Trump says China 'Caught RED HANDED' allowing oil into North Korea

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think you will find the overarching concern is to avoid troop casualties these days. Drones are the thing

 

But my point is this, if you're going to threaten, then follow through. I don't think the Americans have the balls; the Japanese would 

Americans don't have the balls? To what sort of balls do you refer? What sort of balls does it take to start a nuclear war?

 

Your statement that you should always follow through with a threat is hardly that of experience. Sabre rattling is as old as, well, war-club rattling. Don't forget, America is the only nation to use nuclear arms against an enemy. And, if need be, I do not doubt we will again. Now, it seems "need" is the catch, doesn't it? You have to remember who is doing the threatening.  As with many things Trump says; if the need never arises, I'll wager he will waffle a change in direction then, deny he ever threatened in the first place.

Edited December 29, 2017 by smotherb

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

The fact that NK are developing Nuclear weapons which can hit the USA, gives the USA a reason to want to try to stop that happening

 

Really?

 

Both Russia and China have nuclear weapons that can hit the USA and have done for decades so will Trump try to obliterate them too?

[Coconutman]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Hmmm,  Trump is now going to police China?  That should go well.

China is no ones friend

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Americans don't have the balls? To what sort of balls do you refer? What sort of balls does it take to start a nuclear war?

 

Your statement that you should always follow through with a threat is hardly that of experience. Sabre rattling is as old as, well, war-club rattling. Don't forget, America is the only nation to use nuclear arms against an enemy. And, if need be, I do not doubt we will again. Now, it seems "need" is the catch, doesn't it? You have to remember who is doing the threatening.  As with many things Trump says; if the need never arises, I'll wager he will waffle a change in direction then, deny he ever threatened in the first place.

Testicles

 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Testicles

 

Why do you think setting up an enforced exclusion zone would trigger nuclear war? Get a grip!

 

The Americans seem surprisingly fearful of standing up to blackmail, unless, of course it is a vastly weaker country.

 

Fortitude is what is required! Moral courage and fortitude. I won't hold my breath...

Edited December 29, 2017 by Grouse

[maxman71]

It is unbelievable the dolts on TV who are ignorant of the history of the conflict between N and S Korea. Here is a brief refresher: After the Korean Peninsula was divided at the 38th parallel after WWII, Kim Il Sung (the grandfather of the current FatBoy Kim), the founder of the Communist N Korea wanted to "reunite" with S Korea. Chairman Mao of China goaded Kim Il Sung to INVADE S Korea, promising Kim that he would step in with hundreds of thousands of Chinese Red Army troops in the event things went badly for Kim. Mao also persuaded Josef Stalin of the Soviet Union to provide armaments to N Korea, but Stalin refused to commit any troops. The US-led UN effort to push back N Korea from their invasion led to US Gen. MacArthur to drive all the way to the Yalu River border of N Korea and China. That's when Mao dumped about 300,000 Red Army troops and pushed MacArthur back below the 38th parallel. Then the war became a brutal stalemate which led to the current armistice that's been in place since the 1950's.

 

So, to somehow construe that the US is up to some sort of nefarious plot to invade N Korea is hogwash. The US has ZERO interest or benefit in taking over N Korea and the Chinese will NEVER allow for the US or a western power to be on its borders.

 

But, given that there is a plethora of US-haters on TV no matter what the US does or doesn't do, the facts will elude them.

[Basil B]

Trump should have seen this one coming...

 

The only reason China agreed to to the sanctions was there is no way the US or anyone else can get observers to the North Korean/China border so they can pipe oil in as if there is no tomorrow while all other routes are blockaded, so not only being the sole supplier of sanction busting oil to NK the Chinese can name there own price too...  

