UK Visit Visa - Accelerating Appointment Time with VFS - Any Recent Experience?

[SantiSuk]

I have made application for a UK 6 month visit visa for my de facto (no legal papers) adopted daughter to come with us* and booked an appointment at Trendy Building in 10 days time. Have done this family trip several times before, but VFS premium services are relatively new.

 

I now find there is danger of me running out of time, because we want to travel within Europe too and Schengen visa processing times at France or Germany (could choose either - France looks better form a processing promise perspective and user-friendly prior experience) coupled with the number of Easter and Songkran holidays coming up within the next month makes for a tight critical path. [One has to have a UK visa in the passport before showing up for a Schengen appointment]

 

So I want to accelerate the UK appointment to early this coming week. I can book an appointment in one of their premium value slots as early as Monday (the next working day) but it costs US$110. VFS appears to offer other premium services including either a "Walk in without appointment service" priced at only 1,560 baht or a "Silver Service", which offers the same plus premium lounge and special care/attention at around 4,500 baht. Both of these are pay in cash at counter services, so presumably no need to pre-book or pre-notify. I find it curious that anyone would be mad to pay the US$ 110 service if they can effectively get the same for 1,560 baht. "Does not compute captain". Past experience leaves me sceptical of VFS and I would like to understand/confirm whether the 1,560 baht service is actually available.

 

I could:

• contact VFS - NOT. As highlighted in threads here before, the system has been set up for several years to avoid anyone getting to them except by going to Trendy.
• pay 5 quid+ on an e-mail question to UK Visas and Immigration, which has been a useful and productive service this time and once before, but they promise only a 2 working day turnaround and I need to know sooner than that (actually the question asked a week ago was answered within 18 hours)
• pay £1.50 ish a minute on a UK VI contact phone call to the UK - NOT. I have been phoning them for the last 24 hours and get the immediate automated response "Sorry, this service is not available". Ridiculous and I have to say very untypical of the UK Civil Service who are usually professional enough to give reasons (HMRC were explaining specific daily weather impacts on staff as reasons for long waits or cut-offs last week)
   

As I said - I do this regularly and there is always something about the process that pi$$es me off/stresses me out - so you don't need to turn this into a UK immi/embassy/VFS bashing thread on my account!

 

But if you do have an experience in the last 2 years that might increase my confidence of travelling 540km with family on Monday with an expectation of walking in on Tuesday and being able to submit my documents along with the application already submitted online then I would be very pleased to hear of it. 

 

PS I am aware that I can pay VFS 8,500 ish baht for a sort-of-promised acceleration to a no more than 5 working days on the turnaround of the UK Visit Visa process and will probably have to go for this. Could end up paying about 500 quid in total just to get to see parts of my family that live on the continent. Unfortunately the whole process of applying and visiting has to be fitted into school and university holidays, otherwise I would have started a helluva lot sooner! Cautionary tale for anyone trying to fit in a multi-country visit for Thais to the UK and Europe!

 

 

 

* "Us" = me, a UK citizen 10 years here, Thai wife with 5 year UK visit visa, Thaiglish 8 year old with British citizenship/UK passport and 21 year old adoptee from within wife's extended family (cared for by us for 7 years now and counting)

Edited March 10, 2018 by SantiSuk

[sandyf]

Why not look at it the other way round. You can put your VFS appointment back quite easily, done that a few times, and get the Schengen visa first.

Unless things have changed, as the spouse of an EU citizen, there is a walk in facility at the Germany Embassy and I can assure you that the process is very efficient. They do it in half hour slots and unfortunately we were at the back of our bunch, had to wait about 20 minutes in the queue and then it was only 5 minutes at the desk. The only downside is that for the walk in you have to be there before about 09.30.

When we did the Canada/UK trip, I did the Canada visa first and then we collected the passport from the Canada office and walked next door to the VFS UK office. My wife saw them write on the application form, Canada visa issued, and her passport was back in a couple of days. May have been coincidence but it could have helped speed things up.

 

PS. Sorry did not notice your comment about UK visa first. Where did you get that from. I have done 3 Schengens and never heard of that. As the spouse of an EU citizen there should be no restrictions, other law related, on the issue of visas.

Edited March 15, 2018 by sandyf

[wgdanson]

On 3/15/2018 at 10:06 AM, sandyf said:

h

 

On 3/15/2018 at 10:06 AM, sandyf said:

 

 

On 3/15/2018 at 10:06 AM, sandyf said:

PS. Sorry did not notice your comment about UK visa first. Where did you get that from. I have done 3 Schengens and never heard of that

Do you not have to show travel tickets to get a Schengen Visa, which would be UK - Europe in your case, but you cannot have UK Visa without Thai - UK tickets. I am in the same boat as the op

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by wgdanson

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Do you not have to show travel tickets to get a Schengen Visa, which would be UK - Europe in your case, but you cannot have UK Visa without Thai - UK tickets. I am in the same boat as the op

There is no reuirement to show flight tickets when you apply for a UK Visa, in fact you're specifically advised against purchasing non refundable tickets before a visa is issued, the UKVI include flight tickets in their list of documents not to send.

