Maintaining That 100,000 Baht Pm Lifestyle

[meom]

For Brits such as myself who have been out here for a long time, its useful to remember how rich the UK has become in the last twenty years.Obviously there are regional disparities but by any reasonable standard the country is very rich and professionals are very well paid.Bt 100,000 pm (say Pnds 17,000 pa) would be the starting salary for a 22 year old graduate.A reasonably successful lawyer or accountant would be on Pnds 60,000 pa(say Bt 350,000 pm) by their early 30's.My nephew who is 35 and works for a London investment bank earns Pnds 250,000 (say Bt1.45m pm) including bonus.Doctors on average earn well over Pnds 100,000 pa (say Bt580,000pm).And so it goes on.

Why does this surprise anyone? My sinking feeling is that an underclass which earns nothing like these sums is growing -ugly,boorish, uneducated and angry.

That doesn't surprise me.

What does surprise me is how the OP went from being a TEFL'r, living on 25K baht/month to a job that apparently allows him to save 670K pounds in a 10 year period or on average 54K a year at 5% return. He doesn't sound like a rocket scientist, doctor or investment banker so I kinda wonder what type of work he's doing.

[Desertexile]

Nice story Mate - and good luck to you too.

For me, I'm prepared to take 9-10 years out of Thailand to secure the dream I have for me and the Mrs. Thailand will still be there when I get back. I'll be 38.

Each to their own.

I admire you for living your life how you want and for making the decision that you have mde for yourself, and for your kids.

And cheers Gents for all the ideas.

[Desertexile]

Meon

TEFL teacher - Supervisor - Director of Studies ( a posh name for the head TEFLer) - Project manager - Projects Manager - Business Development Manager.... which basiclaly means I have scope to make a very nice pakcge and will set me up to reach my goals.

I work like Kunta Kintey - I dont want to do it forever. I want to live in my small fishing village in Thailand and smoke weed, However, I want the freedom to choose!

Anyways, you are right - I am no rocket scientist. But I know how to network, bring people together and make my 5%.

Happy happy happy

Edited January 23, 2007 by Desertexile

[meom]

Agree with you exile and hope you can stick to your plans.

I ain't got the self discipline myself so when on leave I piss/give away most of my savings and probably look to a life time of working (and whoring and drinking in between for as long as it lasts )

[manjara]

If I didn't have kids, then 100k would do nicely, but with kids, you need at least 50k per kid/month to be comfortable.

Oh dear! I'm having my second child in a couple of weeks and don't get 50,000 for all of us.

Your definition of comfartable is obvioulsy much different to mine. 50,000 and I would be comfortable.

When both my kids are in secondary school, I'd say I'll need maybe 5,000 per kid.

.....

Neeranam, you're right, if we lived outside Bangkok or even just lived more like an average Thai family, then 50k would be enough.

My wife expects more, now that she has married a rich farang (!? her impression, not mine), and we spend way too much on things that Thais would not. We travel to the north a lot, and each trip involves a lot of outgoings. We go to the beach and stay in nice hotels (but not Marriott or something like that), we go out shopping most weekends which always ends in a big expense.

We eat out far too much, but at thai places, not expnsive farang ones. I spent 25k on hospital bills last month, and about 8k on petrol.

I have a friend who works in the City in London and he's always complaing that he has nothing left at the end of the month, and he gets about 7 times what I get here!

The main thing is not to spend more than you earn, providing you can happily live within your means then it doesn't matter what you earn/spend.

[younghusband]

Why does this surprise anyone? My sinking feeling is that an underclass which earns nothing like these sums is growing -ugly,boorish, uneducated and angry.

Those people are no longer in Britain. They are walking the streets of lower Sukhumvit and Pattaya right now.

This is one of the times when "never was a truer word spoken in jest" comes to mind.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(bendix @ 2007-01-23 17:21:12)

QUOTE(younghusband @ 2007-01-23 16:36:59)

Why does this surprise anyone? My sinking feeling is that an underclass which earns nothing like these sums is growing -ugly,boorish, uneducated and angry.

Those people are no longer in Britain. They are walking the streets of lower Sukhumvit and Pattaya right now.

This is one of the times when "never was a truer word spoken in jest" comes to mind.

[Blake7]

I can't really break it down mate - its not an exact science. I have a house in Thailand so the 100K would go on living expenses, sanook, travel and all that. Really, 20K GBP is not much if you fancy getting a plane for an overseas holiday or a local jolly. I spend much more than that when I'm on a month long jolly to Thailand nowadays....

I guess you know what the average Thai person gets?

I know many people with families, car and house re-payments etc who have a happy life on 20,000 baht. You need five times that for living expenses - what a jerk.

And how many of those wish they were on 100k a month?

If you really want to hurl scorn I spend much more than 100k a month - more like 200k

[NovaBlue05]

I doubt I would actually spend even 50K (no kids to school) a month but I would insist on having at least a reliable 100K a month capability before moving to Thailand just because I am cautious and tend to worry about unexpected things. Besides that, I don't have an extravagent lifestyle in general but if I decide I want something...a new computer, home improvement, hobby, travel....whatever....then I want to be able to do it. In a land of disappearing pensions, Im lucky enough to have a stable pension so I wont need a ton of cash in investments to rely on. I am also lucky enough have a lot of equity in my modest house thanks to the real estate bubble. 100K has been pretty much my target $$$ amount for a move in a few years. Beyond that, if I am lucky enough to live to 62 and social security is still available, then I will have an additional 50K a month kick in.

