New govt condo rental rules

[gunderhill]

Wife owns some condos and informs  me today there are some new  rules  coming out May 1st, don't  know if  this has been mentioned but seems  pretty darned crap to me for both sides tenant and owner. Anyone heard about this or maybe its already been posted?

- 

-    The tenant can move out any time but must inform the owner by letter 30 days before. 

-    The owner can visit the room any time without informing the tenant.

-    The owner cant ask tenant to pay the rent more than 1 month. >> what happen if they want to pay ahead for 1 year ?

-    In the contract can't put lost deposit. 

-    the deposit money must return after customer move out or not later than 7 days unless room damage.

-    

[scubascuba3]

What are you meant to do if those rules are breached?

[KittenKong]

"The owner cant ask tenant to pay the rent more than 1 month. >> what happen if they want to pay ahead for 1 year ? "

Seems straightforward to me. The owner cant ask or insist but the tenant can volunteer if he wants to.



"The owner can visit the room any time without informing the tenant. "

Nuts to that one.

[gunderhill]

20 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

"The owner cant ask tenant to pay the rent more than 1 month. >> what happen if they want to pay ahead for 1 year ? "

Seems straightforward to me. The owner cant ask or insist but the tenant can volunteer if he wants to.



"The owner can visit the room any time without informing the tenant. "

Nuts to that one.

I'd  agree and let's face  reality the law  here takes forever and I doubt any of this  will have any effect on either  side, but had YOU heard about this? maybe its "old  news" but she informed me about this yesterday, I mean it's  nuts, the tenant can sign a  one year contract then announce the next day they'll be gone in 30 days and MUST have their deposit  back unless any damage.....I guess "damage"  could now start to get "real expensive" for the tenants.

[MikeN]

The first I heard of this was yesterday from my GF when she mentioned about only one months rent as deposit . Apparently it has been publicised on the Thai language media, but I had never seen anything.

[jackdd]

Sources in Thai are always nice... but i managed to find the original law text:

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2561/E/035/12.PDF

I will try to understand it and report back. If somebody has an english translation of this law text you are very welcome to post it

 

The point that worried probably most of us when reading the starting post was actually translated wrong by OPs wife or whoever:

On page 3 starts a list with things that are NOT allowed to put in a contract. Point number 6 in this list says: The "business owner" may not write in the contract that he may inspect the property without giving notice to the tenant.

 

The document always talks about ผู้ประกอบธุรกิจ which means something like "business owner". So i don't know if this document actually applies to a person who rents out just one house.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by jackdd

[Lacessit]

Are you sure these rules are coming out May first, and not April first?

Rule #2 is in direct conflict with the proposition a tenant is entitled to quiet enjoyment of the premises. I would have thought 24 hours notice of a visit would be normal courtesy.

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Are you sure these rules are coming out May first, and not April first?

Rule #2 is in direct conflict with the proposition a tenant is entitled to quiet enjoyment of the premises. I would have thought 24 hours notice of a visit would be normal courtesy.

In the news that i read they also said May first. And regarding rule #2 see my post above

 

Another interesting thing that i saw in this new law is something regarding the fees for water / eletricity.

Disclaimer: I could have understood this totally wrong, because they wrote this extremely difficult:

As you probably know, in an apartment the landlord usually doubles the cost for electricty / water of what he actually pays to the government, it seems that this is now not allowed anymore.

Any native Thai speaker here?

[Acemaker]

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In the news that i read they also said May first. And regarding rule #2 see my post above

 

Another interesting thing that i saw in this new law is something regarding the fees for water / eletricity.

Disclaimer: I could have understood this totally wrong, because they wrote this extremely difficult:

As you probably know, in an apartment the landlord usually doubles the cost for electricty / water of what he actually pays to the government, it seems that this is now not allowed anymore.

Any native Thai speaker here?

Well , surely thats a good thing isnt it, or are you condoning Theft ?

[inThailand]

I find it hard believe any of this will become law. Must of it also goes against common sense. But we are in LOS!

[gunderhill]

45 minutes ago, inThailand said:

I find it hard believe any of this will become law. Must of it also goes against common sense. But we are in LOS!

