Hiring Foreign Teachers Should Be Made Easier

[sriracha john]

Hiring foreign teachers 'should be made easier'

The International Schools Association of Thailand (ISAT) has called on the government to relax the rules on the recruitment of foreign teachers, saying strict criminal background checks of applicants was making it extremely difficult for schools to recruit foreign staff. Education Minister Wijit Srisa-arn said ISAT representatives recently met him to air international schools' problems regarding the tough recruitment criteria. They claimed the requirement for international schools to thoroughly check the criminal records of applicants before recruiting them was impractical.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/16Jan2007_news10.php

[Loaded]

Hiring foreign teachers 'should be made easier'

The International Schools Association of Thailand (ISAT) has called on the government to relax the rules on the recruitment of foreign teachers, saying strict criminal background checks of applicants was making it extremely difficult for schools to recruit foreign staff. Education Minister Wijit Srisa-arn said ISAT representatives recently met him to air international schools' problems regarding the tough recruitment criteria. They claimed the requirement for international schools to thoroughly check the criminal records of applicants before recruiting them was impractical.

]

If International Schools, who pay top dollar to teachers, can't attract teachers because of this check, what hope does Watcharitwalyatrasritannapaannr have.

[sensei]

"saying strict criminal background checks of applicants was making it extremely difficult for schools to recruit foreign staff."

I don't agree with any of the BS stated above.

Schools are hiring foreigners to teach children.

There is a big risk involved here.

No one can deny the fact that Thai students

are already on the losing end of the bargain

by being taught by foreigners who never had

formal training nor experience as a teacher.

Putting these kids in the hands of someone

who has a criminal record in his home country

is a far more serious matter.

Besides, if a teacher doesn't have anything to hide,

He might as well carry along a copy of

his police record to save his potential employer all the fuss.

Edited January 16, 2007 by sensei

[PeaceBlondie]

Thankfully, ISAT has stepped up to the plate to try to get to first base with the Thai education authorities. Let's hope that ISAT is a major league hitter in this game, because those Wichaicanathinkalot schools can't even get the ear of their provincial authorities.

sensai, of course Thai kids deserve the best, they deserve all kinds of things, including well educated teachers (Thai and farang and Filipino) who aren't criminals. What ISAT and many of us have been saying for a long time, is that these background checks, visa requirements, work permits, teacher's licenses, etc., are not PRACTICAL. Schools can't even figure out how to do that, including schools like the ones in ISAT who charge almost a million baht of tuition per year. Schools are often inept and unmotivated. The requirements are made in some bureaucratic ivory tower full of half-educated Thais who don't know Iceland from Ireland, who think ....well, they don't think it through.

What are the teachers' websites saying: DO NOT COME TO THAILAND TO TEACH. Don't even think about trying to jump through hoops and reaching goalposts that keep moving into the Thai horizon.

Thai students deserve great education, but 99% of them have never gotten what they deserve. Having stupid, impractical, unworkable requirements will only drive qualified teachers to Burma and Cambodia and Vietnam and Vanatu. Many schools have no ethics that insist on obeying Thai law, and many schools will hire less qualified criminals and drunks.

[sensei]

Yeah, I know what you are saying.

erecting hoops and goalposts

and moving it while someone is airborne

is not the best idea around.

Although it is right to make hiring foreign teachers an easier thing,

it shouldn't be done at the expense of the students.

Peace.

Edited January 16, 2007 by sensei

[Ijustwannateach]

As I've said on another thread, the problem is not the principle but the timing. It take months already to get someone up to speed legally (and the true-blue international schools really do often take pains to be completely legal in their schedules), and this will add another several months (as long as 6-8 in some cases) to the queue, with little to no notice for the school systems involved.

Schools which do not try to do things completely legally will be punished and have to shape up if these regulations are really enforced, but it's much more likely that teachers will be hired and then a condition of continued employment will be eventual completion of criminal check. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.

"Steven

[griser]

I really think that a criminal check SHOULD be required from your home country. Really thats the only way that a school can be reasonably sure that you aren't some mad child rapist!

I'd like to propose a way through this ugly mess of paperwork currently required by the Thai authorities.

1. Require a police check from the home country. This is fairly easy to get in America, not sure about other countries

2. Create a English Teaching assistant Job title that Non degree holders can get at a school legally. Some sort of arrangement where they work with a English language quailified Thai teacher as a duo. A Tefl or Equivelant would be needed for this.

3. allow degree holders to work alone at the schools unsupervised as needed. again, Degree checking should be maintained here as well as the police check. This position should of course pay more than the former.

This it seems would streamline the process for most applicants. Hopefully some Thai authority in the MoE is reading....

Greg

Edited January 16, 2007 by griser

[TerryLH]

PB

I'm a bit surprised by your last post here. On one hand you say the kids deserve it ..., but then you seem to be saying it's not worth trying.

If they try, even if they get it wrong at first, it's a step in the right direction. They'll eventually figure out what they need to do; but only if they try.

Ijustwannateach

I agree with your last paragraph.

