Sheriff faces mounting criticism over Florida school massacre

[webfact]

Sheriff faces mounting criticism over Florida school massacre

By Steve Gorman and Daniel Trotta

 

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel speaks before the start of a CNN town hall meeting at the BB&T Center, in Sunrise, Florida, U.S. February 21, 2018. REUTERS/Michael Laughlin/Pool/Files

 

(Reuters) - A Florida sheriff came under mounting criticism on Sunday for his deputies' response to this month's deadly high school shooting and potential warning signs as dozens of state lawmakers called for his ouster and the governor ordered an independent inquiry.

 

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel insisted that only one of his armed deputies is so far known to have been at fault for staying outside the school while it was under attack rather than entering to confront the gunman who shot 17 people to death.

 

That deputy, identified as the school's assigned resource officer, Scot Petersen, has resigned rather than face suspension and possible dismissal after his actions were caught on video during the massacre, the sheriff acknowledged last week.

 

News outlets including CNN and NBC have since reported that at least three more armed Broward County sheriff's deputies were present on the scene, taking cover behind their vehicles instead of immediately going into the school.

 

Israel sought to dismiss those reports, based on unnamed sources from the neighboring Coral Springs Police Department, which also responded to the shooting.

 

"Our investigation to this point shows that during this horrific attack, while this killer was inside the school, there was only one law enforcement person, period, and that was former deputy Scot Peterson," Israel said in a CNN interview on Sunday.

 

Israel did not rule out, however, that the investigation could find other deputies who failed to act properly during or immediately after the Feb. 14 rampage, which authorities said lasted about six or seven minutes.

 

The sheriff said separately on Twitter that he welcomed an investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, as requested by Governor Rick Scott, to examine the response by local police and the sheriff's office.

 

"This independent, outside review will ensure public confidence in the findings," Israel said.

 

Fourteen students and three adult educators were slain when a gunman opened fire with a semiautomatic AR-15-style assault rifle inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, an affluent suburb of Fort Lauderdale.

 

Nikolas Cruz, a 19-year-old former student who was expelled last year for disciplinary problems, was later arrested and charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

 

Authorities have said Cruz made his getaway moments after the shooting by blending in with students fleeing the school and was later apprehended after strolling through a nearby Walmart store and stopping at two fast-food outlets.

 

The sheriff rejected calls for his removal as politically motivated and defended his department from criticism that his deputies overlooked a number of telltale signs that Cruz posed a threat of violence.

 

"I can only take responsibility for what I knew about," Israel, a Democrat, told CNN, adding that he had "given amazing leadership" since he was first elected sheriff in 2012.

 

Besides Peterson's resignation, Israel has previously said two other deputies have been placed on restricted duty pending an internal review of whether they properly handled two telephone tips - from 2016 and 2017 - warning that Cruz was collecting weapons and might be inclined to commit a school shooting.

 

The sheriff told CNN on Sunday that 16 other "calls for service" his department received about Cruz before the massacre were properly handled. Others disagreed.

 

A letter on Sunday signed by 74 Republican members of the Florida House of Representatives urged Scott, also a Republican, to suspend Israel under a provision of the state constitution that lets the governor remove a sheriff for "malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty [or] incompetence."

 

"In the years leading up to this unspeakable tragedy, Sheriff Israel, his deputies and staff ignored repeated warning signs about the violent, erratic, threatening and antisocial behavior" of the accused gunman, the letter said. It cited additional questions raised about the actions of the first deputies on the scene of the shooting.

 

The Federal Bureau of Investigation also has drawn public outrage by acknowledging it failed to follow proper protocols after receiving a tip that Cruz possessed a gun, had indicated the desire to kill and could carry out a school shooting.

 

FBI officials have told families of victims they "deeply regret" their mishandling of the matter.

 

The carnage in Parkland, marking the second-deadliest U.S. public school shooting on record, has reignited an intense U.S. debate about firearms safety laws, with Stoneman Douglas students emerging as national voices calling for gun control.

 

(Reporting by Steve Gorman in Los Angeles and Daniel Trotta in New York; Editing by Jeffrey Benkoe and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-26

 

[sungod]

If trained cops wont go in, how will arming teachers help?

