Pricing Policies At Sansuk Sauna, Racist Or Not Racist?

[Thaiquila]

And he also knows that if he uses an unfair single-pricing policy that encourages an older farang clientele and discourages young thai hotties than us older farangs simply will not go!

Why do you refuse to get a basic point that I have repeated multiple times? The young Thai hotties could be given free or discount incentives without any reference to race/nationality whatsoever, with a promotion for young hotties of any race/nationality. Do you have reading comprehension issues?

[popshirt]

And he also knows that if he uses an unfair single-pricing policy that encourages an older farang clientele and discourages young thai hotties than us older farangs simply will not go!

Why do you refuse to get a basic point that I have repeated multiple times? The young Thai hotties could be given free or discount incentives without any reference to race/nationality whatsoever, with a promotion for young hotties of any race/nationality. Do you have reading comprehension issues?

Maybe too much Fox news watching.

[pumpuiman]

This sauna charges falang so they can meet and have sex with Thai people.

Thai's are the draw obviously, I dont get the argument here.

Well, not exactly.

The cute younger ones that so many gay people want to see in a sauna could be attracted with an AGE based discount program that has nothing to do with race/nationality.

This is a another classic case of SOAKING farangs for the sake of soaking, because they can get away with it. And with so many farangs supporting/defending this kind of race/nationality discrimination, I predict alot more businesses will join the bandwagon. Congrats!

It's a sauna aimed at tourists! In a sex tourist mecca.

I really cant fathom that this thread still continues.

This sauna owner allows Thai people in for free.

The patrons want to have sex with Thai people.

It's <deleted> marketing, plain and simple.

No conspiracy, no discrimination.

He wants your money.

period.

[PeaceBlondie]

But ThaiQuila - racism is acceptable to many Thais. Racism is acceptable to some residents and tourists in Pattaya. "Discrimination" used to be a nice word, because gentlemen could discriminate between good and bad, beautiful and ugly. Two-thirds of your respondents so far have said that the policy is not racist, and it's safe to bet that most respondents are farang who live in Thailand.

[Thaiquila]

But ThaiQuila - racism is acceptable to many Thais. Racism is acceptable to some residents and tourists in Pattaya. "Discrimination" used to be a nice word, because gentlemen could discriminate between good and bad, beautiful and ugly. Two-thirds of your respondents so far have said that the policy is not racist, and it's safe to bet that most respondents are farang who live in Thailand.

I really don't get your point, PB. It is an unscientific opinion poll, not a gauge of objective truth. It only reveals some peoples reaction and feelings. Thats all. No more, no less.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Thaiquila

[Thaiquila]

This sauna charges falang so they can meet and have sex with Thai people.

Thai's are the draw obviously, I dont get the argument here.

Well, not exactly.

The cute younger ones that so many gay people want to see in a sauna could be attracted with an AGE based discount program that has nothing to do with race/nationality.

This is a another classic case of SOAKING farangs for the sake of soaking, because they can get away with it. And with so many farangs supporting/defending this kind of race/nationality discrimination, I predict alot more businesses will join the bandwagon. Congrats!

It's a sauna aimed at tourists! In a sex tourist mecca.

I really cant fathom that this thread still continues.

This sauna owner allows Thai people in for free.

The patrons want to have sex with Thai people.

It's <deleted> marketing, plain and simple.

No conspiracy, no discrimination.

He wants your money.

period.

It may be somewhat of a sex tourist mecca, but it also a place where thousands of people live full time, Thai, farang, other foreigners, many races, a mix of ages, rich and poor.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Thaiquila

[orchis]

But ThaiQuila - racism is acceptable to many Thais. Racism is acceptable to some residents and tourists in Pattaya. "Discrimination" used to be a nice word, because gentlemen could discriminate between good and bad, beautiful and ugly. Two-thirds of your respondents so far have said that the policy is not racist, and it's safe to bet that most respondents are farang who live in Thailand.

I really don't get your point, PB. It is an unscientific opinion poll, not a gauge of objective truth. It only reveals some peoples reaction and feelings. Thats all. No more, no less.

Yes and your opinion about the pricing policy is also an opinion, not a gauge of objective truth. Get a grip, grl.

[Cannyscot]

I checked the Sansuk Sauna website and they are charging 180 Baht for an introductory period.I do not like double pricing policies but I would say that this price is pretty reasonable for a place like Pattaya.Many Gay saunas let younger Thai men in for lower prices, perhaps to encourage them to attend. There is, however, a gay sauna in Bangkok which charges Thais 160 Baht and Farangs 400 Baht !!! Being a Scot, I consider this rather extortionate ( at least by Thai standards) . I also suspect that they may not really want Farang patrons ,like some saunas in Japan apparently.

