High-speed railway between China and Thailand to be used for cargo, not passengers?

[ratcatcher]

3 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 

Yes, that seems sensible, for everything going for onward-shipping, Laem Chabang being a MAJOR container-port.

 

With the stuff for trans-shipment onto metre-gauge, to Malaysia/Singapore/rest-of-Thailand on the SRT perhaps to the freight-yard near Ban-Sue ?  I don't really see why they'd bother to send it down to Singapore, before loading it on a ship now that we have Laem Chabang, the original imperial-era plan has evolved over-the-decades ? 

 

And I don't see why they'd want to bother to stop & offload a bit of freight between the border & Bangkok, simpler to put it onto the SRT-system there, and send it back up to its North-East destination (if going there) on the existing-system ?  KISS-principle applies !  I learned, when working for TNT many moons ago, that the origin-to-destination  routing for a shipment often goes via a couple of other hubs, it simply makes commercial sense !

 

Would you agree that whole-train operations would likely be the way the Chinese would want to run things ?  I'd say probably just the two main destinations for cargo, based on what we've currently seen/heard.  Which can change.

The Chinese wish to ship freight southwards via Laos and Thailand. My question is, " What is the final destination of these freight containers? Europe, Africa? South Asia?

It certainly would not be North American ports, that goes via Shanghai, Hong Kong, Ningbo. 

https://www.chinacheckup.com/blogs/articles/china-shipping-ports

 

If shipping to Europe by sea via Suez, surely the Andaman Sea/Indian Ocean ports would be closer and faster than Laem Chabang and Bangkok. Everything then has to pass thru the Singapore / Malacca straits.

Whatever happened to Thaksin's dream of Dawei and Thilawa on the Yangon river.I thought the Chinese were heavily into development of these ports.

Any comments? 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Dave67 said:

Yes good point, I suppose the question would be where will a cargo train stop. Thailand may well become like Laos and train passes through Thailand to Laem Chabang (Enlighten me if there somewhere else) Nonstop

 

 

 

 

 

While Laem Chabang may be one destination, the bigger prize would be a port on the west coast, which would eliminate the long haul around Singapore for freight heading westwards.

What puzzles me though, is why they don't just go for the Kra canal and then send ships direct from China.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

I suggest what he meant was that metre gauge and standard gauge sidings should be laid alongside each other, and for the containers to be"cross-decked".

 

That arrangement has been used at points where there is a "break of gauge", for a very long time, certainly more than thirty years!

 

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, and saving me the trouble.

Unfortunately, there are those in the world that can come up with every excuse possible to not do something, rather than looking at every possible solution to a problem. Such has been the curse of the world we live in since the first man decided it was better to live in a cave than build a house outside. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

The Chinese wish to ship freight southwards via Laos and Thailand. My question is, " What is the final destination of these freight containers? Europe, Africa? South Asia?

It certainly would not be North American ports, that goes via Shanghai, Hong Kong, Ningbo. 

https://www.chinacheckup.com/blogs/articles/china-shipping-ports

 

If shipping to Europe by sea via Suez, surely the Andaman Sea/Indian Ocean ports would be closer and faster than Laem Chabang and Bangkok. Everything then has to pass thru the Singapore / Malacca straits.

Whatever happened to Thaksin's dream of Dawei and Thilawa on the Yangon river.I thought the Chinese were heavily into development of these ports.

Any comments? 

Agreed. I was posting my west coast suggestion same time as you posted this one.

[Zyxel]

High speed trains for cargo? Ex-PM yingluck thought about it already. She said that the trains would be needed to transport fresh vegetables to prevent them from rotting.

 

[ChouDoufu]

change from standard guage to meter guage occurs

at two points on the china-viet border.  at dong dang

for the long-established link between nanning and

hanoi, and at hekou where the old french narrow

guage line to kunming has recently been upgraded

and put back into operation.

[ChouDoufu]

regardless of closer or faster service to whichever port,

china wants multiple port options in case of adverse

political events...

[Eric Loh]

29 minutes ago, Zyxel said:

High speed trains for cargo? Ex-PM yingluck thought about it already. She said that the trains would be needed to transport fresh vegetables to prevent them from rotting.

 

Well flowers are delivered by plane to maintain freshness. Perishable agricultural produces like vegetables and flowers that required high global standards can improve their export volume can gained from speedier delivery. I believed some EU HS train provide these service. 

[Ricardo]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What puzzles me though, is why they don't just go for the Kra canal and then send ships direct from China.

 

They've already achieved that objective, with the Malaaysian ECRL-project by-passing Thailand, IIRC it was signed last summer  ...

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/01/15/china-projects-to-hit-singapore-the-giant-republics-aggressive-investments-in-ports-and-rail-links-i/

 

"The ECRL acts as a land bridge between Port Klang and Kuantan Port and other ports along the East Coast of the peninsula. It will enable China-bound goods from Port Klang, inland and the north to be moved to Kuantan Port, without having to go south to Singapore."

[Stargeezr]

It looks like this project is to get Chinese goods to Singapore. China does not

care about Thailand at all. If the train crashes in Thailand it will be Thai people

who will die, and only the Chinese crew on the train. Looks like another plan

for a future disaster..