Yes  it  all sounds  extremely MAD, I mean what's the point in  a 12  month contract you can walk away from after 30 days.

If anyone finds out the full story please  post back.

[gunderhill]

21 hours ago, jackdd said:

Sources in Thai are always nice... but i managed to find the original law text:

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2561/E/035/12.PDF

I will try to understand it and report back. If somebody has an english translation of this law text you are very welcome to post it

 

The point that worried probably most of us when reading the starting post was actually translated wrong by OPs wife or whoever:

On page 3 starts a list with things that are NOT allowed to put in a contract. Point number 6 in this list says: The "business owner" may not write in the contract that he may inspect the property without giving notice to the tenant.

 

The document always talks about ผู้ประกอบธุรกิจ which means something like "business owner". So i don't know if this document actually applies to a person who rents out just one house.

 

 

My Wife I think copied and pasted it to me from "somewhere"

[jackdd]

7 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Yes  it  all sounds  extremely MAD, I mean what's the point in  a 12  month contract you can walk away from after 30 days.

If anyone finds out the full story please  post back.

This one does actually sound right, but they forgot to translate the last part "the tenant needs a reason"

 

ผู้เช่ามีสิทธิบอกเลิกสัญญาเช่าอาคารก่อนสิ้นสุดสัญญาเช่าอาคารได้ โดยต้องบอกกล่าว เป็นหนังสือให้ผู้ประกอบธุรกิจทราบล่วงหน้าไม่น้อยกว่าสามสิบวัน ทั้งนี้ ผู้เช่าต้องไม่ผิดนัดหรือค้างชําระค่าเช่า และมีเหตุจําเป็นอันสมควร

My personal translation: The tenant has the right to cancel the contract before the end of the contract. He has to give written notice to the "business owner" not less than 30 days in advance. The tenant may not have any outstanding payments and he needs to have a reason.

Now the big question is of course what is a valid reason.

[Pattaya46]

23 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Yes  it  all sounds  extremely MAD, I mean what's the point in  a 12  month contract you can walk away from after 30 days.  //

 

What sounds extremely MAD to me is people who criticize rules on rumours, without having a reliable translation of them and without knowing the context of these rules...

 

What about waiting for a good translation of the PDF jackdd gave above ? (#6)

 

[sfokevin]

I’d like to know what recourse if any a tenant would have if any of these were violated by the landlord?… 

 

 

[watcharacters]

On 2/20/2018 at 12:33 PM, KittenKong said:

"The owner cant ask tenant to pay the rent more than 1 month. >> what happen if they want to pay ahead for 1 year ? "

Seems straightforward to me. The owner cant ask or insist but the tenant can volunteer if he wants to.



"The owner can visit the room any time without informing the tenant. "

Nuts to that one.

 

 

I wonder if the owner would be required to knock?

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I’d like to know what recourse if any a tenant would have if any of these were violated by the landlord?… 

 

 

It's a very murky area. The best landlord/tenant relationships are based on mutual trust. I consider myself lucky to have a landlord where everything is verbal. No security deposit, and if anything goes wrong it gets fixed by his agent at no cost to me. In return, I look after his property and pay my rent three months in advance. Win win.

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No security deposit [...] pay my rent three months in advance

Paying "one month in advance and 2 month deposit" and "paying three months in advance" is effectively the same, don't you think so?

[InMyShadow]

Post a rumor without any substance except wifey heard some gossip and it pretty much becomes fact .Got to love TV

[jojothai]

I worked with a property agent some time ago.

There is a standard form of lease in Thai that should be used for letting.

we always replicated the certified English translation within letting contracts, adding what may be sensible.

This did sometimes cause issue because some people questioned why we could add things.

 

Unless what is reported is some official change to the standard thai form,  I suggest that you check it out.

I am not aware of changes but would be grateful if anybody can advise recent changes.

It is may simply be somebody translating or communicating the standard lease requirements

but not getting the translation right.

[jackdd]

8 hours ago, InMyShadow said:

Post a rumor without any substance except wifey heard some gossip and it pretty much becomes fact .Got to love TV

Maybe you should read the whole thread before you reply

 

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

I worked with a property agent some time ago.