[Somtamnication]

Pretty shameful act that those deputies are guilty of. But burning the sheriff will not solve the problems and he was clearly upset with those 4 deputies.

 

Speaking from a LEO background, the first officer on the scene must try to analyse the situation and pass it on to others who have not yet arrived. If shots are being fired, you have to go in and update others. Shame shame shame.

 

[Proboscis]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

If trained cops wont go in, how will arming teachers help?

Would anyone other than someone on a suicide mission face down a crazy person with an assault weapon with high-velocity ammo while only armed with a low-velocity handgun?

 

High velocity ammo creates an "earthquake" on human tissue up to 3 inches in diameter from the entry point and this earthquake goes straight through the body. All this tissue dies immediately, including organ tissue. In many cases, not even bone will stop such a bullet.

 

Why does anyone need high velocity ammo to go hunting? Outside a war zone, why would anyone need such ammo? It should be banned outright.

[InMyShadow]

sadly there is NO answer. Banning assault rifles will just create an underground market . to little and way to late for the yanks.

Best they just create a collateral damage figure..say 500 students/year? That way there are no surprises and students can decide for themselves if the percentage is worth risking a higher education

[Retiredandhappyhere]

I understand how difficult it must be for the authorities to identify and then keep track of these potential killers, but how often do we hear an announcement immediately after a terrorist bombing or mass shooting, such as in this case, that the authorities were "AWARE" of the perpetrator, whose name was on their list of suspicious persons. It is of little comfort to all the dead and injured that the murderer was "known" and then eventually caught, assuming he does not commit suicide first. 

 

Many terrorist attempts are thwarted apparently already but perhaps there should be a law enabling the authorities to detain and question such suspects, including searching their homes, and computers, when they are suspected of planning, or even voicing a desire,  to attack, as was the situation in this particular case.  Normal law-abiding citizens would not be affected by such a law and the probable saving of innocent lives would outweigh any protests by the "Human Rights" brigade, who often appear to go too far in protecting criminals at the expense of the victims.

[helpisgood]

1 hour ago, Proboscis said:

Would anyone other than someone on a suicide mission face down a crazy person with an assault weapon with high-velocity ammo while only armed with a low-velocity handgun?

 

High velocity ammo creates an "earthquake" on human tissue up to 3 inches in diameter from the entry point and this earthquake goes straight through the body. All this tissue dies immediately, including organ tissue. In many cases, not even bone will stop such a bullet.

 

Why does anyone need high velocity ammo to go hunting? Outside a war zone, why would anyone need such ammo? It should be banned outright.

Thanks for the interesting analysis.  Maybe your point wasn't meant to defend the deputy's actions, but merely to emphasize the dangers posed by a crazed person with such a powerful weapon.  Anyway, that deputy is not just an ordinary citizen.  He had signed up for and was paid to protect the public.  I would at least expect some kind of cautious approach by the deputy towards the danger.  He was being paid to take risks.  There were children being shot in there, and his job was to protect and serve the public.      

 

I'd like to build on the good points you have made regarding the assault weapon.  Consider that this bizarre circumstance that arose due to Florida's laws allowed this kid to be able to so seriously outgun an armed law enforcement officer.  I think that's yet another reason for better gun laws.      

Edited February 26, 2018 by helpisgood
correct verb

[wayned]

There was definitely a problem on how the Broward County Sheriff's department handled the situation.  But the Republicans have now all pitched in to "fire the Sheriff" in hopes that the stricter gun law initiatives and the voices of the students will quickly fade and it will be back to status quo!  It's now Monday morning and it's time for the next Trump "chaos of the week".  The DACA bill seems to have disappeared although the deadline is now only 8 days away., and Trump's latest effort to have the President of Mexico say that he will pay for the wall has failed.

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, sungod said:

If trained cops wont go in, how will arming teachers help?

