Denied entry at Suvarnabhumi Airport

[JaiDeeMakh]

Hey TV Users,

 

Inquiring for a friend of mine, so i don't have ALL the information, but hoping someone could shed some light on the situation....

 

My friend's fiance (from Oregon, USA) arrived on Friday at Suvarnabhumi but he was not allowed to enter Thailand. He had a return flight booked, money in his wallet, and has only been to Thailand one other time and that was in October 2017 when for 1 week holiday with no overstay or any altercation occurring. When he arrived Friday 26th January, Immigration checked their computers very thoroughly, and then asked him if he had ever been to prison in the U.S. He said yes, but that was over 25 years ago for a minor office and served less than 2 months jail-time. 

 

For this reason alone they refused him entry to Thailand, and demanded that he return from whence he came, San Francisco was his last departure point, and did not even give him option of going to Malaysia or Laos or somewhere closer so my friend could go see him.

 

That's all the info i have. Is this now the normal Immigration procedure? ANYONE with a previous conviction is now no longer welcome in Thailand? If so, why was he allowed to enter in October but not now in January? I agree with Good guys in, Bad guys out, but this sounds like slight overkill to me.

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

[darrendsd]

I very much doubt that he was denied entry solely on the basis of a conviction in the States 25 years ago especially since he was allowed entry a few months ago 

 

As you say you don't have all the info, it would be better to get it before posting

 

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by darrendsd

[Mattd]

I'd be gobsmacked if Thai immigration suddenly has access to US criminal records, especially one going back so long ago. As above, there must be some other reason.

[scottiejohn]

9 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I'd be gobsmacked if Thai immigration suddenly has access to US criminal records, especially one going back so long ago. As above, there must be some other reason.

Australia Immigration do according to their Border Secuity Programmes.

[Mattd]

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Australia Immigration do according to their Border Secuity Programmes.

Quite possibly they do, although given the nature of the US system, even this is probably only certain limited info, i.e. whatever is on a federal database.

I still doubt the Thai's have this sort of access.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, JaiDeeMakh said:

for a minor office (offense, I assume) and served less than 2 months jail-time. 

What was the "minor offense" ? 

 

He could have pled to a felony, and only spent that amount of time in jail (or even no jail-time, with a well-connected lawyer).

 

As well, even if not a felony, there may be certain types/classes of crimes which could trigger this response.

[berybert]

If asked "have you ever been to jail" the correct answer is NO. Why on earth did he say yes ?

 

[KMartinHandyman]

If asked "have you ever been to jail" the correct answer is NO. Why on earth did he say yes ?
 

Because they were looking at his name and dob in the database which had a conviction associated with it would be my guess.

[mstevens]

I am dubious about the idea that this fellow was not allowed to enter Thailand because of a 2 month jail sentence from decades earlier.  But I'd be thrilled if this really was the case because it would mean many of the unsavoury expats might get their marching orders and that, quite frankly, would make expat Thailand a better place.

Edited January 29, 2018 by mstevens

[007 RED]

Thai immigration does not have direct access to any other countries immigration or national security databases.  Likewise, other countries do not have access to Thai immigration or security databases.  Information is shared on a need to know basis, as and when appropriate and this is normally done via diplomatic channels.

 

I suspect, that on this occasion the IO just threw the question ‘out of the blue’.  When the passenger answered yes, the next obvious question would have been what offence(s) you were convicted of.  Depending upon the answer, the IO would have referred the matter to a senior officer for further investigation and a decision regarding entry.

 

FYI – The Immigration Act B.E. 2522, Section 12 states:  Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom:

 

Section 12(6) states:  Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court; or by a lawful injunction; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country, except when the penalty is for a petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

Section 12(7).   Having behaviour which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation, or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

 

Section 12(8).   Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

 

Without additional information it is impossible to say why the IO made the decision to refuse entry.

Edited January 29, 2018 by 007 RED

[Ulic]

53 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Australia Immigration do according to their Border Secuity Programmes.

Yes, but Australia is a member of the 5 eyes so I think they would have special access

to information that Thailand is unlikely to have access to. 

[Mattd]

53 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Australia Immigration do according to their Border Secuity Programmes.

Actually, after doing some research, it appears that the only 2 countries that actively share criminal record information during the immigration entry process are US & Canada.

The UK for example doesn't share this information unless it is specifically asked for and even then it has to be through the correct process, which takes a little time.

For another country to request the information, then they would have to have reasonable cause to do so.

I go with @007 RED theory, the IO threw a random question out and the guy bit, seems a bit harsh to deny entry just for this though, if indeed that was the sole reason..

[Briggsy]

What did he get up to when he was here for one week 3 months ago?

[SpeakeasyThai]

As an honest law abiding ex pat living in Thailand, I am fed up meeting lawless ex pats with criminal history, problems and mental baggage that they bring to Thailand. They end up bringing their problems with them and thus, creating problems for the rest of us. Your 'friend' should stay in America where he belongs. He is America's problem, not ours.

 

Well done Thai immigration. 

[007 RED]

49 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Yes, but Australia is a member of the 5 eyes so I think they would have special access

to information that Thailand is unlikely to have access to. 

Five Eyes is actually an alliance comprising the national security agencies of: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States.  You are talking of the real serious 007 stuff.

 

The key word is National Security, which does not include the routine sharing of basic immigration or criminal records. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by 007 RED

[SpeakeasyThai]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

I'd be gobsmacked if Thai immigration suddenly has access to US criminal records, especially one going back so long ago. As above, there must be some other reason.

'Gobsmacked'... clearly you are living in the past? Don't you know everything is linked up to computers now! They can find out anything about anyone if they want to. Elementary.