If you're applying for a Schengen Visa using the freedom of movement directive then the applicant needs to prove that they're either travelling with the EU National or meeting them in the member state, clearly flight tickets would satisfy that requirement, some member states also ask for flight tickets back to Thailand, they're not supposed to as the requirement is for tickets out of the Schengen Area, but that doesn't stip them asking for it.

Most, if not all, Member States also say that if you're visiting another country that reuires a visa, such as the UK, then that visa should be obtained first, though that shouldn't be the case if you're applying under the directive.

[SantiSuk]

 

 

 

 

For interest mostly of those in a tearing hurry; those with de-facto adopted daughters or those with choices to be made about which EU countries to visit

 

 

Doing UK visa first as the Schengen form (for France at least) requires you to have the visa for the country to which you will depart Schengen zone to show at the time of the French appointment (France use an agent similar in concept to VFS, called TLSContact Center).

 

Now doing France first as TLSCC currently cite a probable maximum processing time of 10 working days cf 15 working days at the German embassy (from point of attending the appointment to present documents to knowledge you have a visa). But in general one should do the maths based on time to get an appointment + time from attending appointment + time to get hold of it. 

 

For those whose family group of visa requirants is comprised of EU citizens plus direct family of EU citizens then yes, Germany has walk-in appointments. In my case I have a de facto (no papers) adopted daughter. The German embassy is unsure whether to treat her as direct family or not but the relevant attache encouraged me to submit on the basis she might be and they "would consider it" (she did so qualify with them when she was a child); I had no time to play that game, so I opted for France even though their earliest appointments were available at 5 working days notice and even though they said "no" to accepting my daughter as direct family. I should have asked the German attache if he would at least allow my daughter to attend a walk-in with my wife - I suspect he would and I might not now be struggling with the French process, even if it is promised to be 5 days less in processing.

 

I'll write this all up when I've finished the process of applying for both UK and France-Schengen. It has been torture and I have lots of learning points for y'all, even if unofficially adopted daughters are not in your package! Meanwhile here's a taster:

 

• UK visitor 6 month visas can be got within 2 to 7 working days if you pay 10,000 to 12,000 baht extra on top of the US$128 standard fee. We walked in with our daughter's UK application and (relatively complex) documents on Tuesday 13th April at 4:30pm and collected her passport/visa at Trendy Building at 2:00pm yesterday - the whole thing in slightly less than 48 hours (but the 'promise' is within 5 working days). I welcome the additional services* even though that's a load of money. Next time I'll plan much further ahead and go standard/relaxed! Others will be critical and rightly question whether VFS are devoting service towards those who can pay at the disadvantage of the standard service. [the NHS v private health care type debate]
• My German brother in law told me we should have applied to the Czech Republic if we wanted to be sure of an easy and quick ride into Schengen, but you have to go there first (obviously)
• I am currently trying to sort out why the French application process is seemingly so screwed up. I have the visa application forms that TLSCC's software produced and an appointment in a few days time. Unfortunately the forms that were spat out for the appointment bear a very poor relation to the data I input - missing 30% of the info for my daughter and no reflection of the visa fee-free and other aspects of freedom that should be afforded to spouses of an EU citizen, despite me completing that section of data input. Worryingly they are not responding any more to the online message contact form that I submitted and it's the only way to contact them. I can foresee an emergency reversion to the German process - I think that German attache will allow my daughter to go with my wife for a walk-in service.
   

* Our additional services also included Premium Lounge as we were arriving from a 7 hour car drive from Isaan with the documents all thrown in a file, but not sorted and one or two not copied - translation picked up from a Trendy translator and my primary bank statements - another bump in the road is that one can no longer print-off or see a complete 6 month transaction record online with HSBC UK (always relied on that for 10 years prior) and I received mine via special pleading just a few waking hours before leaving for Bangkok and 3 days after requesting it.

 

Old Git - just seen while composing this your contemporary reply to this thread - I agree with it and I don't think there's anything that conflicts with what I'm saying in this or prior postings. The UK "suggests" that you show details of your intended travel (nothing is a "requirement", except passports new and old (of you are still in possession of them) and the form requires you to give - on data entry online or offline - the details of any family or friends you are staying with or hotels if touring. Still asuggestion, but I played safe and booked/paid for changeable/refundable initial hotels (and my family contacts obviously - but I did not provide or have a complete set of bookings for the nights we are not staying with UK sister or visiting Schengen zone and I did not include any booking evidence for flights or hotels as is in accordance with the guidance). 