And you can imagine the next mass shooting once teachers are armed............."11 children shot dead by gunman and a further 4 killed including a policeman by young kindergarten teacher trying to shoot the gunman." Yup that'll work then. Then the NRA will scream "more training"......training to such a level of expertise that teachers would get paid much more if they just joined the military or police instead of being teachers (most teachers hate guns and war...that's one of the reasons they became teachers), so why not just skip all the crap and only allow schools to be situated on military bases only.  The world USA has gone totally mad. MAGA  Make America Gunless Asap.

[Gecko123]

I'm not prepared to sit in judgment of the officer who failed to enter the school when the shooting started. Granted the optics are terrible, but can I say I wouldn't have done the same thing in his situation? No I can't. He was armed with a handgun and probably didn't have protective gear on and the active shooter had an assault rifle. I'm not sure if the public's expectation that a law enforcement officer is going to charge headlong towards an active shooter in every scenario is realistic. I can still recall watching the footage from the Paris Bataclan massacre where the assailants were able to hold off dozens of highly trained SWAT team officers for several hours. The officer's performance just shows how expecting armed teachers to perform any better is completely unrealistic. The weapon of choice for these school shooters is a semi-automatic assault rifle. To defend against such attacks is going to require arming teachers or security guards with similar weaponry. The only lasting solution I can see is taking these weapons off American streets.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Gecko123

[wayned]

Trump said that if he was there he would run in to the school even if he didn't have a gun.  Is time for a poll to see how many of us would have wanted "old bone spurs" to have done that?

[Andaman Al]

16 minutes ago, wayned said:

Trump said that if he was there he would run in to the school even if he didn't have a gun.  Is time for a poll to see how many of us would have wanted "old bone spurs" to have done that?

It could be a 100%. His supporters want it because they believe he is a super hero, and the rest of the sane world want it to get rid of the proven coward.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, wayned said:

Trump said that if he was there he would run in to the school even if he didn't have a gun.  Is time for a poll to see how many of us would have wanted "old bone spurs" to have done that?

The only place I believe trump would run into is a fast food outlet with a 2 for 1 offer on fatboy burgers. 

[buick]

i had referenced an incident in los angeles on a thread on this same topic.   i noticed the incident has a wikipedia summary.  it might be of some interest.  i lived in los angeles when this happened (i was 30) and as far as i know this was the first major incident where the issue of private citizens with illegally modified automatic weapons made national headlines.  so the issue has been around for 20 years and not much has been done to resolve it.  in this case it was the police being outgunned rather than students being killed.  but it was pretty clear some type of ban on weapons that can be modified into automatic weapons needed to take place.  america is a big place and unfortunately some states follow different rules than others.  similar to illegal immigration where there are sanctuary cities and illegal immigrants are somewhat protected.  in some states, private citizens are able to buy guns at a gun show with limited (if any) background checks.  and in other states, they require background checks but somehow guns are sold to those that don't qualify  (one of the guys in the attached link was a convicted felon, yet he was able to buy one).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

 

part of the reason i put this out there is this deputy in florida was overmatched, pistol versus AR-15.  i think he should have at least gone in the building but he likely could not have changed the outcome.  the police in the north hollywood had no chance until the SWAT team showed up with equal firepower.

 

[ballpoint]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

Trump said that if he was there he would run in to the school even if he didn't have a gun.  Is time for a poll to see how many of us would have wanted "old bone spurs" to have done that?

That's not all he said to a group of state governors:

 

"Don't worry about the NRA, they're on our side," 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/43202075

 

 

 

 

[Tug]

Cops are trained from day one not to be Cowboys and run into danger they wait for overweliming force it deeply saddens me to see that man thrown under the bus he will spend the rest of his life in deep sorrow and shame and for trump and his big mouth talking from behind his protection detail is absoulity vile beyond words!

[InMyShadow]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

Trump said that if he was there he would run in to the school even if he didn't have a gun.  Is time for a poll to see how many of us would have wanted "old bone spurs" to have done that?

have a hard time picturing trump "running" anywhere

[sungod]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Cops are trained from day one not to be Cowboys and run into danger they wait for overweliming force it deeply saddens me to see that man thrown under the bus he will spend the rest of his life in deep sorrow and shame and for trump and his big mouth talking from behind his protection detail is absoulity vile beyond words!

Couldn't agree with you more, also other comments regarding facing off a semi auto rifle (with or without bump stock) with a hand gun.