[Naam]

Dunno Dr. Naam. With a track record like that, you'd agree, one would think you'd be a world-famous portfolio manager. Certainly with no time or inkling to post on an expat forum like this?

portfolio managers don't have the freedom to invest in whatever they want but have rather strict guidelines.

they manage the money of their clients, i managed my own money and was free in my decisions especially the risks i was taking... risks which i don't take anymore nowadays. i belong to a lose group -consisting of several dozens private investors, bankers and traders- who keep daily contact around the clock and for many years our motto was "do exactly the opposite what the fund managers do and what analysts advise!".

by the way, most managers of high risk hedge funds would pity me for my rather meagre performance which will drop this year most probably to 10-12% due to the fact that i reduced my trading by 90%... perhaps in future even more.

as far as inflation is concerned it would have been impossible to factor that into my performance as i kept three properties in three different countries and had variable expenses in different currencies. now -living in Thailand- inflation or the appreciation of the THB are the least of my concerns as i pay no income tax for my offshore proceeds. in my home country the local finance chap would ask for 46% of all of my proceeds which is 50% more than my total expenses!

edited: "local finance chap" = the TAXMAN.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Dr. Naam

[Desertexile]

I can't really break it down mate - its not an exact science. I have a house in Thailand so the 100K would go on living expenses, sanook, travel and all that. Really, 20K GBP is not much if you fancy getting a plane for an overseas holiday or a local jolly. I spend much more than that when I'm on a month long jolly to Thailand nowadays....

I guess you know what the average Thai person gets?

I know many people with families, car and house re-payments etc who have a happy life on 20,000 baht. You need five times that for living expenses - what a jerk.

And how many of those wish they were on 100k a month?

If you really want to hurl scorn I spend much more than 100k a month - more like 200k

I guess if this guys is trying to provide for a wife and 2 kids on 35K then 100K must seem like a large amount of money, hence the initial dig at me.

Really, it can't be an easy decision to do that, so you gotta respect him for it.

For me, I would want to give any kids I had options for the future.

But, the poster is happy being like a Thai, so it kinda adds up for him to bring his nippers up to the same standard.

Good on him I say. What you have never knows you can't miss!

[Mike45]

I can't really break it down mate - its not an exact science. I have a house in Thailand so the 100K would go on living expenses, sanook, travel and all that. Really, 20K GBP is not much if you fancy getting a plane for an overseas holiday or a local jolly. I spend much more than that when I'm on a month long jolly to Thailand nowadays....

I guess you know what the average Thai person gets?

I know many people with families, car and house re-payments etc who have a happy life on 20,000 baht. You need five times that for living expenses - what a jerk.

And how many of those wish they were on 100k a month?

If you really want to hurl scorn I spend much more than 100k a month - more like 200k

I guess if this guys is trying to provide for a wife and 2 kids on 35K then 100K must seem like a large amount of money, hence the initial dig at me.

Really, it can't be an easy decision to do that, so you gotta respect him for it.

For me, I would want to give any kids I had options for the future.

But, the poster is happy being like a Thai, so it kinda adds up for him to bring his nippers up to the same standard.

Good on him I say. What you have never knows you can't miss!

I have read this entire thread and I can tell you that at times I was frightened by the amounts of money that people say you need to live in the LOS.

I don't have it and if I want to retire early I probably never will. I can build a house in Issan, which is where I want to live. I just can't see staying at work longer because I am just not enjoying it any more.

Besides I am told that there are statistics out there that an early retirement will actually let you live longer. I don't drink, smoke or live an extravagant lifestyle. I feel confident that with the savings I have now and then my pension kicking in when I turn 55 and then SS kicking in when I turn 62 that I should be able to live the same simple life in the LOS or the USA.

On the subject of kids being raised like a Thai, I presume that means with a lot less ie: i-pods, laptops, video games, cars, western education etc.. I have raised my kids with all those things here in the USA.

I can tell you from my experience that they will probably be a lot better off without them. I have been very impressed by my wife and her family members. Good people with good educations and everyone of them hard workers that know how to take care of themselves and appreciate what they have and what they have accomplished.

Mike

[ColPyat]

I have read this entire thread and I can tell you that at times I was frightened by the amounts of money that people say you need to live in the LOS.

I don't have it and if I want to retire early I probably never will. I can build a house in Issan, which is where I want to live. I just can't see staying at work longer because I am just not enjoying it any more.

Besides I am told that there are statistics out there that an early retirement will actually let you live longer. I don't drink, smoke or live an extravagant lifestyle. I feel confident that with the savings I have now and then my pension kicking in when I turn 55 and then SS kicking in when I turn 62 that I should be able to live the same simple life in the LOS or the USA.

On the subject of kids being raised like a Thai, I presume that means with a lot less ie: i-pods, laptops, video games, cars, western education etc.. I have raised my kids with all those things here in the USA.

I can tell you from my experience that they will probably be a lot better off without them. I have been very impressed by my wife and her family members. Good people with good educations and everyone of them hard workers that know how to take care of themselves and appreciate what they have and what they have accomplished.