[jumnien]

Again, let me remind you that Thai citizenship is not based on having Thai parents, or being racially Asian, or anything to do with racial means testing. There are white boys from California who have become Thai citizens and a host of other realities. When Thai citizens get a discount it has no racial bearing necessarily. Thailand is not like Bhutan where you have to be born Bhutanese!

[pumpuiman]

This sauna charges falang so they can meet and have sex with Thai people.

Thai's are the draw obviously, I dont get the argument here.

Well, not exactly.

The cute younger ones that so many gay people want to see in a sauna could be attracted with an AGE based discount program that has nothing to do with race/nationality.

This is a another classic case of SOAKING farangs for the sake of soaking, because they can get away with it. And with so many farangs supporting/defending this kind of race/nationality discrimination, I predict alot more businesses will join the bandwagon. Congrats!

It's a sauna aimed at tourists! In a sex tourist mecca.

I really cant fathom that this thread still continues.

This sauna owner allows Thai people in for free.

The patrons want to have sex with Thai people.

It's <deleted> marketing, plain and simple.

No conspiracy, no discrimination.

He wants your money.

period.

It may be somewhat of a sex tourist mecca, but it also a place where thousands of people live full time, Thai, farang, other foreigners, many races, a mix of ages, rich and poor.

What's your point? This thread is about pricing concerns at a gay sauna. A place created specifically for the purpose of tourists sexual gratification.

It's a whorehouse. Not some respectable business where double pricing might be a concern.

Why you are arguing the ethics of this establishment is beyond me.

[PeaceBlondie]

pumpuiman - gay saunas are not whore houses. You only pay for admission. The sex is free. Okay, not a respectable business, but maybe slightly more respectable than a full-fledged place where the customer tellls the manager, "I'll off #58 if she does everything."

[Espada]

I got the leaflet about that sauna a week ago. Have not time to check it out but I think they will be expensive. anyway, i'm a membership at Refresh fitness and spa now. more privacy and no big muscle show off

[sfokevin]

I got the leaflet about that sauna a week ago. Have not time to check it out but I think they will be expensive. anyway, i'm a membership at Refresh fitness and spa now. more privacy and no big muscle show off

Espada if that is you in the avatar I think u get in free

Edited January 18, 2007 by sfokevin

[Espada]

I got the leaflet about that sauna a week ago. Have not time to check it out but I think they will be expensive. anyway, i'm a membership at Refresh fitness and spa now. more privacy and no big muscle show off

Espada if that is you in the avatar I think u get in free

this avatar alway attract people , like me not sure farang will like big muscle Thai guy. i just work out as normal no need to pump up my body. only three world, NICE FIT SLIM

[pumpuiman]

pumpuiman - gay saunas are not whore houses. You only pay for admission. The sex is free. Okay, not a respectable business, but maybe slightly more respectable than a full-fledged place where the customer tellls the manager, "I'll off #58 if she does everything."

O.K. I'll give you that. But still, arguing the pricing/racist/discriminatory principles of this questionably "legal" business is in my opinion a lesson in futility.

It is a sex entertainment venue, of which we all know is providing a shall we say, less than legal service. Like all such venues in Thailand laws are cloudy or"overlooked".

Arguing about price at a place like this seems like arguing that the price of a barfine paid for a prostitute is too high. There is no oversight in "illegal" operations...so your only preaching to the choir in my opinion.

[Thaiquila]

Some wee points:

Most gay saunas in Thailand are specifically NOT houses of prostitution. They are non-commercial social alternatives for gay men where consensual sex often occurs. Perhaps some are confusing a gay sauna such as Babylon (which does not practise race/nationality based pricing or Sansuk which does practise race/nationality based pricing) with the scads of boy sex massage joints that sport a sauna as part of their facillities. Most definitely not the same class of business.

There are some parts of the world where a gay sauna such as Sansuk would provide commercial sex, so the confusion is understandable.

Gay saunas like the Babylon and Sansuk are NOT illegal in any way in Thailand. If I am wrong about this, please cite the Thai law. They provide a space where gay sex does occur, of course. Gay sex is totally legal in Thailand, like most countries.

Race/nationality based pricing appears to be legal in Thailand.