[baboon]

1 hour ago, maxman71 said:

It is unbelievable the dolts on TV who are ignorant of the history of the conflict between N and S Korea. Here is a brief refresher: After the Korean Peninsula was divided at the 38th parallel after WWII, Kim Il Sung (the grandfather of the current FatBoy Kim), the founder of the Communist N Korea wanted to "reunite" with S Korea. Chairman Mao of China goaded Kim Il Sung to INVADE S Korea, promising Kim that he would step in with hundreds of thousands of Chinese Red Army troops in the event things went badly for Kim. Mao also persuaded Josef Stalin of the Soviet Union to provide armaments to N Korea, but Stalin refused to commit any troops. The US-led UN effort to push back N Korea from their invasion led to US Gen. MacArthur to drive all the way to the Yalu River border of N Korea and China. That's when Mao dumped about 300,000 Red Army troops and pushed MacArthur back below the 38th parallel. Then the war became a brutal stalemate which led to the current armistice that's been in place since the 1950's.

 

So, to somehow construe that the US is up to some sort of nefarious plot to invade N Korea is hogwash. The US has ZERO interest or benefit in taking over N Korea and the Chinese will NEVER allow for the US or a western power to be on its borders.

 

But, given that there is a plethora of US-haters on TV no matter what the US does or doesn't do, the facts will elude them.

Your citations?

Also WHY was Korea divided at the end of WWII? Did the Koreans ask for this?

Edited December 29, 2017 by baboon

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

Really?

Both Russia and China have nuclear weapons that can hit the USA and have done for decades so will Trump try to obliterate them too?

no

[gintis0604]

21 hours ago, sanemax said:

NK has not yet developed the ability to launch Nuclear bombs , although they have developed nukes, they have yet been able to attach the to missiles , so, they are unable to use them against the USA .

   The USA have no reason or desire  to invade North Korea .

Did they have reason to invade Irak? 

There are never REASONS to invade an other country! 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, gintis0604 said:

Did they have reason to invade Irak? 

There are never REASONS to invade an other country! 

I do think that it was because Iraq invaded Kuwait

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

WHY was Korea divided at the end of WWII?

Simple enough.

Communist Russia vs Democratic USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea

Now it's Communist China and Oligarchy Russia vs Democratic USA

 

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

This really isnt about just Trump and NK, this effects the whole World.

This is the World against NK, rather than the world and NK against Trump

No, it is not, see the boycott threads.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, it is not, see the boycott threads.

The U.N. voted overwhelmingly to impose sanctions on North Korea

[baboon]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Simple enough.

Communist Russia vs Democratic USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea

Now it's Communist China and Oligarchy Russia vs Democratic USA

 

You really, really don't want to go there with the goodies v baddies argument or mention democracy when it comes to Sygman Rhee...

[stevenl]

41 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The U.N. voted overwhelmingly to impose sanctions on North Korea

So you choose to ignore what is happening in the real world, but in stead stick to the words only world of the UN.

 

Up to you mate, but your claim that this is the world vs NK has been proven not true.

Edited December 30, 2017 by stevenl

[sanemax]

Just now, stevenl said:

So you choose to ignore what is happening in the real world, but in stead stick to the UN world.

Up to you mate, but your claim that this is the world vs NK has been proven not true.

Well, the U.N did make a resolution , to which an overwhelming majority Countries agreed upon , to impose sanctions on N.K.

   Although China seems to have broken some of those sanctions .

If the North Koreans are suffering terribly , the people starving/freezing  to death , you can understand former allies wanting to help the people

[zaphod reborn]

23 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

China is cutting into Trump's and Putin's prospective profits of selling oil from Sibur, shipping it through Navigator, to the sanctioned North Korea.  The key man in the chain is Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross.  Putin and Trump owe Ross a favor because he was key in laundering dirty Russian oligarch money through Cypress Bank to Deutsche Bank and then in the form of loans to Trump.  Mueller will put it all together, but doubtful Congress or the American public will understand that Trump's presidency was all a get rich scheme for Putin and Trump. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross linked to Putin's family through oil shipping and Cypress Bank ties

And now it is confirmed that Russia is also selling oil to sanctioned North Korea.  Trump just out protecting Putin's profits.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-russia-oil-exclus/exclusive-russian-tankers-fueled-north-korea-via-transfers-at-sea-idUSKBN1EN1OJ

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well, the U.N did make a resolution , to which an overwhelming majority Countries agreed upon , to impose sanctions on N.K.