Mike

That also means with not sufficient education to rise above being the eternal underdog in Thailand unless particularly talented, and no hope for them of ever having a chance to choose life somewhere else if they get tired of Thailand's ineqalities, classism and corruption.

Good schools are very expensive here, and normal schools go increasingly the way schools in the west go - violence and not much quality in education.

Presently, in order to be eligable for a retiree's visa you need 40 000 baht a month certified income, not obtained by working here, as a retirement visa will not allow you to work legaly, and as things go presently, expect more difficulties for foreigners trying to live in Thailand permanently. Backdoors are closed increasingly, and that most likely will continue so.

Just because "not enjoying it anymore" in the west, and therefore moving to Thailand is a bit risky.

What happens if you find out that you might not enjoy it in Thailand anymore when permanently living here (which does happen to many people once they realised that Thailand is not just a Land of Smile, but a society with many inequalities and not much social justice, and not exactly a level playing field as the west is mostly), but you have invested all your money here in your house in Isaarn, and simply can't afford to go back?

An increasing problem for many western embassies here is the huge amount of westerners who moved to Thailand and are trapped in very desperate situations of very real poverty, and no government funds available for them for repartriation or aid, or even costly medical emergencies. And Thailand has definately no funds for poverty stricken westerners, they haven't that for the millions of poor Thai.

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Here, you are on your own, and unfortunately money is an important factor when things might go wrong as there is no social security to fall back on here.

[wolfmanjack]

In regards to the original poster 670K pounds properly invested is enough for anyone to live the rest of their lives in thailand and probably any other country in the world. That is over $1,200,000 USD !!!!!!!! Only a braggart would ask such a question. It would not have looked like bragging if he would have left the question at "What kind of lifestyle can a person have on 100,000 baht per month?"

As far as someone living the basic lifestyle in the north is concerned, it is easy if you want to work a little. Remember there is a 12 month growing season here. Many fruit trees grow here with no one to take care of them. I have longon, Lynchee, Jackfruit, lime, mango, banana and papaya that all bear fruit every year without anyone doing anything but pick the fruit. I have thai chili plants that grow from the seeds that get washed out from my sink. There is absolutely no reason for anyone that has 1 rai of land to starve. You could even make a little money for other items if you wanted to with a little work of planting and taking care of the vegetables. I planted watermelon and cucumbers that grew fine with only watering every day. My mother in law raises forest pigs and chickens. The chickens feed themselves from bugs and scraps. The pigs eat banana trunks and leaves.

Getting sick is another story but someone retiring from the west should have enough pension to cover insurance for that.

Good schools can be had for 5,000 per month and international schools for 10K.

8K per month is a lot of driving unless you get shitty gas mileage. I get around 10kpl in my pickup truck so 8k per month at 25 baht per liter is over 3k kilometers per month. That is a lot of driving.

I agree everything is more in bangkok. A friend of mine from bangkok was visiting the other day and he commented that the houses here that cost 1.2 million would be 4million in bangkok. The same house that you rent for 3k per month here is 10k in bkk.

It all depends on location and lifestyle for how much you need.

[ColPyat]

It all depends on location and lifestyle for how much you need.

Minimum pensions in the west do often not cover the minimum required 40 000 Baht necassary for a legal retirement visa. And depending on country, government medical insurance might not cover medical bills overseas, especially if it is something expensive.

Working a little and making some additional money is technically a little bit illegal. Which is generally not a problem, but might be one day.

And not everywhere in the north you have a 12 month growing season. Most areas are depending on the monsoon.

It not just depends on where you want to life, and which sort of lifestyle, but very much on Thai government regulations.

[Desertexile]

In regards to the original poster 670K pounds properly invested is enough for anyone to live the rest of their lives in thailand and probably any other country in the world. That is over $1,200,000 USD !!!!!!!! Only a braggart would ask such a question. It would not have looked like bragging if he would have left the question at "What kind of lifestyle can a person have on 100,000 baht per month?"

3 Points

You think that at 3% / 20,400 GBPis enough to live and retire in any country in the West>? ######, not any country I have been to!

Why would I ask the question 'What kind of lifestyle can a person have on 100,000 per month'? I have live din Thailand since I was 21 mate, I know what kind of lifesyle to expect. THe thread has been about how to maximise investments - well, that what it is to me anyways.

As Benedix said, 100K really isn't anyhting to brag about - Mate, I don't know any of you. And on an annonymous board we aren't even people. We are just words on a screen. It would take a freak to brag in such an impersonnal way?????

As far as someone living the basic lifestyle in the north is concerned, it is easy if you want to work a little. Remember there is a 12 month growing season here. Many fruit trees grow here with no one to take care of them. I have longon, Lynchee, Jackfruit, lime, mango, banana and papaya that all bear fruit every year without anyone doing anything but pick the fruit. I have thai chili plants that grow from the seeds that get washed out from my sink. There is absolutely no reason for anyone that has 1 rai of land to starve. You could even make a little money for other items if you wanted to with a little work of planting and taking care of the vegetables. I planted watermelon and cucumbers that grew fine with only watering every day. My mother in law raises forest pigs and chickens. The chickens feed themselves from bugs and scraps. The pigs eat banana trunks and leaves.

Great, I as said about Neeranam, its the life you choose and I respect you for it. Personally, self sufficiency and sucha rural life isn't for me. I don't in my wildest dreams want to farm! I come from a rural area, that's why I left at 21 and went to Bangkok!

