Using Maslows Hierarchy of Needs to Ascertain Why Some Expats Fail in Thailand

By Dan Cheeseman 

 

 

It is well documented that for many foreigners whom come to live in Thailand that it ends up going horribly wrong. An expats life in Thailand needs some good initial discipline and awareness. Failed relationships with Thai partners, losing all their money, horrible accidents (such as on a motorbike) and/or becoming alcoholics.

 

Now I am writing this just as debate, rhetoric and general interest; just one mans observations on what could be going on here, and I wondered if applying Maslows hierarchy of needs to this could shed some light on why it goes so horribly wrong for some expats.

 

 

If we look at the basic needs,  then it is quite straight forward – finding a place to rent or buy to live in Thailand, just as you would anywhere else in the world.

 

I think where it all starts to go wrong is in our psychological needs. It is very easy to get in with the wrong crowd, you know the type, the ones that do nothing more than drink beer everyday or the guys that are always skint. Maybe you start lending some money here and there, it will never end well in most cases. The need to feel like you belong is perhaps more stronger when you are outside of your domestic country too. It would be easy to argue people try far to hard to fit in and fit in with whomever will allow them when in Thailand. People who would never be your friends in your own country can become friends too easily when in Thailand.

 

I discussed the subject of friendship with many expats in Pattaya and most freely accepted they do not consider their friends here close friends like they had back home. They said making friends was actually quite difficult and more over the in order to make friends they would need to drink in a bar. This of course means drinking, and if not careful, a daily habit forms in order to have friends.

 

Full story: http://danaboutthailand.com/2018/02/21/using-maslows-hierarchy-needs-ascertain-expats-succeed-others-fail/

Well Dan I think in my humble opinion you need to get out of Pattaya and see Thailand and then do unbiased polls and Vblogs.  

 

While Pattaya is in Thailand it is so "UnThailand".  It's a huge hub for westerners to drink and behave as they do.  It would be like living in Cabo San Lucas Mexico and painting Mexico the same.

 

Good Luck with your Vblogs.

 

 

Well as for friends, back home all they good for is to take take an talk shat the same really so no big difference there . I never gave anyone a penny back home an i dont here.

 As for doing business here its a no for me ,to much hassle and little reward or big loss isnt that inspiring, so before you move to Thailand make sure you either have atleast £500k depending on your age how far it will last and a  good job or means of support still coming in from back home or all of that combined.

   Think it makes a big difference to know the Language to a level where u can have a chat with the Thais . Finding that loving partner true to you and not pulling your wallet strings all the time to send the Isaan crew money every time they yack down the phone to their daughters about hard times is another quest , which i have done thankfully.

   Im very happy living in Thailand and am very thankful to be lucky enough to be here with the garden full of fruit trees an veg which is good for the heart out planting in it an eating off it , something you cant do back in UK 

    If i could just get this drinking curbed now and my weakness for exotic clubs in check LOL ,but after 17 yrs falling out of them i dont seem to be bored one little bit seeing them wee darlings bobbing about ,  im still only at 47 in March so hopefully can see 50 :))

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

more to the point mazlows hierarchy more clearly explains why your average westerner is unable to understand the actions or mentality  day to day of the thais they encounter and often choose to bed. 

its all well and good to say thais don't care about the environment, they have a limited world view, or dismiss them as just plain ignorant when you are sitting 2 to 3 steps higher up the pyramid.

Edited February 22, 20188 yr by HooHaa

I know some guys here who play golf together regularly, but most of the time group gatherings of foreign men where I live seem to revolve around meeting at a local bar or restaurant at a pre-ordained time to drink and shoot the breeze. I'm not aware of any book, model airplane, Thai language study, cooking, or banana orchid clubs for foreigners in my area.