 

So my question remains, how will arming teachers work? Have not seen any details from Trump or his NRA buddies (including those on here) on how it should be achieved. I'd be interested in their proposal.

[boomerangutang]

The US created a War On Drugs which has gone on for nearly 50 years, criminalizing people for hemp, among other non-harmful things. 

 

Yet the US can't create a 'War on privately-held Military Weapons' - even though there's an average of one mass murder (4 or more people) each day in the US. 

 

That makes as much sense as parents of a large family outlawing white foods (mayonaise, tofu, bread) but allowing strychnine, deadly nightshade and arsenic for meals. 

[Briggsy]

Fox are really running this story. They need it to :-

 

a) deflect from the gun control protest and the fact that anybody can go out and buy an assault rifle.

deflect any blame away from the Republicans and Trump.

c) keep going with the strange Trumpian agenda that the law enforcement authorities are the enemy.

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

The US created a War On Drugs which has gone on for nearly 50 years, criminalizing people for hemp, among other non-harmful things. 

 

Yet the US can't create a 'War on privately-held Military Weapons' - even though there's an average of one mass murder (4 or more people) each day in the US. 

 

That makes as much sense as parents of a large family outlawing white foods (mayonaise, tofu, bread) but allowing strychnine, deadly nightshade and arsenic for meals. 

 

Actually, military style weapons are the only ones protected by the 2nd Amendment. You'd get laughed out of the "well regulated militia" if you showed up with a handgun.  Seeing as how handguns are used to kill more than 20 times the number of Americans each year than rifles, wouldn't banning handguns be the logical place to start?  They have no Constitutional protection of ownership as do weapons a militia might use.

[Stargeezr]

I wonder if the American hero, Trump would have performed any better than the deputy sherrif?

 Likely not is my guess. No body , but the military should be allowed to be in possession of an assault rifle. These weapons  are not guns for hunting any animal except humans.  Change the law that allows an assault weapon to by owned privately and maybe things will start to change, but that will be the day when we will see that, because of the attitude of the 2nd ammendment means armed with any weapon I chose is the American male attitude, I am sorry to say..

Geezer

[Stargeezr]

I would like every one to google when the 2nd ammemdment was written. 

Oh yeah, when life was totally different than it is today. Back in the times when every state in the union, hanged whose guilty of murder. Do any of you remember those days. Heck even squeeky green, Canada hung people way back then. Just saying... back then there was no social media. no cell phones, no 8 tracks , cassettes, or CDs, or color TV.  yes that was quite a long time back!

Geezer

[boomerangutang]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Actually, military style weapons are the only ones protected by the 2nd Amendment. You'd get laughed out of the "well regulated militia" if you showed up with a handgun.  Seeing as how handguns are used to kill more than 20 times the number of Americans each year than rifles, wouldn't banning handguns be the logical place to start?  They have no Constitutional protection of ownership as do weapons a militia might use.

When a person or institution wants to justify doing the things it's addicted, all reason goes out the window - particularly if that person/institution has the upper hand.  The NRA has the upper hand because it funnels hundreds of millions of dollars to politically connected people who advocate for it.  Individual gun addicts have the upper hand because, if they face resistance, they can reach for their guns - the '...cold dead fingers' crowd.

 

Just because gun addicts can twist the 2nd amendment to justify an 18 yr old whacko owning 45 assault weapons, doesn't mean it's the correct interpretation.  Even the 2nd Amendment wasn't written by Gods, it was written by people.  People are fallible.  That's why there are 27 amendments to the Constitution, ....and more to come.  

 

Speaking of fallible people, Trump is top of the heap.  He's talking about gun issues as if he's just finding out about them an hour ago.  He's changing his ideas by the minute.  He contradicts himself several times per day ("We should arm teachers" "I never said we should arm teachers").

He meets with NRA but doesn't meet with people/groups who represent the vast majority of Americans who want less insane gun laws.  He's too chicken shit to stand and face questions.

He is to being a leader what a sea slug is to baking a cake, except a sea slug is braver than Trump, because a sea slug will face its adversaries.  Trump sends a woman out to speak for him, and the most she can say is, "I don't know his position on that. I'll have to get back to you on that."