Getting sick is another story but someone retiring from the west should have enough pension to cover insurance for that.

Good schools can be had for 5,000 per month and international schools for 10K.

8K per month is a lot of driving unless you get shitty gas mileage. I get around 10kpl in my pickup truck so 8k per month at 25 baht per liter is over 3k kilometers per month. That is a lot of driving.

I agree everything is more in bangkok. A friend of mine from bangkok was visiting the other day and he commented that the houses here that cost 1.2 million would be 4million in bangkok. The same house that you rent for 3k per month here is 10k in bkk.

It all depends on location and lifestyle for how much you need.

Your post

You post mate is another one saying 'look how cheap I live, anyone else who doesn't like my lifestyle is a jerk, a braggard. Really mate, you have a strange concept. Personally, Idon't mind if you wanna collect bottles and drink loa kow - it's you gig.

[Desertexile]

That also means with not sufficient education to rise above being the eternal underdog in Thailand unless particularly talented, and no hope for them of ever having a chance to choose life somewhere else if they get tired of Thailand's ineqalities, classism and corruption.

Good schools are very expensive here, and normal schools go increasingly the way schools in the west go - violence and not much quality in education.

That hits the nail on the head really and opens up a whole new can of worms. It's all very well making choices but when those choices effect the next generation..... that takes some real though.

Interestingly, I have a 3 Thai guys working for me here, 1 has an international school and overseas uni education, the other has a local Thai education but at good schools and ended at Thammassat, the other a cheap education. One is paid 140K THB the other 70kTHB the other 25K THB - you work out which way

Anyways, back to the original thread.

Gents check out the HSBC new on-line saver gig. The interest is very high - I'd quote it here but its best to look yourself and me to avoid the accusstions of bullshitting! ALso, with the increase in rates bonds are acheiving a steady eddy 5.5%

[Mike45]

I have read this entire thread and I can tell you that at times I was frightened by the amounts of money that people say you need to live in the LOS.

I don't have it and if I want to retire early I probably never will. I can build a house in Issan, which is where I want to live. I just can't see staying at work longer because I am just not enjoying it any more.

Besides I am told that there are statistics out there that an early retirement will actually let you live longer. I don't drink, smoke or live an extravagant lifestyle. I feel confident that with the savings I have now and then my pension kicking in when I turn 55 and then SS kicking in when I turn 62 that I should be able to live the same simple life in the LOS or the USA.

On the subject of kids being raised like a Thai, I presume that means with a lot less ie: i-pods, laptops, video games, cars, western education etc.. I have raised my kids with all those things here in the USA.

I can tell you from my experience that they will probably be a lot better off without them. I have been very impressed by my wife and her family members. Good people with good educations and everyone of them hard workers that know how to take care of themselves and appreciate what they have and what they have accomplished.

Mike

That also means with not sufficient education to rise above being the eternal underdog in Thailand unless particularly talented, and no hope for them of ever having a chance to choose life somewhere else if they get tired of Thailand's ineqalities, classism and corruption.

Good schools are very expensive here, and normal schools go increasingly the way schools in the west go - violence and not much quality in education.

Presently, in order to be eligable for a retiree's visa you need 40 000 baht a month certified income, not obtained by working here, as a retirement visa will not allow you to work legaly, and as things go presently, expect more difficulties for foreigners trying to live in Thailand permanently. Backdoors are closed increasingly, and that most likely will continue so.

Just because "not enjoying it anymore" in the west, and therefore moving to Thailand is a bit risky.

What happens if you find out that you might not enjoy it in Thailand anymore when permanently living here (which does happen to many people once they realised that Thailand is not just a Land of Smile, but a society with many inequalities and not much social justice, and not exactly a level playing field as the west is mostly), but you have invested all your money here in your house in Isaarn, and simply can't afford to go back?

An increasing problem for many western embassies here is the huge amount of westerners who moved to Thailand and are trapped in very desperate situations of very real poverty, and no government funds available for them for repartriation or aid, or even costly medical emergencies. And Thailand has definately no funds for poverty stricken westerners, they haven't that for the millions of poor Thai.

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Here, you are on your own, and unfortunately money is an important factor when things might go wrong as there is no social security to fall back on here.

Go easy on me this is only my 27th post……I post hoping to contribute and to learn.

OK… OK maybe I am not looking at this the right way. I am not there and you people are so you have more accurate information than me.

Kids Education

I recently read someone post the following.

"Schooling is a difficult question. My wife and I discussed it and we decided to put my first daughter into a Thai kindergarten. In the three years she was there, they taught her to read and write English and Thai. They also taught her mathematics, to swim, and to dance. When she graduated, she was well and truly ready for primary school. But where to send her?

Is it worth sending your child to an international primary school? Again, we discussed this and we finally decided to send our daughter

to a private Thai school teaching both Thai and English. She has a very good English teacher at school, and of course she has me at home.

She is getting a well-rounded education and I am very happy with her progress. So this is one route you might want to consider. Once my

daughter is ready for high school we will place her in an international school. I don't feel it is necessary until then. But that's my choice. You may think differently for different reasons."

Now this sounds like a good educational experience to me. Of course you have to find the right schools and university.

What kind of tuition payments would there be for this kind of education?