 

In terms of obstacles to enduring friendships, I would say that geographic distance, age differences, education, work and class background differences, financial status, nationality, language (native English speaker, Thai language skills?), whether you're a come-and-go snowbird, how permanently you are settled here (length of time living in Thailand?, house?, stability of relationship with spouse?), whether your spouse likes to socialize with other foreigners and their Thai wives, and your health are all factors which come into play in terms of deciding whether foreigners are interested in engaging with you.

 

My observation is that there is a fairly high level of insecurity and distrust amongst many foreign men all over Thailand. Fears of being judged for having a bar girl wife, for having had a blue collar job back home, a hobbit sized house, 2 wheels rather than 4, the wrong accent, too naive about Thailand, etc.) People make snap assessments if someone's going to be around for a long time or burn out like a 4th of July sparkler. If people think you're not going to be around for very long, many guys have a 'why put in the effort?' attitude. Many guys are also openly anti-social about interacting with other foreigners. "I'm here to learn about Thailand." "All foreigners (except me, of course) are sleezebags." Political differences are another huge stumbling block.

 

Sharing any type of problem (marital, financial, health) with a foreigner can be risky. The foreigner runs home, blabs everything to his wife (and only friend in Thailand), who tells everyone in town, or even worse the foreigner runs and tells all the other foreigners in town something you told him in confidence.

Let me just close by sharing something which I think backs this up. You know, when a foreign guy breaks up with his Thai wife and leaves town, his wife usually stays put. And you can talk to her. On a couple of occasions guys have died in motorcycle accidents or natural causes, and their widows are still there. And you might on occasion talk to her. And in other cases, even when the foreigner is still living locally, the wife is talking to the locals about her foreigner husband, what's going on, how's he doing, any problems, etc., and this chitchat gets picked up by my wife and in some cases directly by me as well. On a couple of occasions Thai wives married to foreigners have sought out my wife for marital advice. So after the marriage breaks up, or the foreigner dies, or via the village grapevine, the truth about what these fellow expats are really thinking comes out. How they see other expats? How they felt about things, their attitudes? I'm just saying I don't think that the comments I've made here are just speculative projections but have frequently been been confirmed indirectly.

Edited February 22, 20188 yr by Gecko123

Maslows theory is generally regarded as garbage.

 

Decades ago I did some psychology course and it was used as an example of someone getting it wrong, even in a subject where right / wrong answers can be argued - this one was rejected long ago.

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

Maslows theory is generally regarded as garbage.

 

Decades ago I did some psychology course and it was used as an example of someone getting it wrong, even in a subject where right / wrong answers can be argued - this one was rejected long ago.

I had to learn that pile of poo as part of my training, and I thought it was <deleted> 33 years ago. Haven't changed my mind since.

I guess he tried to reduce the most complex psychological system possible down to a simple and explainable theory, but it's not possible to explain the human psych, which is why humans are the most <deleted> up species on the planet.

@ Gecko123

 

Long response but not sure how it relates to the topic. That said however (and remaining off topic a bit) you make some spot on comments about foreigners here.  Honestly I have no day to day westerner friends here and not because I am not social or friendly.  I have met quite a few and I have little to nothing in common with them. I am a very active type and the majority I have met are not or they are, but their activities always include copious amount of alcohol, bars and girls. 

 

Regardless  I am extremely content here in Thailand and have been. I just do my thing and all is good.  

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Maslows theory is generally regarded as garbage.

 

Decades ago I did some psychology course and it was used as an example of someone getting it wrong, even in a subject where right / wrong answers can be argued - this one was rejected long ago.

In fairness to the premise of the article, it doesn't really matter whether Maslov's theory that needs are layered and a person only focuses on higher needs once lower needs are met has been discredited or not. The OP is just using Maslov's categories of human needs as a basis for discussing which category of need fulfillment causes the most adjustment problems for expats in Thailand.

The part about farangs making up stories and lies about their lives is spot on.  I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand.

