Extremism stems from repressive states, not Western policy, says UK's Johnson

[webfact]

Extremism stems from repressive states, not Western policy, says UK's Johnson

 

Britain's Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson leaves 10 Downing Street, London, December 5, 2017. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Repressive states are to blame for breeding terrorism, Britain's foreign minister Boris Johnson will say on Thursday, in a speech defending Western foreign policy and denouncing Islamist extremism.

 

Britain suffered four deadly attacks in London and Manchester between March and June this year that killed 36 people, and on Wednesday a man appeared in court accused of plotting to kill British Prime Minister Theresa May.

 

Speaking to diplomats and experts at the Foreign Office in London, Johnson will call for better engagement with Muslim populations worldwide and argue that blaming Western intervention for the rise of Islamist extremism plays into the jihadi narrative, according to a briefing note issued by the Foreign Office.

 

"To assert, as people often do, that the terrorism we see on the streets of Britain and America is some kind of punishment for adventurism and folly in the Middle East is to ignore that these so-called punishments are visited on peoples – Swedes, Belgians, Finns or the Japanese hostages murdered by Daesh - with no such history in the region," he will say according to advanced extracts of his speech.

 

He will say that Islamist jihadism can have the "addictive power of crack cocaine".

 

(Reporting by William James; Editing by Toby Chopra)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-07

[Emster23]

Almost there Boris. try "repressive religions" and you win the prize

[BuaBS]

So what if the western policy in those states is repressive ?

[Stargeezr]

How about repressive religions, in repressive countries, and not just states??

Huh.. try the real truth.

[thaibeachlovers]

I've always liked Boris ( very un PC ), but either he's sold out or he's saying what he has been told to say ( ie he's a glove puppet ).

If he really thinks western policy in the middle east since they took over from the Turks has been beneficial to them he has lost the plot, IMO.

They lied to them during WW1 when they promised, via Lawrence, that they would get independence, and nothing much has changed since.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:28 PM, Emster23 said:

Almost there Boris. try "repressive religions" and you win the prize

Hope you are including the Catholic version of Christianity there!

[impulse]

He's correct- if you conveniently neglect the centuries old western policy of propping up those repressive states.

 

[pkspeaker]

Oh sure, supporting apartheid in israel/palestine - politically and economically.  Invading secular states like Iraq and attacking 2 other arab secular states syria & libya AND then overtly supporting alqueda terrorists groups in Syria by calling them 'moderates' when in fact they are child beheading lunatics.. I can't see how 'western policy' could possibly be 'stemming extremism'.

[evadgib]

Can British dual nationals worldwide expect same as a result of this precedent currently underway?

 

If not why not?

 

"Boris Johnson has arrived in Iran, where he will raise "grave concerns" over the imprisonment of British-Iranian Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

The UK foreign secretary will call for the release of the 37-year-old mother-of-one on humanitarian grounds, along with other dual nationals.

Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been held in Tehran since April 2016 after being accused of spying, which she denies".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42289861

Edited December 9, 2017 by evadgib

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Can British dual nationals worldwide expect same as a result of this precedent currently underway?

 

If not why not?

 

"Boris Johnson has arrived in Iran, where he will raise "grave concerns" over the imprisonment of British-Iranian Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

The UK foreign secretary will call for the release of the 37-year-old mother-of-one on humanitarian grounds, along with other dual nationals.

Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been held in Tehran since April 2016 after being accused of spying, which she denies".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42289861

Trump has not done Ratcliffe any favours.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've always liked Boris ( very un PC ), but either he's sold out or he's saying what he has been told to say ( ie he's a glove puppet ).

If he really thinks western policy in the middle east since they took over from the Turks has been beneficial to them he has lost the plot, IMO.

They lied to them during WW1 when they promised, via Lawrence, that they would get independence, and nothing much has changed since.

 

And thus...extremism?

Surely there's a wee bit more to it.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

He's correct- if you conveniently neglect the centuries old western policy of propping up those repressive states.

 

 

Centuries old western policies of propping up those repressive states.

Got to wonder about some posts.

[impulse]

On 12/7/2017 at 8:00 AM, webfact said:

"To assert, as people often do, that the terrorism we see on the streets of Britain and America is some kind of punishment for adventurism and folly in the Middle East is to ignore that these so-called punishments are visited on peoples – Swedes, Belgians, Finns or the Japanese hostages murdered by Daesh - with no such history in the region,"

 

Kind of like the Yanks and the Brits reined down death and destructive punishment on millions of Afghani's and Iraqi's when a bunch of Saudis crashed airliners into the WTC?  Dub would have gone after the Iranians too, had the lies not been exposed with enough people saying enough is enough.

 

To respond to Morch, Saudi is a perfect example of the west propping up a brutal despotic regime.  Add the Shah, Saddam, and just about every despot over the centuries that would keep the gold, the silver, the spices, the oil and the human cannon fodder flowing westward.