Geezer

 

 
 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 

They've already achieved that objective, with the Malaaysian ECRL-project by-passing Thailand, IIRC it was signed last summer  ...

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/01/15/china-projects-to-hit-singapore-the-giant-republics-aggressive-investments-in-ports-and-rail-links-i/

 

"The ECRL acts as a land bridge between Port Klang and Kuantan Port and other ports along the East Coast of the peninsula. It will enable China-bound goods from Port Klang, inland and the north to be moved to Kuantan Port, without having to go south to Singapore."

I wasn't aware of that, but a canal negates the need to unload, transport and reload ships. Also the Kra is further north reducing time needed overall.

Expensive to build, yes, but long term savings in fuel, time and handling.

Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of mining machines lying idle in Australia that could be borrowed for the job.

[Ricardo]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't aware of that, but a canal negates the need to unload, transport and reload ships. Also the Kra is further north reducing time needed overall.

Expensive to build, yes, but long term savings in fuel, time and handling.

Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of mining machines lying idle in Australia that could be borrowed for the job.

 

I think that perhaps Malaysia was willing to move now, while Thailand hasn't been notably keen on the project, also they see economic-benefits for themselves having greater links to China's booming economy ?

 

A land bridge  (port-rail-port) had also been proposed for Thailand, as one possible alternative to a canal.

 

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2017/09/24/will-the-thai-govt-build-kra-canal/

 

suggests that the Thais have been the problem, not doing what the Chinese want  ...  " The Chinese experts wanted Bangkok’s military-led government “to stop wasting any more time” and to immediately start a feasibility study on the canal, as the first step into fulfilling more than 300 years of a long-awaited dream. "

 

However the real economic-benefits of the project have also been questioned by critics  ...  "Despite the rosy assessment of Kra Canal from its proponents, critics of the project have “punched a hole” into its economic viability as the canal, located in southern Thailand’s Kra Isthmus, according to them, would only save 1,200km of sea journey, compared to “saving” 10,000km for the Suez Canal and 7,000km for the Panama Canal. The economic benefits would be negligible, they said."

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Ricardo

[Gregorio1]

On 12/8/2017 at 8:56 AM, Dave67 said:

Due the weight axel load and wheel profile of freight trains they are not compatible with High speed railway tracks, moderate speed 180kph is feasible but rail wear will be far more than passenger only

Very good point.  I am not familiar with any high speed freight lines.  High speed freight is not usually a requirement. The Chinese have convinced the Lao to participate, the estimated cost of the project is 7 billion USD.  They are starting with a loan of ~480 Million USD to Laos from China.  The Lao are guaranteeing the loan with 3 out of 5 of the countries Potash mines.   It's really hard to imagine how this project will benefit the Lao.  The construction will be completed by Chinese companies using mostly Chinese labor.  Seems most of the cash will simply flow Northward.  

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 

I think that perhaps Malaysia was willing to move now, while Thailand hasn't been notably keen on the project, also they see economic-benefits for themselves having greater links to China's booming economy ?

 

A land bridge  (port-rail-port) had also been proposed for Thailand, as one possible alternative to a canal.

 

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2017/09/24/will-the-thai-govt-build-kra-canal/

 

suggests that the Thais have been the problem, not doing what the Chinese want  ...  " The Chinese experts wanted Bangkok’s military-led government “to stop wasting any more time” and to immediately start a feasibility study on the canal, as the first step into fulfilling more than 300 years of a long-awaited dream. "

 

However the real economic-benefits of the project have also been questioned by critics  ...  "Despite the rosy assessment of Kra Canal from its proponents, critics of the project have “punched a hole” into its economic viability as the canal, located in southern Thailand’s Kra Isthmus, according to them, would only save 1,200km of sea journey, compared to “saving” 10,000km for the Suez Canal and 7,000km for the Panama Canal. The economic benefits would be negligible, they said."

 

 

Seems an absurd reason not to dig it. It may be only 1200 km for one ship, but multiply it by every ship that makes the journey and that's a lot of bunker fuel not getting burnt.

I thought the world was going to perish because of all the oil getting burned, and now they don't want to do something that will reduce oil consumption .

[Dave67]

8 hours ago, Gregorio1 said:

Very good point.  I am not familiar with any high speed freight lines.  High speed freight is not usually a requirement. The Chinese have convinced the Lao to participate, the estimated cost of the project is 7 billion USD.  They are starting with a loan of ~480 Million USD to Laos from China.  The Lao are guaranteeing the loan with 3 out of 5 of the countries Potash mines.   It's really hard to imagine how this project will benefit the Lao.  The construction will be completed by Chinese companies using mostly Chinese labor.  Seems most of the cash will simply flow Northward.  

Yeah, I can't see it benefiting Laos, probably some officials with their snouts in the trough.I'm not an expert on Thailands economics but reading up Thailands biggest export to China is rice. Some sort of depot in middle/north of the route rice could be stored and sent and back to China from Thailand, so benefit for Thailand there maybe