 

They seem to have a need to show off in order to feel accepted in the group, where all the other guys have similar stories.. and each one tries to sound more successful than the last... with the result that the stores change and get more ridiculous over time.. which can be quiet funny.  

 

But now, when I meet a farang and he starts telling me how rich he is and how he had been working like James bond for the queen.. or met aliens in the Whitehouse.. I just make me excuses and leave.

 

 

3 minutes ago, JAFO said:

@ Gecko123

 

Long response but not sure how it relates to the topic. That said however (and remaining off topic a bit) you make some spot on comments about foreigners here.  Honestly I have no day to day westerner friends here and not because I am not social or friendly.  I have met quite a few and I have little to nothing in common with them. I am a very active type and the majority I have met are not or they are, but their activities always include copious amount of alcohol, bars and girls. 

 

Regardless  I am extremely content here in Thailand and have been. I just do my thing and all is good.  

After reviewing the Maslov pyramid of needs, the OP comments that the fulfillment of "social needs" is where many foreigners struggle. My post basically supports the OP's observation and attempts to explain why social needs fulfillment can be a challenge for expats in Thailand.

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand.

I had an auntie who was a train driver.

Hmmm.

14 hours ago, JAFO said:

.  It would be like living in Cabo San Lucas Mexico and painting Mexico the same.

 

 

 

 

Or, alternatively, like living in Olongapo City and thinking the rest of the PI is the same.

15 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Right on......stop the constant "analysing" of Foreigners and their abilities to live a life outside their own country (I presume they are not children)....and start "utilizing" all that is good about Thailand that attracts new people year after year.

So very true but having an active life that doesnt revolve around bars makes all the difference. 

12 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

The part about farangs making up stories and lies about their lives is spot on.  I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand.

 

They seem to have a need to show off in order to feel accepted in the group, where all the other guys have similar stories.. and each one tries to sound more successful than the last... with the result that the stores change and get more ridiculous over time.. which can be quiet funny.  

 

But now, when I meet a farang and he starts telling me how rich he is and how he had been working like James bond for the queen.. or met aliens in the Whitehouse.. I just make me excuses and leave.

 

 

I have to agree there. My wife is an excellent judge of character and I'm not so bad myself. I find it difficult to hide my suspicions on hearing these stories and that, yet again, is the end of the relationship.

On the other hand when I tell them I am building they don't believe that I do it all myself, impossible, so I generally don't discuss all the interesting stuff that I did in my life, unless they ask directly. 

I do miss a good drunken philosophical chat in an English pub, but that also is a thing of the past apparently.

It's all 'avoid eye contact' these days, I must get a T shirt printed.

I discussed the subject of friendship with many expats in Pattaya and most freely accepted they do not consider their friends here close friends like they had back home. They said making friends was actually quite difficult and more over the in order to make friends they would need to drink in a bar. This of course means drinking, and if not careful, a daily habit forms in order to have friends.

 

 

Dumb conclusion. Thailand is like a United Nations of expats; all are different thoughts, cultures and languages; of course comparing oranges with lemons gives you a different result. So called friends back home think the same way, talk the same language and BS to you just to be social. Whereas is Thailand there are a percentage of aggrieved expats that have been stung by local scams, struggling with a different lifestyle and its ways; they are cautious being friends with any one. You would draw the same conclusion in many other countries.

For a "journalist" the English in the opening post is terrible. Nothing puts people off reading articles more than poor English.

1 hour ago, dotpoom said:

Right on......stop the constant "analysing" of Foreigners and their abilities to live a life outside their own country (I presume they are not children)....and start "utilizing" all that is good about Thailand that attracts new people year after year.

Respectfully disagree. Social adjustment issues within the expat community here are very much in need of being better understood. If anything this topic is under-discussed and under-analyzed. Consider the incidence of suicide and alcoholism in the expat community if you don't think people are struggling to adjust here.