The current full price entry at the Sansuk (which I hope appreciates all this free publicity) is a very reasonable 180 baht. Half price for older Thais. Free for younger Thais. How Thai is defined is not clear. Do you really think they would charge the farang full price to a young Burmese? Get real.

This 180 baht is an opening promotional price, it is sure to be raised later. Again, I am not complaining that their prices are cheap or dear, that is their business decision. The issue here is the racial stereotyping of people's economic situation.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Thaiquila

[pumpuiman]

Some wee points:

Most gay saunas in Thailand are specifically NOT houses of prostitution. They are non-commercial social alternatives for gay men where consensual sex often occurs. Perhaps some are confusing a gay sauna such as Babylon (which does not practise race/nationality based pricing or Sansuk which does practise race/nationality based pricing) with the scads of boy sex massage joints that sport a sauna as part of their facillities. Most definitely not the same class of business.

There are some parts of the world where a gay sauna such as Sansuk would provide commercial sex, so the confusion is understandable.

Gay saunas like the Babylon and Sansuk are NOT illegal in any way in Thailand. If I am wrong about this, please cite the Thai law. They provide a space where gay sex does occur, of course. Gay sex is totally legal in Thailand, like most countries.

Race/nationality based pricing appears to be legal in Thailand.

The current full price entry at the Sansuk (which I hope appreciates all this free publicity) is a very reasonable 180 baht. Half price for older Thais. Free for younger Thais. How Thai is defined is not clear. Do you really think they would charge the farang full price to a young Burmese? Get real.

This 180 baht is an opening promotional price, it is sure to be raised later. Again, I am not complaining that their prices are cheap or dear, that is their business decision. The issue here is the racial stereotyping of people's economic situation.

I'm not going to quote Thai law. It's common sense. I'm sure a venue that allows group a@@ fukcing is not legal....no matter how pretty you want to paint the picture.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

[endure]

The saunas are legal. What goes on in there sometimes may not be. There is a difference.

[wowpow]

It is not RACIST as there is no way that it complies with the meaning of the word.

"Top Web Results for "racism" 4 results for: racism View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

I know that is it common these days for any difference between races being noticed and someone will, incorrectly, shout "racism". Well races do differ in many respects so we had better learn to live with that.

Double charging is not fair but:

This seems perfectly reasonable if the charge is for a national asset such as a park or a museum.

It seems to be common practice around the world to make lower charges for children, the disabled and the elderly.

It is common practice for breeder bars and discos to allow women in at a lower charge of free.

I note that all International companies charge different prices in different countries according to what the local market will bear. A tube of Colgate toothpaste costs about 40 baht in Thailand and about 111 baht in the UK.

Life is not fair and there is little point in getting over excited about it. Do what you can to change important injustices ( I find this one very low on the scale of poverty, repression and disease) and get on with life.

I went to Simon Cabaret in Chiang Mai this week. They price is 600 baht. I said "I am Thai" the cashier said "Oh! Have you ID" I gave her a photocopy of my passport and she reduced the price from 600 baht to 400 baht. I then asked if my male companion could have the same price as he was my wife but that was refused. I didn't shout Homophobia!!

[lubbkis]

It is not RACIST as there is no way that it complies with the meaning of the word.

"Top Web Results for "racism" 4 results for: racism View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

I know that is it common these days for any difference between races being noticed and someone will, incorrectly, shout "racism". Well races do differ in many respects so we had better learn to live with that.

Double charging is not fair but:

This seems perfectly reasonable if the charge is for a national asset such as a park or a museum.

It seems to be common practice around the world to make lower charges for children, the disabled and the elderly.

It is common practice for breeder bars and discos to allow women in at a lower charge of free.

I note that all International companies charge different prices in different countries according to what the local market will bear. A tube of Colgate toothpaste costs about 40 baht in Thailand and about 111 baht in the UK.

Life is not fair and there is little point in getting over excited about it. Do what you can to change important injustices ( I find this one very low on the scale of poverty, repression and disease) and get on with life.

I went to Simon Cabaret in Chiang Mai this week. They price is 600 baht. I said "I am Thai" the cashier said "Oh! Have you ID" I gave her a photocopy of my passport and she reduced the price from 600 baht to 400 baht. I then asked if my male companion could have the same price as he was my wife but that was refused. I didn't shout Homophobia!!

[Thaiquila]

Nice try, no cigar.

Racism also includes ethnocentrism and generalizations about a specific group of people (stereotype).