[Jip99]

On 3/15/2018 at 10:06 AM, sandyf said:

Why not look at it the other way round. You can put your VFS appointment back quite easily, done that a few times, and get the Schengen visa first.

Unless things have changed, as the spouse of an EU citizen, there is a walk in facility at the Germany Embassy and I can assure you that the process is very efficient. They do it in half hour slots and unfortunately we were at the back of our bunch, had to wait about 20 minutes in the queue and then it was only 5 minutes at the desk. The only downside is that for the walk in you have to be there before about 09.30.

When we did the Canada/UK trip, I did the Canada visa first and then we collected the passport from the Canada office and walked next door to the VFS UK office. My wife saw them write on the application form, Canada visa issued, and her passport was back in a couple of days. May have been coincidence but it could have helped speed things up.

 

PS. Sorry did not notice your comment about UK visa first. Where did you get that from. I have done 3 Schengens and never heard of that. As the spouse of an EU citizen there should be no restrictions, other law related, on the issue of visas.

 

 

You don't need a UK visa first (although there is some logic in the sequence of events - unless the applicant is exiting directly to Thailand).

 

 

What you do need, certainly for Spain and Italy, is evidence of a flight back to Thailand.

[SantiSuk]

Did I say that I have to do it first? If so apologies I didn't mean that - I thought I said I am doing it first*. Might have been Sandyf that introd the concept of a requirement to do it first and I overlooked correcting him in my last posting. There is a box on the France-Schengen forms that require you to put the country and date of your visa expiry (can get away with expected) for any country that you are exiting Schengen to. I think that they also expect to inspect your passport for evidence of entitlement to return to Thailand if you are not a Thai national, but I don't want to go down other loops that tie me up in research at this stage. Maybe when I write the whole story up 

 

*It's more important for us to get to the UK and if we can't complete the Schengen bit in time then we blow that bit off and still go to the UK 

Edited March 16, 2018 by SantiSuk

[SantiSuk]

Woops - sorry Jipp99 - yes I did say that you have to show up with the visa for final destination in your passport when you attend the Schengen interview. That was in my second posting intro (I only looked at my OP) and for some reason I used the wrong reason as to why I was doing UK first in that second posting. For the avoidance of doubt you can do them either way around, but you do need to do them in sequence leaving the applicant's passport for the duration both times*. Sandyf said you don't have to do the UK first but my only postings at that stage did not state that I have to do UK first and nor was that my understanding. I then compounded the confusion by stating that I had to do the UK first for the wrong reason.

 

As if its not confusing enough without this loop that I could ave closed out with a bit more focus/proofing!

 

* there is a paid for service at VFS that allows applicants for a UK visa to get their passport back immediately and I did speculate that it might be useful and less expensive than the 5 day return service in reducing my combined applications timetable. Would have cost me around ten quid to phone or e-mail the UKVI contact helpdesk** to understand how the Visa is subsequently put into the UK passport once the applicant has used it to get a Schengen visa and I figured that a promised 5 day return service was easier and achieved my objectives under time constraints given that I don't live in Bangkok with time to run backwards and forwards between embassies (potentially an extra visit to UKVFS to get the UK visa implanted)

 

**Amounts based on current experience - I used both e-mail and (returned) phone call services during the course of this UK visa application and both were 10 quid on my credit card, give or take. I thought they would be nearer 5 quid based on their online spec but hey ho - buttons compared with what else I've been paying for!

 

[theoldgit]

 
 
You don't need a UK visa first (although there is some logic in the sequence of events - unless the applicant is exiting directly to Thailand).

Some Consulates do require that you do, I’ll look it up after the weekend.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

 

 

Do you not have to show travel tickets to get a Schengen Visa, which would be UK - Europe in your case, but you cannot have UK Visa without Thai - UK tickets. I am in the same boat as the op

 

That depends on the status of the applicant and it is not necessary for a 'core' family member of an EU citizen.

A few years ago we made an application to the German Embassy and they had introduced an online interactive application process which had no way of differentiating between normal applicants and EU family members. I reported this as breach of EU regulations to both the embassy and Solvit. You can read the saga on this thread and in particular post No 11 where the embassy admitted their mistake and that if my wife came back with a paper application and the specified docs she would be treated as a family member.

I looked at the VIDEX page and there is now a box asking if you are claiming the right to free movement.