I’m figuring that after getting a university degree in Thailand the kids would then be free to go to my home country the USA, which they would be able to move to because they would have dual citizenship, and get a job and a school loan and further their education. Does this sound like a bad plan?

My Visa

I thought I could get a retirement visa at age 50 by leaving 800K baht in a Thai bank. By the way I never said that after I built my home in Issan that I would be broke. I just don’t have 1.2 Million USD. Things are changing…what would my VISA options be for a 50 year old married to a Thai with a child?

Why I want to retire at 50

I said that I wanted to retire because I wasn’t enjoying work any more and it’s true. It’s not my only reason but it’s better than the reasons I see all around me here in the US, Illness, disability, advanced age. I place a great value on the years between 50 and 65 hopefully when I am still healthy and I want to maximize them. Maybe others have family genetics that indicate that they will live until there 100 healthy and active. I don’t. Early retirement is a risk I am willing to take.

How much is enough money

I don’t know but I have been looking at the FIRECALC web site and it makes me think I can do it. I am just not sure what my expenses will be in Thailand. Your help is appreciated.

Thanks for your reply's

[bmanly]

Why I want to retire at 50

I said that I wanted to retire because I wasn’t enjoying work any more and it’s true. It’s not my only reason but it’s better than the reasons I see all around me here in the US, Illness, disability, advanced age. I place a great value on the years between 50 and 65 hopefully when I am still healthy and I want to maximize them. Maybe others have family genetics that indicate that they will live until there 100 healthy and active. I don’t. Early retirement is a risk I am willing to take.

Mike45, if there is one thing I have learnt in life it is to "do it now". I retired early, in fact 6 years ago and I love every minute of it. What's the point retiring as a multi millionaire at the age of say 70 and you can't enjoy it? You have a high chance of some major medical problems which could curb your lifestyle to a point where it's pretty boring. I have seen it so many times where people idolize money more that a healthy good life. If you can afford it, go for it. If you want to PM me I can tell how little or how much you really need in Thailand, it just depends on what you want.

[NovaBlue05]

Why I want to retire at 50

".........I place a great value on the years between 50 and 65 hopefully when I am still healthy and I want to maximize them. ........."

I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, the way my govt. retirement pension system is set up, it is all backloaded so that you are encouraged/coerced to work as long as possible. I understand that they want you to keep paying into the system as long as possible and then retire as old as possible hoping you prematurely drop within a couple of years so that their payout is minimized. A 50 year old retiring with the same salary and years of service as a 64 yo will get a significantly smaller benefit than the 64 yo. I know everyone says that people are living longer and healthier lives but, in the last 5 years , I've seen 3 former co-workers die unexpectantly within 3 years of their retirement and they were in their early/mid 60's and seemed in fine health when they left.

[wolfmanjack]

In regards to the original poster 670K pounds properly invested is enough for anyone to live the rest of their lives in thailand and probably any other country in the world. That is over $1,200,000 USD !!!!!!!! Only a braggart would ask such a question. It would not have looked like bragging if he would have left the question at "What kind of lifestyle can a person have on 100,000 baht per month?"

3 Points

You think that at 3% / 20,400 GBPis enough to live and retire in any country in the West>? ######, not any country I have been to!

Why would I ask the question 'What kind of lifestyle can a person have on 100,000 per month'? I have live din Thailand since I was 21 mate, I know what kind of lifesyle to expect. THe thread has been about how to maximise investments - well, that what it is to me anyways.

As Benedix said, 100K really isn't anyhting to brag about - Mate, I don't know any of you. And on an annonymous board we aren't even people. We are just words on a screen. It would take a freak to brag in such an impersonnal way?????

I did not imply that anyone was bragging about 100,000 per month and your OP did not ask how to maximize investments. It asked if the people on this board thought that it was realistic for you to expect that you could earn 100,000 per month on an investment of $1,200,000 USD. There are many people earning 100,000 baht pr month from work or pensions that do not have 1,200,000 and I do not consider making this amount bragging but i do consider asking a board where the vast majority do not have a million dollars such a silly question as " If I have over a million dollars, do you think that is enough to live in Thailand ? " If you take 670,000 pounds times 70 which is what the TT exchange rate was when you asked the question and divide it by 40 years you get 97,708 baht per month. Pretty close to 100,000 baht per month WITH NO INTEREST !!!! for 40 years ??????? Think about it !!!!

I am from the USA and a single person making US$40,000 (20,400 GBP'S) per year can live pretty well if you stay way from california and New York. As a matter of fact MOST people in the USA do not make this much while they are working let alone retired.

Median household income definition and source info Median household income, 2003 $43,318.

So in fact you are telling every one that you expect to have over 1.2 million dollars when you retire AND as a single person you will be making approximately the same as the median family income in the USA with no further effort AND without touching your 1.2 million dollars THEN ask if this sounds reasonable. Now you have the Gall to tell me that the median family income in the USA plus 670,000 pounds in the bank is not enough to retire on ? I got news for you, over half of the families in the USA are living on less.

By the way my comments about raising food in the north were not directed at you. They were directed at other posters that were concerned about people retiring to thailand and then finding out they do not have the funds to survive. My point was that any one that is making the Average retirement($871) from the west (usa since that is what i know about) can in fact live here with a little forethought and very little effort.

