OldSiamHand Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 their story is spreading, at least in the non-mainstream media. Coconuts and Reddit have covered it now. https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/two-american-women-arrested-suspicion-trying-change-fake-us-dollars/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) On 2/27/2018 at 12:17 PM, overherebc said: Yep. Because they are so 'smart' they believe that eveyone outside their own border will be easy to 'outsmart' Goes for many western nations. Big problem when they find out they are the ones being 'outsmarted' My idea. They got conned buying the money from someone, at a very good rate, who was leaving the next day and thought they could make a bit extra for the holiday. I might be way off but!! I must say, money changers in Pattaya are very thorough when checking out foreign currency and they don't take any chances. I've had a few genuine notes knocked back. They are also very strict now in getting passport details when exchanging currency. Edited February 28, 2018 by tropo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Crash999 said: You said 9 pages of people saying guilty. That they tried to change counterfeit notes is a crime, so they are objectively guilty. Yes, but typically you have to have intent to commit a crime or something more, what is called "mens rea" for most crimes, not all. Otherwise in this case, any one of us who was passed a forged bill, and then we attempted to spend it and got caught, would go to jail with no defense at all?? That would not make sense. What is tripping most people up is the fact that they don't believe the source of the funds or that they find the source dishonest to begin with. But finding some cash, that is not identifiable in any way, not in a wallet that someone can describe that they lost later, and in corrupt as hell country, do you think the police would return it to someone? Would you go to the police and expect them to find your lost cash that fell out of your pocket in Cambodia? It is possible that they are not aware of how smart money changers are and they did know it was fake and tried it on. But it is also possible that they did not know ..I don't know I have never seen that money so I can't judge how good or not it seems. I would think the paper is low quality and that would tell you right away but maybe not? Who here has seen it and felt it before??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, elektrified said: I've found money on the streets many, many times. If you added it up over the many years - 32 to be exact; perhaps 10,000 Baht. My wife found 500 Baht in the parking lot just last night. Wow, really? I have found 20 baht once, 500 baht once too in the parking lot and $100 bill once in a parking lot in the US. Other than coins ...you can see those all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, amykat said: Yes, but typically you have to have intent to commit a crime or something more, what is called "mens rea" for most crimes, not all. Otherwise in this case, any one of us who was passed a forged bill, and then we attempted to spend it and got caught, would go to jail with no defense at all?? That would not make sense. What is tripping most people up is the fact that they don't believe the source of the funds or that they find the source dishonest to begin with. But finding some cash, that is not identifiable in any way, not in a wallet that someone can describe that they lost later, and in corrupt as hell country, do you think the police would return it to someone? Would you go to the police and expect them to find your lost cash that fell out of your pocket in Cambodia? It is possible that they are not aware of how smart money changers are and they did know it was fake and tried it on. But it is also possible that they did not know ..I don't know I have never seen that money so I can't judge how good or not it seems. I would think the paper is low quality and that would tell you right away but maybe not? Who here has seen it and felt it before??? Even if there isn't intent one can still be held responsible, though the punishment is different of course. An example being manslaughter vs murder. In the UK for example one can be held responsible if not making an effort to return something that's found. Property isn't considered abandoned if it's lost, so it's still owned by someone else. As for the quality of the counterfeits they updated their fundraising page saying that it said the word "copy" on it but that the word copy on it was covered in mud. Seems they didn't think to wipe thick mud off the bills before using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Henrik Andersen said: What local news??? If you search the name in Google of one of the people involved you'll find a news article from their hometown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, sanemax said: I do think that we've established that there was no fake money and that this is a gofundme fraud What's the evidence of that? Unless someone checked with the police who confirmed there's no pending case it still seems very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rebo Posted February 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2018 What a coincidence! Misty Eichholz is from Citrus Heights as well: https://citrusheightssentinel.com/2017/12/28/citrus-heights-police-seek-identify-suspects-used-counterfeit-bills/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, BobbyL said: These cryptic Facebook posts make it seem more and more like a scam. If it was real there would surely be news reports, photos from the Currency Exchange CCTV of them, police info etc. The police here CANNOT wait to have a photo pointing at the assailants, especially some bad foreigners, yet there is nothing. The only info is from their Facebook and gofundme. Very suspicious. Well actually, how can I put this delicately ...if they had a good lawyer and even before ... and when the police are inclined to want a case to "go away" they keep things quiet. The more quiet is it, the easier it is to make it go away and reach settlements that are good for everyone involved. Get it?? That is why they are on FB and places asking for people not to involve media and not to draw too much attention to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I've always said tipping is an evil murican invention. See what happens, now they're so sloppy the bills just fly out of their pockets, so much so the streets are paved with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 40 minutes ago, scorecard said: I wonder if 'gofundme' and similar organizations actually check anything before allowing their site to be used to ask for contributions - cash? Anybody know about this? From what I can find it seems the 'gofundme' organization takes 3.9% of the contributions raised, this needs further checking. 