 

 

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Kind of like the Yanks and the Brits reined down death and destructive punishment on millions of Afghani's and Iraqi's when a bunch of Saudis crashed airliners into the WTC?  Dub would have gone after the Iranians too, had the lies not been exposed with enough people saying enough is enough.

 

To respond to Morch, Saudi is a perfect example of the west propping up a brutal despotic regime.  Add the Shah, Saddam, and just about every despot over the centuries that would keep the gold, the silver, the spices, the oil and the human cannon fodder flowing westward.

 

 

 

 

To respond to the above: do tell about them hundreds of years of western policy supporting such regimes. I mean, I'm sure you could do it without the hyperbole, but probably wouldn't be half as fun, eh? And this was unique to The West (which probably didn't even know it was The West), right? 

 

I get it some are into the collective guilt self flagellation thing, but please - a wee bit of balance wouldn't hurt. It's one thing to go on about the evils of Western policies and actions, and another to ignore any further accountability by perpetrators (such as Islamic terrorists). 

 

[impulse]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

To respond to the above: do tell about them hundreds of years of western policy supporting such regimes.

 

Euro (and later, American) colonial adventures have always included Faustian bargains with despots.  I've already given you 3 examples in the Sauds, the Shah and Saddam.  They've installed puppet regimes for centuries.  But you can Google just as well as I can...

 

Flagellation?  No.  The west is now experiencing the natural consequences of centuries of colonialism (brought to an abrupt end when the colonial powers finally bankrupted and exhausted each other with endless, incestuous wars between the related monarchies)  It's going to be more centuries before the tangled mess that they created (and from which many of us have benefited, whether we acknowledge it or not) untangles itself.  We're now paying the price for despicable way those advantages were stolen for us by our predecessors.  With the help of corrupt, despotic regimes they propped up.

 

And anyone who neglects history is bound to repeat history.

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by impulse

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And thus...extremism?

Surely there's a wee bit more to it.

To use a relevant example, the Irish rebelled against the English for 600 years and didn't stop till England withdrew under duress. Why would any population willingly accept subjugation just because it's the 21st century?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Euro (and later, American) colonial adventures have always included Faustian bargains with despots.  I've already given you 3 examples in the Sauds, the Shah and Saddam.  They've installed puppet regimes for centuries.  But you can Google just as well as I can...

 

 

One should always remember that Euro was run by despots as well.

Same as now, but the despots got more clever at hiding behind useful idiots so most just don't realise who's really in power.

IMO it's easier to control the sheeple with smartphone addiction than by beating them with clubs.

Edited December 10, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[evadgib]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To use a relevant example, the Irish rebelled against the English for 600 years and didn't stop till England withdrew under duress. Why would any population willingly accept subjugation just because it's the 21st century?

The rest of UK were involved too and had just lost 800k men in a rather costly but nonetheless victorious conflict a little further afield.

 

By the time of the withdrawal under the Good (?) Friday Agreement (GFA) the opposition had been so heavily infiltrated that they had no alternative but to give up.

 

Let's get back to Boris 

Edited December 10, 2017 by evadgib

[Morch]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Euro (and later, American) colonial adventures have always included Faustian bargains with despots.  I've already given you 3 examples in the Sauds, the Shah and Saddam.  They've installed puppet regimes for centuries.  But you can Google just as well as I can...

 

Flagellation?  No.  The west is now experiencing the natural consequences of centuries of colonialism (brought to an abrupt end when the colonial powers finally bankrupted and exhausted each other with endless, incestuous wars between the related monarchies)  It's going to be more centuries before the tangled mess that they created (and from which many of us have benefited, whether we acknowledge it or not) untangles itself.  We're now paying the price for despicable way those advantages were stolen for us by our predecessors.  With the help of corrupt, despotic regimes they propped up.

 

And anyone who neglects history is bound to repeat history.

 

 

Anyone who posts worn quotes out of context is bound to think he sounds deep.

 

Them "centuries" of supposed "western policy of propping up those repressive states" alluded to - do not apply for the rulers you cited later on. While I acknowledge some posters insist on judging any bit of history using the accepted norms of the present, nothing much explains the value of such an "analysis".

 

"The West" as a whole did not engage in s single minded policy. Nor does terrorism target only them  Western countries with such past as you describe. There isn't much African terrorism directed at "The West". Same goes for  South American, Central American, Native American, South East Asian or even Indian terrorism directed at "The West".

 

And yes, it is a point of view which centers on a supposed collective guilt trip, and it does feature self flagellation - by refusing to consider the accountability of those perpetrating such terrorist actions, and/or placing the lion share of responsibility with that imaginary collective "West".

[Morch]

54 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To use a relevant example, the Irish rebelled against the English for 600 years and didn't stop till England withdrew under duress. Why would any population willingly accept subjugation just because it's the 21st century?

 

Relevant how? Did the Irish routinely attack other "Western countries" which had nothing or little to do with their situation? Do they continue doing so today?