 

[SpeakeasyThai]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

Quite possibly they do, although given the nature of the US system, even this is probably only certain limited info, i.e. whatever is on a federal database.

I still doubt the Thai's have this sort of access.

Wake up man.

[Briggsy]

I don't believe Thailand has access to the U.S. criminal record system.

 

Has somebody got reason to dislike this guy to the extent they would try and make trouble for him with authorities?

 

Has he upset anybody in Thailand?

 

Is there a hostile ex-wife?

 

Are there alimony or child support issues, particularly unpaid alimony or child support?

 

What part of Oregon is he from?

 

Who knew he had served time?

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

Don't you know everything is linked up to computers now!

I am assuming you are being sarcastic here. It is not clear.

[Jimbo2014]

Estimates are that about 1 in 4 americans go to Jail at some point in their life (ok reported by Fox news so maybe give or take).  I guess thats alot of return flights if this is now the modus operandi.

[Mattd]

10 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

Wake up man.

I suspect that I'm far more awake than those that think that this kind of info is shared on a routine basis, it just doesn't happen unless it is warranted. 

[mstevens]

28 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

'Gobsmacked'... clearly you are living in the past? Don't you know everything is linked up to computers now! They can find out anything about anyone if they want to. Elementary.

 

Total nonsense and not true at all.  Do you really think developed nations are going to give the keys to their records to governments of countries where corruption is commonplace?!

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I suspect that I'm far more awake than those that think that this kind of info is shared on a routine basis, it just doesn't happen unless it is warranted. 

One thing I can think of - some sort of "sexual deviant" type of offense, which might involve being "listed" on something more widely shared.  I seem to recall someone with such a charge being blocked entry recently, but that thread was closed before details were discussed.

 

Most would associate inclusion on such a list with rape or similar, but in the USA, that might include minor incidents such as "public urination" (drunk, taking a leak behind a dumpster) or something more potentially-serious, such as "domestic-violence."  In the latter case, for a man in the USA, avoiding such a charge means that when/if a female gets violent with you, run away as fast as you can; don't imagine you have a right to "self defense" or to protect your property - just run.

[CGW]

12 minutes ago, mstevens said:

Total nonsense and not true at all.  Do you really think developed nations are going to give the keys to their records to governments of countries where corruption is commonplace?!

I hope you are correct? if civil liberties have dropped so low that they are handing out information like this to a military corrupt system that seized power from a democratic government for all the wrong reasons we are well and truly screwed, we have already lost the right to freedom of speech, thats a thing of the past! What next?

[Seanbhoy]

When I was 18 so 13 years ago I overstayed for about 3 or 4 months mb more, I tried the lost passport thing, didn't work, paid the 20k fine and went back to UK - every time I came back to Bangkok, with a different passport, something was always flagged up, they had to get another immigration officer to check whatever information they had on the database that said I overstayed, about 3 or 4 years it was the same, took ages to get through immigration.

In the meantime, I got into a little trouble in UK, got charged with 2 offences, paid a hefty compensation & court costs and took the punishment on the chin.

without going into too much detail I have never ever once, ever been denied entry into any country I have visited around the world and that includes going to USA, all over Europe, multiple countries in Asia etc.

There is something hes not telling you.

If its a sex offence or manslaughter I think they probably have access to that. Interpol? there is definitely something. 

If you have done your time and your conviction is spent already then know one accept the country it happened in will have records of that.

If whatever crime you have committed could be deemed serious enough to be a constant threat to minors or vulnerable people then I think its due diligence that your home nation informs which ever country you are visiting.

 

[SicTransit]

44 minutes ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

clearly you are living in the past? Don't you know everything is linked up to computers now! They can find out anything about anyone if they want to. Elementary.

Sorry but from your comments I reckon you have a very vague idea on how the aforementioned "computers" (i.e. databases of various law enforcement agencies from across the world) operate. "They" can find out if they really want, sure, but nothing about it is elementary, neither legally nor from a technical standpoint.

[midas]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

I'd be gobsmacked if Thai immigration suddenly has access to US criminal records, especially one going back so long ago. As above, there must be some other reason.

I've been asking for years why they don't have this system already? I mean it is hardly rocket science to link a few databases to keep out all these people that escape here and seek refuge here even when they have outstanding warrants and are wanted in their own country.

[Mattd]

12 minutes ago, midas said:

I've been asking for years why they don't have this system already? I mean it is hardly rocket science to link a few databases to keep out all these people that escape here and seek refuge here even when they have outstanding warrants and are wanted in their own country.

I actually do not disagree with your sentiments, the issue would be one of data protection and privacy, especially regarding EU countries etc.

Although I'd imagine that it wouldn't be that easy to implement TBH, a lot of data involved.

[brucegoniners]

1 hour ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

As an honest law abiding ex pat living in Thailand, I am fed up meeting lawless ex pats with criminal history, problems and mental baggage that they bring to Thailand. They end up bringing their problems with them and thus, creating problems for the rest of us. Your 'friend' should stay in America where he belongs. He is America's problem, not ours.

 

Well done Thai immigration. 

I would say that's rather harsh without knowing all the facts.

 

Perhaps the guy made a mistake when he was a kid. Did you make any mistakes when you were young?

 

I agree we need to get rid of the real undesirables here (although this place seems to be a magnet for them).  This guy may not be one of them.

[SpeakeasyThai]

37 minutes ago, mstevens said:

Total nonsense and not true at all.  Do you really think developed nations are going to give the keys to their records to governments of countries where corruption is commonplace?!

What a really  stupid reply. Did you make that up all by yourself?