 

[SantiSuk]

Just been looking again at document requirements from French Embassy/ TLSContact Center. There is actually a clear requirement for the visa of your eventual country of destination* to be obtained prior to a French application. Sorry guys - had I had time to look it up properly a few hours ago I could have saved us all a lot of postings.

 

No word from the French about my concern that their systems are f**d up despite calls via two routes to repeat initial calls of 40 hours ago. And now we go into the weekend with me worrying that we show up for appointment to be told the applications you submitted - bad data transfers by TLSContactCentre (supposedly data-validated by their systems prior to printing out the appointment/visa applications ), not my poor data input - means you will have to start again. I'll ring the French Embassy now and see if I can get through to anyone sensible.

 

Message seems to be is that no two Schengen nations are the same despite working off the same (identical) visa application form (if Germany and France are anything to go by). Supporting document requirements, policy interpretations in some cases and systems processes for getting a visa are different and it's vital one studies the specifics well in advance, setting aside any previous experience and generalist guidance the likes of us might come up with 

 

*if required - ie a Thai will not require to do anything if leaving Schengen for Thailand, a Thai will require to show a UK visa if leaving Schngen for UK even if it's prior to going back to the UK and, maybe I as an accompanying sponsor might need to demonstrate I can return to Thailand (have rentry permit anyway).

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Just been looking again at document requirements from French Embassy/ TLSContact Center. There is actually a clear requirement for the visa of your eventual country of destination* to be obtained prior to a French application.

 

I have had a look at that website and as far as I can see the requirement appears for a standard application but it does not seem to be on the page for EU family. 

When posting info like this it needs to be kept fairly clear which type of application is being referred to, with 2 different applications on the go it would be easy for people to lose track.

https://fr.tlscontact.com/th/BKK/page.php?pid=Family_EU_less90

[SantiSuk]

Sandyf: I agree with your comment about needing to differentiate and you are right that there seems to be no requirement for the visa of final destination if you are applying for an EU Family Member visa. 

 

Thank you for reminding me to look at the document requirements for the EU Family Member. A combination of distraction by the problems I have faced with this application, the difficulty of getting TLSCC to respond to my request for help and downright stupid assumptions - that I have fulfilled the documentation requirements for my wife to Enter France once already (in 2010) so surely I can leave sorting all that out until I know how to sort the application process - has resulted in me looking at the documentation requirements rather late in the day. I now find that it has all got far trickier than it was in 2010. In particular to qualify for the EU family member (spouse) France-Schengen visa one must now:

 

• Get the Thai marriage certificate legalized
• Get proof that the marriage is recognized in the UK (yes I have seen that Thai Visa and the like say this is not legally required)
• Get my wife's birth certificate legalized
• Swear (I presume via a legal notary) that I can financially support my wife in the travels

None of this was required in 2010 and none of it was required by Germany in 2012 and 2015

 

No way in hell can I get through that lot in the one day I can cut out for visiting Bangkok (again) one day before my selected appointment day

 

Plan B is now to:

 

• Ask the French embassy if I can apply for a standard tourist visa, as though my wife were not the wife of an EU citizen. Have now found their online form for getting a phone call back. Crazy but true but this is far easier and not that much more expensive. Have to pay the visa fee and travel insurance but all that legalization and swearing and paying the UK embassy to say my marriage is legal would be expensive on the combination of fees, taxis, time and sanity!
• If necessary and possible, abort my Thursday appointment with TLSCC and apply at the embassy the following Monday morning

Plan C is to abort France and go back to the German visit first and punt on them accepting both de facto adopted daughter and wife as EU family hoping that they are not as anal on requirements as seemingly are the French. Getting a walk-in appointment for both legal wife and de facto daughter (which I think they might do) early next week might still get me the visas in time.

 

If anyone out there knows how to access the German visit visa requirements in respect of an EU family member application I would appreciate some guidance. I can navigate the (German and Thai only) website via Google translate, which does a good job on German language, but still cannot find reference to the EU family member documentation requirements.

 

Plan D is two fingers and vow never to visit that continent again - or sole visits only. This stuff really is not worth the stress
 

 

The problems with my French Schengen visa application is that TLSCC's software seems to be all screwed up and it severely mangled my data input to turn out semi-complete formal application documents that we are supposed to take along to appointment with our supporting documents on Thursday. TLSCC seemed to have given up responding to requests for call-back but after 42 hours and a pleading second message I was eventually called just before the weeken set in. The respondent seemed totally non-plussed by the suggestion my applications were a pale shadow of what I had entered and assured me it would be ok to turn up with those and they would sort it out. She did however refuse to give me her name so I'm without a parachute if the agents we present to say we have a pile of cr@p and must start again! I noticed that the TLSCC software was down for maintenance over part of the weekend - perhaps it works properly now!