3.9%, if that's true, of every 'event' is a sizeable amount of money. Checking the 'gofundme' site I discovered it's basically impossible to talk to the actual organization, no phone number and I can't find an e.mail address to message them. Strange stuff. Different point, has anybody found any mention of the rtp being actively / officially involved in any way with this cae? If what you say is all true. "gofundme" would be a great place to do some laundry huh. Put up a fund raiser and wash all your money through it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSiamHand Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, rebo said: What a coincidence! Misty Eichholz is from Citrus Heights as well: https://citrusheightssentinel.com/2017/12/28/citrus-heights-police-seek-identify-suspects-used-counterfeit-bills/ so i see two possibilities - assuming the suspect is the father of one of the girls, and they said they were going to visit the father in Thailand. 1. They visit him and he gives them the counterfeit bills. they innocently try to exchange them and get caught. this seems unlikely, since they probably know he's a counterfeiter based on the news report in the aforementioned post. 2. They did not do anything with any counterfeit cash and it's all a scam involving the girls, dad, and folks back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, rebo said: What a coincidence! Misty Eichholz is from Citrus Heights as well: https://citrusheightssentinel.com/2017/12/28/citrus-heights-police-seek-identify-suspects-used-counterfeit-bills/ May be they are friends of Misty or business associates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebo Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, amykat said: Well actually, how can I put this delicately ...if they had a good lawyer and even before ... and when the police are inclined to want a case to "go away" they keep things quiet. The more quiet is it, the easier it is to make it go away and reach settlements that are good for everyone involved. Get it?? That is why they are on FB and places asking for people not to involve media and not to draw too much attention to them. Police should become quite careful in this case since every hour more and more people are very interested how this case comes out ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSiamHand Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, rebo said: Police should become quite careful in this case since every hour more and more people are very interested how this case comes out ... assuming police are even involved at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Crash999 said: Even if there isn't intent one can still be held responsible, though the punishment is different of course. An example being manslaughter vs murder. In the UK for example one can be held responsible if not making an effort to return something that's found. Property isn't considered abandoned if it's lost, so it's still owned by someone else. As for the quality of the counterfeits they updated their fundraising page saying that it said the word "copy" on it but that the word copy on it was covered in mud. Seems they didn't think to wipe thick mud off the bills before using it. Well actually Crash it is not the punishment that is different, it is different a crime. Murder is killing someone with intent, and manslaughter is generally, but not always, doing it without that, but at least a different kind of intent. But you probably meant that?? And yes, I know about the lost property thing but in practical circumstances, for the average person in the street, not a person with some special duty, for small amount of free floating cash, there is no way to find the owner and if you can't find the owner, the finder is then allowed to keep it. In a society with some rule of law I can see that maybe if you found that you lost $1000 in the street you could report it lost in that area and if someone found it that might be proof enough ...but who is ever going to get caught with your cash...so doubtful many people would do it. Doubtful anyone could get prosecuted for that. I doubt many governments would care to take time to be involved with that. So I think we are mostly left with a moral issue if you find a large amount and want to try to find the owner? Is there a practical way to do that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, OldSiamHand said: so i see two possibilities - assuming the suspect is the father of one of the girls, and they said they were going to visit the father in Thailand. 1. They visit him and he gives them the counterfeit bills. they innocently try to exchange them and get caught. this seems unlikely, since they probably know he's a counterfeiter based on the news report in the aforementioned post. 2. They did not do anything with any counterfeit cash and it's all a scam involving the girls, dad, and folks back home. OMG, there are over 40 million people who live in CA and over 250 million people who visit CA as tourists every year and who knows how many illegals and drug running and money over the border with Mexico ...I really don't think these two have anything to do with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSiamHand Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, amykat said: Well actually Crash it is not the punishment that is different, it is different a crime. Murder is killing someone with intent, and manslaughter is generally, but not always, doing it without that, but at least a different kind of intent. But you probably meant that?? Manslaughter generally comes in two forms - voluntary manslaughter (where there is intent) and involuntary manslaughter (where there is no kind of intent). For example, playing with a loaded gun with your friends and having it go off accidentally and killing one of them would likely be involuntary manslaughter (at worst). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSiamHand Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, amykat said: OMG, there are over 40 million people who live in CA and over 250 million people who visit CA as tourists every year and who knows how many illegals and drug running and money over the border with Mexico ...I really don't think these two have anything to do with each other. true, but the girls were visiting their father in thailand, the guy in the facebook photo may be the father who was visited, the guy resembles the fella whose picture appears in the news article about counterfeiting in california, and one of the girls was from the same city where the counterfeiting in california took place. All circumstantial at this point, but that's often enough to convict of a crime assuming the details can be fleshed out a bit more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, OldSiamHand said: true, but the girls were visiting their father in thailand, the guy in the facebook photo may be the father who was visited, the guy resembles the fella whose picture appears in the news article about counterfeiting in california, and one of the girls was from the same city where the counterfeiting in california took place. All circumstantial at this point, but that's often enough to convict of a crime assuming the details can be fleshed out a bit more. Oh, really? I did not know you had seen photos of her Father, I skipped some pages in the middle due to posting. I am getting behind :) I will go check FB I think!