IMHO that is a self centered way of looking at life.

This in a country where they jail some poor nobody for 30+ years for liking the wrong post in Facebook, yet if you have money, then murder is OK.

[hobz]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

Sorry, but what a complete and utter load of rubbish, if you truly believe that this Thai was smart, then I despair.

This type of thinking is why the likes of Red Bull 'Boy' can get away with things and exactly why the average Thai doesn't even think and in a lot of cases know that he has done anything wrong, it is quite normal behavior for them.

What this 'smart' Thai is saying in effect is that so long as you understand and respect (pay off) other peoples feelings, then it is perfectly OK to do whatever they want, IMHO that is a self centered way of looking at life.

This in a country where they jail some poor nobody for 30+ years for liking the wrong post in Facebook, yet if you have money, then murder is OK.

There's a difference between right and pragmatic. See explanation here: https://marco.org/2012/02/25/right-vs-pragmatic

There's a difference between what is right and what is reality.

 

In Thailand it's better to be realistic and pragmatic than to be right. Being right is great and all, but it's just not how reality works here.

 

[canthai55]

On 10/20/2017 at 1:13 AM, Enoon said:

Rule of Law (all are equal under the law) is what the West aspires to

Want to know the REAL rule of Law - he with the most money wins. Been this way in the West since courts appeared.

Asked a top notch criminal defense attorney this question once. His reply -

 "I went to Law school, not Justice school"  Damn straight answer.

LOS - all about connections. Do you know someone higher up than your opposition ?  If so, you win. Simple.

[Jitar]

Accident details and their outcomes vary widely so don't read too much into stories of other incidents.     

 

Your friend may think she was not at fault but the police may have a different interpretation.  There are so many accidents in Thailand, Police do not always investigate fatalities thoroughly so the outcome can be unpredictable. 

 

I suggest your friend have her insurance or a lawyer handle as much of this as possible.  If she has no insurance, she will need the best lawyer she can afford.   As already suggested, avoid any signs of wealth or financial support.  

 

[digbeth]

100k and showing up at the funeral is the norm, that is to show 'good faith' on your part that is above and beyond what your insurance(if any) will pay out after lengthy ordeal. you can even pay 50,000 now and *no promise* do what you can at a later date

 

not paying any at all and let the insurance handles everything is also perfectly legal and valid response

 

all this is that should it comes to court, should the other side lawyer up and start demanding compensation like potential future earnings off the dead kid and all, the court will look favorably upon you

[tomtaylor1]

My own experience was driving along Pattaya Suckhumvit  Road, when being under taken by a motor bike being ridden by a European Man. I was in the nearside lane passing parked cars, when the rider passed one parked car, swung over to the left passing me on the inside, but had failed to see or negotiate another parked car in front of him, he then swung out right, shouting oh <deleted>..ing hell, slammed into the corner of my motor, then the bike and him ending up under the parked car.

The bike he was riding belonged to his ex, he failed to return it to her, did not have insurance and The Police think he may have been intoxicated as well as speeding.

I had insurance, but my motor was impounded by The Police for 2 weeks, whilst the investigation went on.

It was touch and go, whether I would be prosecuted or not. I involved The Condominium Manager of where I live, She liaised with The Police and The Police Man who takes care of The Condominium, and it was 50/50 chance of being prosecuted,  had it been a Thai on the motor bike, was informed I would be at fault so to speak. Collected my Motor after the 2 weeks, had to pay, other cars in the compound had not been   so lucky, partially stripped, wheels and so forth missing.

I now understand why people do not stop and just speed away.

The motor bike rider, we went to see him in Hospital, he had insurance from his own country for Medical and travel, but not motor. His Medical bills in Bangkok Pattaya intensive care unit were 200.000 per night, 14 nights, before being repatriated. He suffered severe brain damage, he was wearing a helmet.

Tom  

[EcigAmateur]

11 hours ago, tomtaylor1 said:

My own experience was driving along Pattaya Suckhumvit  Road, when being under taken by a motor bike being ridden by a European Man. I was in the nearside lane passing parked cars, when the rider passed one parked car, swung over to the left passing me on the inside, but had failed to see or negotiate another parked car in front of him, he then swung out right, shouting oh <deleted>..ing hell, slammed into the corner of my motor, then the bike and him ending up under the parked car.

The bike he was riding belonged to his ex, he failed to return it to her, did not have insurance and The Police think he may have been intoxicated as well as speeding.

I had insurance, but my motor was impounded by The Police for 2 weeks, whilst the investigation went on.

It was touch and go, whether I would be prosecuted or not. I involved The Condominium Manager of where I live, She liaised with The Police and The Police Man who takes care of The Condominium, and it was 50/50 chance of being prosecuted,  had it been a Thai on the motor bike, was informed I would be at fault so to speak. Collected my Motor after the 2 weeks, had to pay, other cars in the compound had not been   so lucky, partially stripped, wheels and so forth missing.

I now understand why people do not stop and just speed away.

The motor bike rider, we went to see him in Hospital, he had insurance from his own country for Medical and travel, but not motor. His Medical bills in Bangkok Pattaya intensive care unit were 200.000 per night, 14 nights, before being repatriated. He suffered severe brain damage, he was wearing a helmet.

Tom  

 

so he was clearly guilty but you have been considered 50% guilty even with the help of your condo cop ? seems quite incredible and unacceptable.