I don't agree with your estimate of time it takes to get legal now. In my experience everything can be done much quicker than that.

[PeaceBlondie]

Great suggestions, griser. Let's hope some very highly placed, influential Thais are reading.

In America, it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get an FBI clearance, with fingerprints. But the local police or sheriff might do it much more quickly. From here, however, it would take 3 months if you're lucky. I'm all for having background checks, if it can be done effectively. Here's hoping. Don't hold your breath, though.

[griser]

Great suggestions, griser. Let's hope some very highly placed, influential Thais are reading.

In America, it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get an FBI clearance, with fingerprints. But the local police or sheriff might do it much more quickly. From here, however, it would take 3 months if you're lucky. I'm all for having background checks, if it can be done effectively. Here's hoping. Don't hold your breath, though.

Thank you PB, I appreciate that. I think that a police check from a state or local source would suffice. At least it would show any federal outstanding warrants on the person. local police checks can be gotten fairly easy. you just need a detective agency to do it in most cases. Im sure some agency would do it at a reasonable price.

As for GB, Australia or NZ. What are the requirements for getting a local area police check, much the same as America I bet.

Any of our brothers from across the pond care to guess?

Greg

[mark lamai]

in Aus at least you need a police check to teach.

every 5 years maybe, i forget.

Victoria have a teachers registration dept.

so the teachers card i am issued verifies that i have had a police clearance.

an individual i think can request one for him/herself for a few dollars.

so even if not a teacher it would be worth getting one before you come to a foreign country to teach or do anything about employment.

-----------------------

thailand gets more bad press today with an alleged english child rapist caught in bangkok,

said to have been a teacher.

government passes laws to look good,

but don't want to actually do any work involved in implementing it.

most schools could not care less,

coz its about making money, not education.

[Jonson83]

I really think that a criminal check SHOULD be required from your home country. Really thats the only way that a school can be reasonably sure that you aren't some mad child rapist!

I'd like to propose a way through this ugly mess of paperwork currently required by the Thai authorities.

1. Require a police check from the home country. This is fairly easy to get in America, not sure about other countries

2. Create a English Teaching assistant Job title that Non degree holders can get at a school legally. Some sort of arrangement where they work with a English language quailified Thai teacher as a duo. A Tefl or Equivelant would be needed for this.

3. allow degree holders to work alone at the schools unsupervised as needed. again, Degree checking should be maintained here as well as the police check. This position should of course pay more than the former.

This it seems would streamline the process for most applicants. Hopefully some Thai authority in the MoE is reading....

Greg

Those that are actually qualified to teach should be the ones earning the most.Not just anyone with a degree....

[Jonson83]

Just saw this on BBC news...

'British man arrested in Thailand

Thai police have arrested a man wanted for questioning in Britain over the alleged rape of a young girl.

Sean McMahon, 45, was detained in Torbay, Devon, in April 1999, but disappeared while on bail.

The Thai authorities say he was arrested at his home in Bangkok, at the request of the British embassy.

He has been working as an English teacher at an international school and Thai police say they have been tracking him for some time.

He was finally traced to his apartment on the northern outskirts of the capital on Monday evening.

This case is likely to raise fresh concerns about vetting procedures used by Thai schools to recruit foreign teaching staff.

Last year, an American teacher was deported from Thailand after serving a one-year jail sentence for abusing teenage boys. '

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6266791.stm

I don't think these police checks are going to go away anytime soon.....

[Ijustwannateach]

Those considering the steps on this thread should also realise: many of those of us teaching haven't been IN our "home" countries for many years as a worker or resident; in my case, it's double digits. No police report from back home would actually cover anything I've done abroad. Pragmatically speaking, one should set a time period and request police reports covering that time period, from whichever countries.

The timing is the problem. All these different countries! Not just English speaking ones, either. That's why I think that the regulation should allow for work to begin with the understanding that the contract will be considered null and void if reasonable progress is not eventually made on the police-report front- much the same as the situation with visas, teacher's licensing, and so forth.

Terry,

Thanks, but in my experience and talking with others who work here, the time it takes to "get legal" varies wildly- from two weeks to never, basically. There's no way to "force" the school to do anything about it without quitting, either.

Greg,

Your ideas make sense, but probably too much sense for them to be adopted. And I would only agree if it were clear that the teaching METHOD would be controlled by the "assistant," because I have seen the failure of the type of program you describe in Japan- power-tripping Japanese teachers forcing the so-called native speaker into the role of human tape recorder.

"Steven"

[griser]

I really think that a criminal check SHOULD be required from your home country. Really thats the only way that a school can be reasonably sure that you aren't some mad child rapist!

I'd like to propose a way through this ugly mess of paperwork currently required by the Thai authorities.

1. Require a police check from the home country. This is fairly easy to get in America, not sure about other countries

2. Create a English Teaching assistant Job title that Non degree holders can get at a school legally. Some sort of arrangement where they work with a English language quailified Thai teacher as a duo. A Tefl or Equivelant would be needed for this.