29 minutes ago, 1337markus said:

 

Dumb conclusion. Thailand is like a United Nations of expats; all are different thoughts, cultures and languages; of course comparing oranges with lemons gives you a different result. So called friends back home think the same way, talk the same language and BS to you just to be social. Whereas is Thailand there are a percentage of aggrieved expats that have been stung by local scams, struggling with a different lifestyle and its ways; they are cautious being friends with any one. You would draw the same conclusion in many other countries.

Understand where you are coming from, and agree that expat communities around the world share many similar characteristics. But I believe that Thailand's expat community suffers from some unique dysfunctionality. The way expats interact in a European capitol, and how they interact in Thailand is not the same. In Thailand there is much more distrust and insecurity than you find in most other ex pat communities, even in other Asian countries such as Singapore, Tokyo or Hong Kong. I have long been puzzled by this, and am interested in hearing anyone's theories as to why this is the case.

BS story

16 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

The part about farangs making up stories and lies about their lives is spot on.  I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand.

 

They seem to have a need to show off in order to feel accepted in the group, where all the other guys have similar stories.. and each one tries to sound more successful than the last... with the result that the stores change and get more ridiculous over time.. which can be quiet funny.  

 

But now, when I meet a farang and he starts telling me how rich he is and how he had been working like James bond for the queen.. or met aliens in the Whitehouse.. I just make me excuses and leave.

 

 

I met one that claimed to be the reincarnation of the Dali Llama. Then the speil about needing money started.

However, worth every baht I paid for his coffee, to hear the story.

20 hours ago, webfact said:

foreigners whom come to live in Thailand

 

Quote

when you are outside of your domestic country 

And some "whom come" to Thailand from their "domestic country" may need to rethink what creative self-actualization activities best suit their talents.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 20188 yr by Suradit69

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

So very true but having an active life that doesnt revolve around bars makes all the difference. 

Why? I have spent many happy hours in bars in Thailand, and I don't even drink alcohol.

In the UK, most people I knew at work seemed to spend a great deal of their non working time in a pub. I didn't because of the cigarette smoke and it was always too noisy to converse without shouting.

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Understand where you are coming from, and agree that expat communities around the world share many similar characteristics. But I believe that Thailand's expat community suffers from some unique dysfunctionality. The way expats interact in a European capitol, and how they interact in Thailand is not the same. In Thailand there is much more distrust and insecurity than you find in most other ex pat communities, even in other Asian countries such as Singapore, Tokyo or Hong Kong. I have long been puzzled by this, and am interested in hearing anyone's theories as to why this is the case.

I think it has more to do with the people that want to travel as against those that just want to stay at home.

However, I never passed by westerners that went out of their way to ignore me, as opposed to just not greeting me, till I lived in a small town in Thailand.

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Respectfully disagree. Social adjustment issues within the expat community here are very much in need of being better understood. If anything this topic is under-discussed and under-analyzed. Consider the incidence of suicide and alcoholism in the expat community if you don't think people are struggling to adjust here.

Given everyone CHOSE to come here and can go home anytime, I don't see why anyone should bother to "understand" the expat community. It's not as though it's going to make any difference to us, is it?

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given everyone CHOSE to come here and can go home anytime, I don't see why anyone should bother to "understand" the expat community. It's not as though it's going to make any difference to us, is it?

Maybe it won't make much difference to you.  But it is interesting for some.  And for others it might help them not to fall into the traps that many farnags here seem to get themselves into... alcoholism, obesity, ill health due to poor lifestyle, loosing all their money, getting bitter and miserable, depression, suicide etc.

 

Also some people can not simply 'go home anytime' as their home has become Thailand.  People who have lived here many years may have no home, job, money, or family left back in their original country.  Also financially they may not have enough money to survive back 'home'.  

Edited February 23, 20188 yr by jak2002003

This post is a pathetic waste of time and space.

34 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

This post is a pathetic waste of time and space.

So is mine.

 

I feel guilty about it, but I hope it will be a lesson to others