[wolfmanjack]

Your post

You post mate is another one saying 'look how cheap I live, anyone else who doesn't like my lifestyle is a jerk, a braggard. Really mate, you have a strange concept. Personally, I don't mind if you wanna collect bottles and drink loa kow - it's you gig.

Do you think you are the only on reading these posts ????? Some of my comments were directed at other posters. Also I did not say you were a jerk. Only a braggard.

I am not pointing out how cheaply I live but how cheaply one can live if they have the desire which some posters have asked. I was just using the real life example of what I know. I am not putting in the work to plant these vegetables. I have a small factory with over 20 thai workers and when the orders are slow I have them do other things around here instead of sending them home for the day. Most of my workers own their own rice fields and gardens therefore do not mind getting paid to prepare a garden for me when things are slow.

Also you missed another point of how little you have to do to raise these things that can stretch your baht. To satisfy another poster that mentioned the monsoon can affect the growing season in the north. I will qualify my comments by saying in the Chiang Mai , where i live, area you have a 12 month growing season. Once planted my fruit trees have almost grown by themselves. No added fertilizer needed. They do get pruned every once in a while by the workers when they get bored but I have never asked them to do so. The vegetable garden I have grows in the rainy season with no care. You do need to cover the ground to keep the weeds out. No water since the rain does that for me. After the rainy season is over I do have to turn the sprinklers on every morning for an hour or so. My benefits from this ? I get fresh fruit and vegetables for almost free. All of which I know 100% do not have pesticides on them.

[Naam]

i don't think there is a need to use words like "jerk and braggart". each of us have different lifestyles which are based on the financial means available to the individual person/family. i don't look down on somebody who can afford to spend only a fraction of what i am able to spend and i don't envy those whos spendings are a multiple of mine.

[wolfmanjack]

My Visa

I thought I could get a retirement visa at age 50 by leaving 800K baht in a Thai bank. By the way I never said that after I built my home in Issan that I would be broke. I just don’t have 1.2 Million USD. Things are changing…what would my VISA options be for a 50 year old married to a Thai with a child?

The visa situation is constantly changing. By the way for those of you that assume all of us that are complaining about the new visa rules being illegal, you are wrong. I am now legal and always have been. However I do not know how long that will be the case. When I first came here it was on the visa exemption. I was back and forth between here and th USA. When I married I changed it to a support of a thai national with 200,000 baht in the bank. Then they changed the rules to 400,000 thai baht in the bank. I had the 200,000 but was not able to come up with 400,000 that I could just leave in the bank. I then opened my factory and changed to a "b" visa. I have had the "b" visa for several years now. I like others are wondering when they are going to change the rules on the "b" visa. Didn't they say a few months back that to continue getting the "b" visa the company had to have enough money on hand to cover the applicants wages and benefits for a full year plus a million baht in assets? My machinery originally cost over a million baht but with depreciation it is no longer valued at that amount. How many times are the going to change the requirements in the future ?

Why I want to retire at 50

I said that I wanted to retire because I wasn’t enjoying work any more and it’s true. It’s not my only reason but it’s better than the reasons I see all around me here in the US, Illness, disability, advanced age. I place a great value on the years between 50 and 65 hopefully when I am still healthy and I want to maximize them. Maybe others have family genetics that indicate that they will live until there 100 healthy and active. I don’t. Early retirement is a risk I am willing to take.

How much is enough money

I don’t know but I have been looking at the FIRECALC web site and it makes me think I can do it. I am just not sure what my expenses will be in Thailand. Your help is appreciated.

Thanks for your reply's

I think most people want to retire early and as I pointed out in earlier posts, the amount you need to do so depends on where you want to live and what life style you want to have.

Isaan may not be the best place to live if you want to be comfortable on a limited budget. I do not live there so maybe some other that do can enlighten us. From what I understand it is much hotter than in Chiang Mai so aircon may be needed for a much longer period of time unless you are acclimated to the heat. I only use it for 2 months out of the year and that is in my office only. My house is surrounded by trees so a fan is adequate.

Also from what I understand the amount of rain and ground water available is much lower. There is a reason that people in Isaan are poorer than in the North.

I my case i figure I NEED 30,000 per month to live here in Chiang Mai. I also know several people that are living on this amount. One retired gentleman I know has the 800,000 in the bank that he does not touch to meet the visa criteria. He has a small pension from the UK that equals 30,000 per month at 70 to 1. He sends his son to a private thai school at 5,000 per month. He rents a 110 square meter house for around 4,000 per month. He is also paying for a loan on a vehicle and has pretty good health insurance . I know for a fact that he has enough left over to visit the "massage" parlor twice a month and dines out several times a month although many times it is the local all you can eat for 89 baht steak house. He does not drink though and spends most of his time with his son.

I hope this helps. Any other questions please pm me personally since I do not want to bother the desertexile with our non bar hopping, low cost living discussions.

[Neeranam]

Is it worth sending your child to an international primary school? Again, we discussed this and we finally decided to send our daughter

to a private Thai school teaching both Thai and English. She has a very good English teacher at school, and of course she has me at home.

She is getting a well-rounded education and I am very happy with her progress. So this is one route you might want to consider. Once my

daughter is ready for high school we will place her in an international school. I don't feel it is necessary until then. But that's my choice. You may think differently for different reasons."