3. allow degree holders to work alone at the schools unsupervised as needed. again, Degree checking should be maintained here as well as the police check. This position should of course pay more than the former.

This it seems would streamline the process for most applicants. Hopefully some Thai authority in the MoE is reading....

Greg

Those that are actually qualified to teach should be the ones earning the most.Not just anyone with a degree....

oh I agree! that goes without saying...

If your a qualified teacher in your own country you should definitely make more than a person with just a degree

Greg

[griser]

Those considering the steps on this thread should also realise: many of those of us teaching haven't been IN our "home" countries for many years as a worker or resident; in my case, it's double digits. No police report from back home would actually cover anything I've done abroad. Pragmatically speaking, one should set a time period and request police reports covering that time period, from whichever countries.

The timing is the problem. All these different countries! Not just English speaking ones, either. That's why I think that the regulation should allow for work to begin with the understanding that the contract will be considered null and void if reasonable progress is not eventually made on the police-report front- much the same as the situation with visas, teacher's licensing, and so forth.

Terry,

Thanks, but in my experience and talking with others who work here, the time it takes to "get legal" varies wildly- from two weeks to never, basically. There's no way to "force" the school to do anything about it without quitting, either.

Greg,

Your ideas make sense, but probably too much sense for them to be adopted. And I would only agree if it were clear that the teaching METHOD would be controlled by the "assistant," because I have seen the failure of the type of program you describe in Japan- power-tripping Japanese teachers forcing the so-called native speaker into the role of human tape recorder.

"Steven"

Steven, I agree. But you know Thai schools, those ASSISTANT teachers will likey be the only teacher in the room.

Greg

[sriracha john]

Just saw this on BBC news...

'British man arrested in Thailand

Thai police have arrested a man wanted for questioning in Britain over the alleged rape of a young girl.

Sean McMahon, 45, was detained in Torbay, Devon, in April 1999, but disappeared while on bail.

The Thai authorities say he was arrested at his home in Bangkok, at the request of the British embassy.

He has been working as an English teacher at an international school and Thai police say they have been tracking him for some time.

He was finally traced to his apartment on the northern outskirts of the capital on Monday evening.

This case is likely to raise fresh concerns about vetting procedures used by Thai schools to recruit foreign teaching staff.

Last year, an American teacher was deported from Thailand after serving a one-year jail sentence for abusing teenage boys. '

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6266791.stm

I don't think these police checks are going to go away anytime soon.....

thaivisa thread:

Thai Police Arrest British Man Wanted On Child Rape Charges

He apparently worked in Bangkok for the past 4 years. Anyone recognize his photo?

Edited January 16, 2007 by sriracha john

[griser]

All the more reason we should have police reports on teachers. If we did, we wouldn't have these lowlifes messing around with our livelyhood!

Greg

[Ijustwannateach]

SRJ, there've probably been a dozen times as many stories over any period of time you care to name about abusive Thai teachers in the classroom, too. You've a point, that police checks would have prevented some problems, but *most* foreign teachers here are not former or current offenders, and the discussion here is mainly over logistics and paperwork, not objecting to the principle. I don't want to see this thread turn into a laundry list of all past criminal incidents involving foreign teachers.

"Steven"

[sriracha john]

SRJ Greg, there've probably been a dozen times as many stories over any period of time you care to name about abusive Thai teachers in the classroom, too. You've a point, that police checks would have prevented some problems, but *most* foreign teachers here are not former or current offenders, and the discussion here is mainly over logistics and paperwork, not objecting to the principle. I don't want to see this thread turn into a laundry list of all past criminal incidents involving foreign teachers.

"Steven"

Would I be correct with the above strike-through, Steven?

My post was to inform others of another thread on this specific topic.

Edited January 16, 2007 by sriracha john

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, actually it would be both you and Jonson, who both mentioned past problem teachers. My point was that no one's arguing with the need to vet teachers- both Thai and foreign - but the trouble is in the details and the timing.

[markg]

My point was that no one's arguing with the need to vet teachers- both Thai and foreign - but the trouble is in the details and the timing.

Aint that the truth.

Here's 2 scenarios.

1. The British guy above, wanted in connection with the rape of a child. Lets suppose he walks free from court. A standard UK police check would show he is clean. The CRB check would probably have a couple of red flags on it.

Would you employ him on his standard police check? Would you employ him if you saw his CRB check?

2. A journeyman TEFLer does 3 years at the chalkface at a number of schools in the LOS. He is suspected of kiddie fiddling, no charges are leveled, he does a runner to a different school. Same thing happens but this time charges are filed and a warrant issued. He escapes to Vietnam. Where he does the same. This time he escapes to the Philippines. After 9 years of kiddie fiddling and nearly getting caught - he returns back to Farangland.

Where he gets a job in a school in the UK on the strength of his clean police record and CRB check.

Any check is better than no check. But no check is 100% watertight.

Monitoring teachers regularly in my view, is probably more reliable than a piece of paper with a smudged rubber stamp on it.