 

 

 

 

 

[boomerangutang]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

Couldn't agree with you more, also other comments regarding facing off a semi auto rifle (with or without bump stock) with a hand gun. So my question remains, how will arming teachers work? Have not seen any details from Trump or his NRA buddies (including those on here) on how it should be achieved. I'd be interested in their proposal.

How will arming teachers work?  Easy.  There will be brave teachers like Kelly or Trump who, when they hear guns going off, will grab their gun and run to where the problem is.  They will quickly kill the problem people and save the day. 

 

Trump will get a Marvel Comic artist to draw us a depiction.  Easy peasy.  Super heroes always triumph over the bad guys.   Super Trump to the rescue!  YAY!

[wayned]

41 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump will get a Marvel Comic artist to draw us a depiction. 

Don't forget Stephen Miller, he will be there too dressed in either his white sheet and hood or Nazi uniform just in case the perp was an immigrant!

[thaibeachlovers]

Sacked man walking.

Given by the statements he's been making about how great he is, he can't be long for that job.

Regardless of who is to blame, when it came to his 4 deputies that stayed outside, the buck stops with him.

[Gecko123]

What act of past physical courage can Trump point to to support his boast that he would have run into the school even without a gun? And when was the last time he ran anywhere except maybe to the bathroom? After hearing his comment, my respect for him hit fresh lows. His poor character, which constantly undercuts his ability to lead, is why his presidency is doomed to fail.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gecko123

[lannarebirth]

8 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

When a person or institution wants to justify doing the things it's addicted, all reason goes out the window - particularly if that person/institution has the upper hand.  The NRA has the upper hand because it funnels hundreds of millions of dollars to politically connected people who advocate for it.  Individual gun addicts have the upper hand because, if they face resistance, they can reach for their guns - the '...cold dead fingers' crowd.

 

Just because gun addicts can twist the 2nd amendment to justify an 18 yr old whacko owning 45 assault weapons, doesn't mean it's the correct interpretation.  Even the 2nd Amendment wasn't written by Gods, it was written by people.  People are fallible.  That's why there are 27 amendments to the Constitution, ....and more to come.  

 

Speaking of fallible people, Trump is top of the heap.  He's talking about gun issues as if he's just finding out about them an hour ago.  He's changing his ideas by the minute.  He contradicts himself several times per day ("We should arm teachers" "I never said we should arm teachers").

He meets with NRA but doesn't meet with people/groups who represent the vast majority of Americans who want less insane gun laws.  He's too chicken shit to stand and face questions.

He is to being a leader what a sea slug is to baking a cake, except a sea slug is braver than Trump, because a sea slug will face its adversaries.  Trump sends a woman out to speak for him, and the most she can say is, "I don't know his position on that. I'll have to get back to you on that."

 

 

 

 

 

Assault rifles are an emotive issue, especially when we read about kids killing kids. But the fact is handguns kill the vast majority of Americans murdered. No militia I've ever heard of fights with handguns.Go after the handguns while you're waiting on the Constitutional Convention or sweeping change to the Supreme Court. I think instead people just like to hear themselves talk.

Edited February 27, 2018 by lannarebirth

[MaxYakov]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:41 PM, Andaman Al said:

And you can imagine the next mass shooting once teachers are armed............."11 children shot dead by gunman and a further 4 killed including a policeman by young kindergarten teacher trying to shoot the gunman." Yup that'll work then. Then the NRA will scream "more training"......training to such a level of expertise that teachers would get paid much more if they just joined the military or police instead of being teachers (most teachers hate guns and war...that's one of the reasons they became teachers), so why not just skip all the crap and only allow schools to be situated on military bases only.  The world USA has gone totally mad. MAGA  Make America Gunless Asap.

"MAGA Make America Gunless Asap."

 

You're delusional if you think American will ever be "Gunless". At a minimum, the people in power and the military will not cede their guns.

 

The people may be stupid enough to do so, then what? "Do they all live happily ever after"? If you believe that they will, then you know noting about human nature and history and you certainly don't live in Chicago, USA.