IMHO, it is not worth sending your child to an intenational primary. You are doing what I plan to do with mine. Internationals are ok if you earn big money and have no time to teach your kid yourself. International schoolkids I met(many of them) seem to be spoiled brats who have a problem with drugs and booze, especially Bangkok Pattana and the American one, and Harrow. The kids had absolutely no respect or interest in their Thai roots.

My plan is to send my kids to bilingual schools nutil about 13, then secondary in Scotland. Then give them the choice on whereand if to go to uni.

QUOTE(Mike45 @ 2007-01-26 18:12:40)

Why I want to retire at 50

".........I place a great value on the years between 50 and 65 hopefully when I am still healthy and I want to maximize them. ........."

I place a great value on the years now. I may be dead when I'm 50. Work like a dog for 35 years no thanks. Also, when I'm 50 or 65 I don't want to retire, I'd be lost with nothing to do. Working life is like running a marathon(which I nearly did this morning) - you have to pace yourself or you'll be f***d at the end.

[ColPyat]

Also from what I understand the amount of rain and ground water available is much lower. There is a reason that people in Isaan are poorer than in the North.

I am sorry, but that is not entirely correct. There are many provinces in the North that are bone dry, and rely on the monsoon alone. Not all areas receive watersupply by canals and such. And there are many areas in Isaarn that are supplied by an excellent network of canals, and three harvests a year are possible (though farmers are still trapped in debt and poverty).

It is a rather moot point to debate which is poorer - Isaarn or the north. Both have substantial sectors of very poor people.

As to your statement that nobody who has one Rai of land does not need to starve there - this is wrong as well. The systhem of sufficiency farming here, which was invented to survive from minimal plots of land, has a well calculated sizing - and that is a minimum of ten Rai per family in order to have a basic survival and that means enough food for consumption, and not much more cash than maybe 20 000 Baht a year cash income. Depending on area, ten Rai will cost somewhere between 100 000 Baht (the cheap sor por kor 401 land, or land without ownership papers) to 400 000 Baht. Anywhere closed to Chiangmai this will not be enough though. Additionally there will be investment costs for the necessary machinery, such as a small tractor (second hand 25 000 Baht, new 50 000 up), and a house, etc.

Well, that is just so you can make 20 000 Baht a year, and food for consumption (mostly rice veggies). It also takes a few years until it stops running a deficit, waiting on average two years until the necessary pond is dug by the authorities.

If one wants to enough money to have a bit more than just basic poor peasant survival, then that needs a substantial amount of investment.

Generally, when you buy such small plots of farmland, you don't just buy it anywhere. You do that when you have a Thai wife, and that means in her home, on not where she does not have the necessary protection of a large clan and family, as you will be always at a disadvantage when it comes to a conflict. The system in Thailand does not exactly work along the lines of justice we are used to in the west (and even in most rural areas in the west, when there is a conflict between an outsider and a local, the new outsider will be at a distinct disadvantage, regardless who is right).

If ones wife home is not in a prime farmland area, one has not much choice there.

You do make it sound so simple - have a bit of land in Thailand, and have a great retirement in the Land of Smile. Sorry, but that is not reality. Thailand is a country with huge social problems, and many of those are centered in the rural areas. If you advise someone to move there and live a lifestyle like a poor Thai peasant, you do give very wrong advise. It may be news to you, but factories in the industrial zones are jam packed with ex farmers who cannot make a living anymore of land that you advise a Farang of fifty to move to.

[ColPyat]

My plan is to send my kids to bilingual schools nutil about 13, then secondary in Scotland. Then give them the choice on whereand if to go to uni.

What a lovely plan. That's just great, send your children off to the west alone so you can keep living that cool and simple life here in the lovely Land of Smile. Just perfect, your kids gotta be in Scotland, in a new environment, no friends, not exactly the most uplifting weather and the parents a continent away.

When i was 12 i was moved to a bording school, away from home, and i went through absolute hel_l, something i won't wish on my worst enemy. At least i had the opportunity to come home for a holiday every few months.

Edited January 28, 2007 by ColPyat

[Neeranam]

What a lovely plan. That's just great, send your children off to the west alone so you can keep living that cool and simple life here in the lovely Land of Smile. Just perfect, your kids gotta be in Scotland, in a new environment, no friends, not exactly the most uplifting weather and the parents a continent away.

When i was 12 i was moved to a bording school, away from home, and i went through absolute hel_l, something i won't wish on my worst enemy. At least i had the opportunity to come home for a holiday every few months.

I'm sure they wanted what was best for their son.

I would never put them in a boarding school - they could live with their grandparents.

Obviously, they will have the choice. They may love Scotland compared with Thailand - I may by then and go too.

It's not like I'm sending them away so they can get a better paid job to look after me in my old age

[ColPyat]

I'm sure they wanted what was best for their son.

I would never put them in a boarding school - they could live with their grandparents.

Obviously, they will have the choice. They may love Scotland compared with Thailand - I may by then and go too.

It's not like I'm sending them away so they can get a better paid job to look after me in my old age

Good, that is somewhat reassuring.

Personally, i think it is a good idea to move with them if they will need better education in Scotland by then. Makes life easier for them, and it is not the best solution to have your kids be brought up by grandparents in the most critical years.

Personally, this is a decision that i will have to make in a few years time as well. If i cannot assure my son a good education here in Thailand, and i fear that as things are at the moment here, a quality secondary education is very expensive and beyond my means, and free from where i come from, i might have to move there, at least until he is old enough to be on his own.