   Although China seems to have broken some of those sanctions .

If the North Koreans are suffering terribly , the people starving/freezing  to death , you can understand former allies wanting to help the people

China and Russia. As said, UN is only words, actions matter.

[smotherb]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

Why do you think setting up an enforced exclusion zone would trigger nuclear war? Get a grip!

 

The Americans seem surprisingly fearful of standing up to blackmail, unless, of course it is a vastly weaker country.

 

Fortitude is what is required! Moral courage and fortitude. I won't hold my breath...

No, Americans seem to prefer to wait until some misguided souls get themselves farther into it than they can handle; then we spend our manpower, wealth and resources getting them out of the quagmires they have gotten themselves into, helping them rebuild their countries and their economies and continue to bolster their fledgling existence until the next time we have to get them out of something else. Or, perhaps, you have forgotten.  

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

China and Russia. As said, UN is only words, actions matter.

China and Russia are part of the sanctions against North Korea .

They have stopped general trade with them and have just been selling them fuel , apart from that, all other sanctions are inplace

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

China and Russia are part of the sanctions against North Korea .

They have stopped general trade with them and have just been selling them fuel , apart from that, all other sanctions are inplace

So now you have gone from: 'it is a united UN block', to 'only China is doing that' to 'Russia and China are doing it but it is only fuel'. You're on the way to the real world, but still not there.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So now you have gone from: 'it is a united UN block', to 'only China is doing that' to 'Russia and China are doing it but it is only fuel'. You're on the way to the real world, but still not there.

Welcome to 2017, where it seems to be considered acceptable to just make up any old flapdoodle as you go along and post it on social media as fact...

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So now you have gone from: 'it is a united UN block', to 'only China is doing that' to 'Russia and China are doing it but it is only fuel'. You're on the way to the real world, but still not there.

No I havent .

China and Russia are not trading with North Korea normally , they are part of the embargo .

Although China and Russia may be giving NK fuel quietly, off the record ., they are not trading with them normally

[Grouse]

34 minutes ago, smotherb said:

No, Americans seem to prefer to wait until some misguided souls get themselves farther into it than they can handle; then we spend our manpower, wealth and resources getting them out of the quagmires they have gotten themselves into, helping them rebuild their countries and their economies and continue to bolster their fledgling existence until the next time we have to get them out of something else. Or, perhaps, you have forgotten.  

Amuse me; examples?

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No I havent .

China and Russia are not trading with North Korea normally , they are part of the embargo .

Although China and Russia may be giving NK fuel quietly, off the record ., they are not trading with them normally

As I said, you're not there yet.

 

And that's my last word on this.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

Welcome to 2017, where it seems to be considered acceptable to just make up any old flapdoodle as you go along and post it on social media as fact...

China have denied breaking the sanctions , which shows sanctions from China to NK are a fact and in place .

   Whether China has broken those sanctions is a different matter as to whether those sanctions exist

[midas]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:02 AM, sanemax said:

NK has not yet developed the ability to launch Nuclear bombs , although they have developed nukes, they have yet been able to attach the to missiles , so, they are unable to use them against the USA .

   The USA have no reason or desire  to invade North Korea .

 Well I sincerely hope Trump and the Pentagon are better informed than you are 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, midas said:

 Well I sincerely hope Trump and the Pentagon are better informed than you are 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

I did mean that if North Korean doesnt threaten the USA , then the US would have no reason to attack NK .

  (Although I can understand the misunderstanding, from what I wrote)

[billd766]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

no

 

So why then pick on N Korea?

 

Why not pick on India, Pakistan or even Israel who also have nuclear weapons?

 

I believe that it is NOT the choice of the people of the USA nor of the military but the choice of the President, Donald Trump.

 

Fortunately so far he has been controlled by his advisors and the US military but technically he can overrule them.