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdd Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, amykat said: Oh, really? I did not know you had seen photos of her Father, I skipped some pages in the middle due to posting. I am getting behind :) I will go check FB I think!! Check my post on page 19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said: Cases like this bring the point that it's a shame that we don't have money in a digital form, on an immutable ledger, that is completely secure and stored solely by the owner and can't be faked or counterfeited and every single transaction can be traced and proven. Yes, but how are men going to have all their affairs and pay for them? Your wife will see it, your boss might see it on the expense report? How will they attempt to hide their assets in divorces? How will you pay for your secret cocaine addiction? That brings a lot of problems to many men in power?? But I think this is not the only reason!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattd Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Crash999 said: If you search the name in Google of one of the people involved you'll find a news article from their hometown. That is local news to them, do they reveal the source of the news at all? I reckon it is just based on the FB posts, not on facts, if the US Nationals start running with it, backed up with fact, official police statements and so on, then it would have some credibility, so far I have seen nothing on the Thai local news with this apart from FB stuff, in fact ALL of the reported stuff is based on FB nonsense. I just cannot believe that the BIB would just be quiet and not love to splash this around. The quoted bail is absolute rubbish as well, 80k USD for two persons, get outta here............! Edited February 28, 2018 by Mattd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko123 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 If they're lying, they better be damned careful about exactly where they say they found the money on the street. There's an excellent chance that after they pinpoint the location, the police are going to track down any CCTV footage or witnesses in the area, and if there's no evidence that they didn't pick something up off the ground and weren't jumping up and down or high five-ing each other over their unexpected good fortune, these two Thelma and Louise wannabees could be looking at some serious jail time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 54 minutes ago, Mattd said: That is local news to them, do they reveal the source of the news at all? I reckon it is just based on the FB posts, not on facts, if the US Nationals start running with it, backed up with fact, official police statements and so on, then it would have some credibility, so far I have seen nothing on the Thai local news with this apart from FB stuff, in fact ALL of the reported stuff is based on FB nonsense. I just cannot believe that the BIB would just be quiet and not love to splash this around. The quoted bail is absolute rubbish as well, 80k USD for two persons, get outta here............! Where did it say $80K for bail ? I have not come across that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebo Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, Gecko123 said: If they're lying, they better be damned careful about exactly where they say they found the money on the street. There's an excellent chance that after they pinpoint the location, the police are going to track down any CCTV footage or witnesses in the area, and if there's no evidence that they didn't pick something up off the ground and weren't jumping up and down or high five-ing each other over their unexpected good fortune, these two Thelma and Louise wannabees could be looking at some serious jail time. Therefore they said they "found" the money in Cambodia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, amykat said: Where did it say $80K for bail ? I have not come across that. Posted on one of the gofundmepages , have a look around this thread, I have posted the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amykat Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Thank you sanemax, I read it now, I could not figure out how to read the updates before. The site states now that they paid about $10K for bail for both of them, so I don't think they are trying to scam people for that other amount. I have a feeling that they were just calling lawyer(s) from the US randomly off a list to help them and they were getting outrageous quotes that were meant to check out how much money is available from them, for whatever ...to steal, to use for bribes, for overcharging. If you think lawyers take advantage of us here, imagine how bad it is if we are not even here yet, and up for criminal charges?? Think if some lawyer could get you to send him $80K to prepare for "bail" because you are in a panic ... he will take the money and find something to do with it!! For sure ...what that will be remains to be seen. They probably assumed they could trust what the lawyer said, after all his name was on list from the embassy!! But they didn't have the money to send yet. It also states on there, that the reason for the other fund sites, is that they don't take commission? And to try to earn more, they are trying to switch some of the earning to the other place. That they will give back any money they don't use and it will not be used for travel costs and those type of things. I suppose that is just a trust thing, but I have seen other pitches and they never bother to say that. They do say they are selling their property and address that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, OldSiamHand said: assuming police are even involved at this stage. That's the important 'missing' point now in the whole thing. Does change things a lot. Can't imagine the police are not now aware of it and if they are acting on it and they make a statement or whatever the statements from the two women will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfine Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, amykat said: Thank you sanemax, I read it now, I could not figure out how to read the updates before. The site states now that they paid about $10K for bail for both of them, so I don't think they are trying to scam people for that other amount. I have a feeling that they were just calling lawyer(s) from the US randomly off a list to help them and they were getting outrageous quotes that were meant to check out how much money is available from them, for whatever ...to steal, to use for bribes, for overcharging. If you think lawyers take advantage of us here, imagine how bad it is if we are not even here yet, and up for criminal charges?? Think if some lawyer could get you to send him $80K to prepare for "bail" because you are in a panic ... he will take the money and find something to do with it!! For sure ...what that will be remains to be seen. They probably assumed they could trust what the lawyer said, after all his name was on list from the embassy!! But they didn't have the money to send yet. It also states on there, that the reason for the other fund sites, is that they don't take commission? And to try to earn more, they are trying to switch some of the earning to the other place. That they will give back any money they don't use and it will not be used for travel costs and those type of things. I suppose that is just a trust thing, but I have seen other pitches and they never bother to say that. They do say they are selling their property and address that as well. And you believe this stuff? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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