There is a standard form of lease in Thai that should be used for letting.

we always replicated the certified English translation within letting contracts, adding what may be sensible.

This did sometimes cause issue because some people questioned why we could add things.

 

Unless what is reported is some official change to the standard thai form,  I suggest that you check it out.

I am not aware of changes but would be grateful if anybody can advise recent changes.

It is may simply be somebody translating or communicating the standard lease requirements

but not getting the translation right.

Same for you... read the thread before replying

And a "certified" english translation of a Thai document? Certified by who?

[bkkandy1308]

There is an English language version of the new Law, which will come into effect on May 1, here:

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=37775da9-2521-4d08-9aaa-b068b99e4e59

 

This is from Thailand's office of the law firm Tilleke & Gibbins.

 

It has also been published here: http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1 

 

There has been very little in the way of mainstream coverage in English about this new law, except for a small news article back in early January when the Law passed Cabinet approval. There were no details (in English) given at that time.

 

Yes, it only applies to Thailand landlords with five or more properties, but that's actually a sizeable proportion of Thai landlords in Bangkok. Many agencies I've spoken to this past weekend were both shocked that they were not consulted, and also that this has already been published in the Royal Gazette and will become law on May 1. Of course enforcement is another question entirely.

 

Note for clarity: I'm the editor of ThailandProperty.News.

[anon537687643]

Should be made illegal to have 2 months deposit! 3 months rent to move in to apartment . Madness !


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[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, bkkandy1308 said:

There is an English language version of the new Law, which will come into effect on May 1, here:

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=37775da9-2521-4d08-9aaa-b068b99e4e59

 

This is from Thailand's office of the law firm Tilleke & Gibbins.

Another example for why you should not trust lawyers in Thailand if they can not even translate something from Thai to English properly

[bkkandy1308]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Another example for why you should not trust lawyers in Thailand if they can not even translate something from Thai to English properly

 

And these words have been used by some Thailand real estate agencies over the weekend, in updates to their clients. I know this particular lawyer has also issued press releases about this new Law and is working with some of the big real estate firms here to help with further clarifications.

[jojothai]

On 2/26/2018 at 1:22 AM, jackdd said:

Maybe you should read the whole thread before you reply

 

Same for you... read the thread before replying

And a "certified" english translation of a Thai document? Certified by who?

Whats the problem? I can read English. You never had to get certified translations of documents??

 

Might as well give up posting, if we get told not to reply with relevant comment. 

 

 

[anon537687643]

No more charging more than the 4 baht a unit for electricity is also include in the law! There will need to be a contact address, email, phone number that tenants can report the cheaters who don’t abide by laws and of course officers who will enforce it ! Basically never ever pay 2 months deposit or excess utility bill . Don’t sign any agreement that’s different

 

 

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[anon537687643]

Bump

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

Whats the problem? I can read English. You never had to get certified translations of documents??

 

Might as well give up posting, if we get told not to reply with relevant comment. 

 

 

You said

I am not aware of changes but would be grateful if anybody can advise recent changes.

It is may simply be somebody translating or communicating the standard lease requirements

but not getting the translation right.

I posted the original law text on page 1 of this thread, so i advised you to read it.

 

And yes indeed, i did never see any certified translation from anything law related from Thai to English. I only know certified translations of documents from our home countries to Thai. So i asked you who certified the translation of the contract that you are using.

[jackdd]

39 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

No more charging more than the 4 baht a unit for electricity is also include in the law

This seems to be correct, but there is a big BUT, which is one of the things that is again not properly translated in the translation posted by bkkandy1308, because in the law they even explain this.

The law says that the owner may charge service fees related to providing electricity and water. For example the cost of the water pump for the tap water.

ค่าสูบน้ําเพื่อเพิ่มแรงดันน้ําประปาภายในอาคาร

The law also says that these costs have to be reasonable, but let's face it: Now the apartment owner is charging 7THB for electricity. 4THB go to the government.

After the law changes he will make a contract with his brother that the maintenance of the electrical systems costs another 3THB, so he can charge the same 7THB as before.