The pricing policies at the Sansuk Gay Sauna in Pattaya fall neatly under this definition of racism:

1. Preference for one's own ethnic group: to wit, the Sansuk Gay Sauna in Pattaya offers free or half price entrance for others of only the Thai nationality and/or other Asian groups (nobody knows whether other Asians and which Asians are receiving this racial preference, except the owner, who so far as expected is hush hush). The owner of the sauna is Thai. Special offer for Thais. Coincidence? I think not.

2. Generalizations and Stereotypes: to wit, the Sansuk Gay Sauna in Pattaya generalizes that all persons of Thai nationality or possibly other Asians do not have the same level of financial resources as farangs. It obnoxiously and falsely stereotypes farangs as having "money too much" and all Thais as being financially deprived.

The term racism is sometimes used to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism), fear of foreigners (xenophobia), views against interracial relationships (miscegenation), and/or generalizations about a specific group of people (stereotype).[2][3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Edited January 21, 2007 by Thaiquila

[popshirt]

The OP's poll question was : Do you think a sauna that has a free or lower price for ALL Thais, young AND old, rich AND poor, is RACIST?

He did not ask whether you approved of this or whether it got your panties in a bunch........it is a simple question, and by any common definition of racism is most certainly racist.

Get it?

[jumnien]

To repeat the obvious, the sauna's policies refer to Thai nationals. Since being a Thai national is not based on race, it is not racist. It is admirably nationalistic, good business policy, and compassionate in the majority of cases.

[lubbkis]

...sorry about the botched post above. I was in the middle of attempting to edit the post when the connection with Thaivisa was lost. Connections from my home (in Europe) ADSL to all Thai sites has been very bad all day. I guess that the Taiwan trench connections have not been repaired fully yet.

Edited January 21, 2007 by lubbkis

[popshirt]

<snip>How Thai is defined is not clear. Do you really think they would charge the farang full price to a young Burmese? <snip>

mdeland Posted Yesterday, 2007-01-21 19:57:30

To repeat the obvious, the sauna's policies refer to Thai nationals. Since being a Thai national is not based on race, it is not racist. It is admirably nationalistic, good business policy, and compassionate in the majority of cases.

Obvious? Not obvious to the OP or to me either, but thanks for re-stating what seems obvious to you anyway.

What about the Kareing (hill tribes in northern & north-east Thailand) who are born in Thailand but denied Thai citizenship?

I guess they are not likely to visit a sauna in Pattaya so it is just another academic question.

[jumnien]

As your stay in Thailand lengthens you will get to know many Thai citizens that are Indian, Chinese, Malay and even Thais that are white boys from California. Again, Thai citizenship is not based on racial identity. I can't state it any clearer than that. As to Kareing boys, I am sure they will be let into the sauna to pleasure the farangs.

[wowpow]

"Racism is a belief system or doctrine which states that inherent biological differences between human races determine cultural or individual achievement — with a corollary that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.[1]

Some writers have used the term racism to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism), fear of foreigners (xenophobia), views against interracial relationships (miscegenation), and/or generalizations about a specific group of people (stereotype).[2][3]

Racism has been a motivating factor in social discrimination, racial segregation and violence, including genocide. Politicians are known to practice race baiting in an effort to win votes. The term racist has been a pejorative term since at least the 1940s, and the identification of a group or person as racist is often controversial". Wikipaedia

Some writers misusing a word does not make it cover what they write and you leap to say that is so. Making the words fit your arguement! If you read the whole article in Wikipaedia you will see that the definition I quoted is the correct one though I agree that it is flagrantly and frequently misused often to slander and libel persons in a pejorative way..

[popshirt]

As your stay in Thailand lengthens you will get to know many Thai citizens that are Indian, Chinese, Malay and even Thais that are white boys from California. Again, Thai citizenship is not based on racial identity. I can't state it any clearer than that. As to Kareing boys, I am sure they will be let into the sauna to pleasure the farangs.

And you are basing this statement on the premise that the sauna's policy hinges on Thai citizenship. I don't remember seeing this "policy" posted anywhere, but I may have missed it. Have you seen it? All I recall is that the sauna's owner has been silent so far. Yes, I do know Thai citizens who are not ethnically Thai some of whom appear caucasian, but I think this is beside the point here.

[jdinasia]

Still 60/40 ... people thinking it is NOT racist ....

Relax .. if you don't like the policy then vote with your feet and don't go there!

[BigSnake]

Some, not all try to get all the baht they canfrom a Farang> BEWARE!! if you are so incline to visit a gay SAUNA.