I hope that until that moment comes either the education system here has improved substantially, or i will have enough money to afford an expensive education.

[Desertexile]

Wolfmanjack

You make some interesting points -

I did not imply that anyone was bragging about 100,000 per month and your OP did not ask how to maximize investments. It asked if the people on this board thought that it was realistic for you to expect that you could earn 100,000 per month on an investment of $1,200,000 USD. There are many people earning 100,000 baht pr month from work or pensions that do not have 1,200,000 and I do not consider making this amount bragging but i do consider asking a board where the vast majority do not have a million dollars such a silly question as " If I have over a million dollars, do you think that is enough to live in Thailand ? " If you take 670,000 pounds times 70 which is what the TT exchange rate was when you asked the question and divide it by 40 years you get 97,708 baht per month. Pretty close to 100,000 baht per month WITH NO INTEREST !!!! for 40 years ??????? Think about it !!!!

Firstly, it pays to read the comments before you reply mate. You say my original post didn't ask how to maximuise investments, then you go onto say that I asked if it were realistic to expect a 100K return from 670GPB. So, surely this is talking about investments? DIdn't i explain the whole 5% - 3%/2% living costs/inflation breakdown??/

YOu say that I asked the following 'silly' question.

'If I have over a million dollars, do you think that is enough to live in Thailand' ?

Where did I say that, mate? Didn't I explain in my initial reply to you, that I am fully aware of what to expect??

I've also thought about your last part of the above quote, like you told me I should. Again, I am trying hard to find your point here. Surely spending ones capital to be left with nothing is not any kind of investment advice? As a previous poster pointed out - I'm not rocket scientist - but even I can grasp the 'spend till its gone concept'. As I said, I've thought about it bro but I can't really garsp your point.

I am from the USA and a single person making US$40,000 (20,400 GBP'S) per year can live pretty well if you stay way from california and New York. As a matter of fact MOST people in the USA do not make this much while they are working let alone retired.

Median household income definition and source info Median household income, 2003 $43,318.

You are comparing apples and oranges here mate - I have never been to the USA. I have no desire to. Telling me the GDP of Switzerland or what ya average farmer makes in Mongolia is of no consequence to the discussion. Atleast my take on the discussion - one to maximise my invetsments so that I can maintain a 100K lifestyle which rises with inflation and my capital doesn't depreciate.

So in fact you are telling every one that you expect to have over 1.2 million dollars when you retire AND as a single person you will be making approximately the same as the median family income in the USA

That's what you are telling 'everyone' on my behalf, What I am actually saying is that I expect to have 670 GBP, retire as a married man and be making approximately 43 times more than an Afganni sheep herder who has a wife, 4 little Mohammed's and several mules..

with no further effort AND without touching your 1.2 million dollars

Yes, no further effort - unless ofcourse you note the post that says I'll be 38 and likely continue working in Thailand. - if I choose too I did however infer that I wouldn't touch the investment (which kinda goes against your first calculation to spend the lot) - Think about it.

THEN ask if this sounds reasonable. Now you have the Gall to tell me that the median family income in the USA plus 670,000 pounds in the bank is not enough to retire on ? I got news for you, over half of the families in the USA are living on less.

Again, back to the apples and oranges. I have no interest in the average USA/Thai family - my only interest is my retirement with my Mrs. I have no inclination to retire as avarege Joe Bloggs in the good'ol USA. As I guess you dont want to retire as my Afganni sheep herder.

By the way my comments about raising food in the north were not directed at you. They were directed at other posters that were concerned about people retiring to thailand and then finding out they do not have the funds to survive.

Please note how you started the farming thing - by replying to me and then sidelined off to the farming peice. I am sure you are riding on your own thought train - I'm not mate. As I said, farming isn't my thing. But I do get your point - I think - is it something like 'Come to Amazing Thailand, when your wallet runs dry, you can always raise forrest pigs' .... nice one. Should me bonds go tits up, I'll spend me last few quid on a chanoteless 1 rai and a few swine.

Also you missed another point of how little you have to do to raise these things that can stretch your baht

Forgive me for not responding to it bro, it wasn't off interest to me - unless ofcourse you were going to help me beat the 5 % rate?

in the Chiang Mai , where i live, area you have a 12 month growing season. Once planted my fruit trees have almost grown by themselves. No added fertilizer needed. They do get pruned every once in a while by the workers when they get bored but I have never asked them to do so. The vegetable garden I have grows in the rainy season with no care. You do need to cover the ground to keep the weeds out. No water since the rain does that for me. After the rainy season is over I do have to turn the sprinklers on every morning for an hour or so. My benefits from this ? I get fresh fruit and vegetables for almost free. All of which I know 100% do not have pesticides on them.

Great, good on ya. It's your gig. I respect you for it.

So, can I make money on pesticides then?

Oh yeh - and I don't bar hop. That's what the other lucky bastards do. I just sit around smoking big spliffs in my yard in my own lil fishing village.

######ing hel_l - Its taken 10 minutes outta my life to repsond to you. I just don;t get the negativity mate - why the ###### would you want to come on an annoymous web board and poo poo my plan that I swetting my balls off to accomplish. Its my gig, we all got our own gigs. Neeranam his, you, your etc etc. Who cares really!

Edited January 28, 2007 by Desertexile