Taking my ex wife's child to Laos for two days

[pcs2015]

I am not sure if this is the right category to post in ...

 

I am very close to my ex wife's little daughter. Actually she sees me as her papa.

Anyway ... is there a possibility that I can take her for a short trip out of Thailand, in this case to Laos?

 

I am not on the birth certificate, I have no legal rights or obligations. 

The biological father is a Thai who does not care about the girl.

 

Is there a legally safe way for me to take her to Laos for two days?

Maybe with written statements from the mother (and maybe father)?

What documents would I need to cross the border?

 

Or should I better forget about this? I don't want to end up being accused of kidnapping.

 

By the way .. I am obviously farang ;-)

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by pcs2015

[cardinalblue]

Kidnapping the least of your problems....

[punchjudy]

Dear papa, I would forget all about this unnecessary trip.

[Songlaw]

Though it would seem you are well-intentioned, this venture would likely not turn out as planned. My advice would be to take her to a local kiddie-park and do so, as visibly as possible.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Songlaw
Italics didn’t take.

[pcs2015]

I am not sure what to think about these answers.
I don't think there is anything wrong in being a father for a kid that is not yours especially if the real father does not care for the kid.

 

If I am doing anything legally wrong already it would be nice if anybody could elaborate on this.

 

@Moderator: Maybe this topic belongs more into the "Family" section?

 

2 hours ago, Songlaw said:

Though it would seem you are well-intentioned, this venture would likely not turn out as planned. My advice would be to take her to a local kiddie-park and do so, as visibly as possible.

Well, that's what we do most times. Going to outdoor and indoor playgrounds, the Zoo, parks, etc.

What are you implying with "doing it as visibly as possible"?

 

Back to my original post:

Anybody knows if it is possible to make a short trip to Laos together?
Or I guess I should do it as always and just stay in Thailand with the little one.

 

 

[villa82]

I agree with the other posts, this is such a very bad idea.

[Sumarianson]

Although I agree with other posters that it is not a good idea as you could get into trouble if accusations fly from any angle. 

It is possible but unlikely.

You will need to get the permission of both mother and father in writing and signed and stamped at the Amphur. The father will have to prove paternity and give permission. As I said, highly unlikely. I wouldn't give you permission to take my child. Then again he is Thai I presume and may take money.

Advise highly against it. Take the child to Kidzania in Bangkok. They will enjoy just as much or a holiday in any number of resorts. Make sure to take the mother. 

[pcs2015]

17 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Although I agree with other posters that it is not a good idea as you could get into trouble if accusations fly from any angle. 

It is possible but unlikely.

You will need to get the permission of both mother and father in writing and signed and stamped at the Amphur. The father will have to prove paternity and give permission. As I said, highly unlikely. I wouldn't give you permission to take my child. Then again he is Thai I presume and may take money.

Advise highly against it. Take the child to Kidzania in Bangkok. They will enjoy just as much or a holiday in any number of resorts. Make sure to take the mother. 

Thank you for your answer.
I am ok with that. I guessed already that it might be too much of a hassle to try to spend some days outside of Thailand.

Then you are writing "Make sure to take the mother". So I am sensing the same tone here, no offense, that I might be doing something unlawful or "morally wrong" by taking care of the child.
We have spend countless times together at Kidzania, parks and zoos and a couple of times in resorts ... all without the mother.
As I said the kid sees me as her father.

So again, am I doing anything wrong or dangerous. If so how could I be on a legally safer side?

Edited March 14, 2018 by pcs2015

[HooHaa]

i am honestly uncertain of the legalities, but i would suspect land and air crossings may differ in policy. land crossing may be alright with a letter form the mother, contact information, but again, im not sure. Air travel will most certainly be more stringent.

As for the clown show of paranoia and despair, take them with a grain of salt, misery runs a deep river through thai visa, and many on here would drag you under if they could.

 

[smotherb]

11 minutes ago, pcs2015 said:

Thank you for your answer.
I am ok with that. I guessed already that it might be too much of a hassle to try to spend some days outside of Thailand.

Then you are writing "Make sure to take the mother". So I am sensing the same tone here, no offense, that I might be doing something unlawful or "morally wrong" by taking care of the child.
We have spend countless times together at Kidzania, parks and zoos and a couple of times in resorts ... all without the mother.
As I said the kid sees me as her father.

So again, am I doing anything wrong or dangerous. If so how could I be on a legally safer side?

I do not see as much concern about your intentions in the replies as I do to the possible accusations which could be made by anyone witnessing your trip with a young girl who is not your daughter. Paedophilia is a common offense in Southeast Asia and some people will simply not understand a platonic relationship between a man and a young girl.

[pcs2015]

7 minutes ago, smotherb said:

I do not see as much concern about your intentions in the replies as I do to the possible accusations which could be made by anyone witnessing your trip with a young girl who is not your daughter. Paedophilia is a common offense in Southeast Asia and some people will simply not understand a platonic relationship between a man and a young girl.

Well, I guessed that this might come up.
But then what can one do?

The little one is not 3 years yet.

Countless times I have been with her in parks, zoos, etc. Things that fathers and daughters do together.

What happened if it was my real daughter but didn't look much "lug khrueng"? I have seen a couple of times where the kids of a foreigner and his Thai wife looked very much Thai (I have seen the other way around too).
How many foreigners here in Thailand are taking care of their wifes' kids that are from an earlier relationship?

I would guess many.

 

So, seriously ... what can you do? You are trying to be the father of the little one and now you have to look around you every time you take her to the park or resort?
Very sad I would say

 

 

[smotherb]

2 minutes ago, pcs2015 said:

Well, I guessed that this might come up.
But then what can one do?

The little one is not 3 years yet.

Countless times I have been with her in parks, zoos, etc. Things that fathers and daughters do together.

What happened if it was my real daughter but didn't look much "lug khrueng"? I have seen a couple of times where the kids of a foreigner and his Thai wife looked very much Thai (I have seen the other way around too).
How many foreigners here in Thailand are taking care of their wifes' kids that are from an earlier relationship?

I would guess many.

 

So, seriously ... what can you do? You are trying to be the father of the little one and now you have to look around you every time you take her to the park or resort?
Very sad I would say

 

 

If it were your real daughter you could prove it to dissuade any adverse actions. Yes, it is a sad situation, but it happens everywhere. I was with my Filipina wife in the US and the police came to our door. It seems we had just moved into a new apartment and a neighbor woman thought I was taking underage girls there--my wife was 21 at the time, but she did look a lot younger.

[khunPer]

I presume the girl will need a pasport of her own, as you're not the legal father; and furthermore a statement with permission from legal parents, approved by the amphor.

 

Even being real and legal father of a Thai citizen child, having her own passport and my family name, I need to bring her mum, or an authorized permission, just in case when taking my daughter out of the country.

[pcs2015]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

I presume the girl will need a pasport of her own, as you're not the legal father; and furthermore a statement with permission from legal parents, approved by the amphor.

 

Even being real and legal father of a Thai citizen child, having her own passport and my family name, I need to bring her mum, or an authorized permission, just in case when taking my daughter out of the country.

 

Ok, decision made. We are staying in Thailand. Too complicated and too much hassle. And in the end I support the fact that it is not easy to take a child out of the country without the consent of the parents.

 

For any potential day-to-day "problems" I will ask the mother of the child to write and sign a short statement for me.
Probably not much worth but better than nothing.

 

For a long term perspective I was told that the only way would be an international adoption. But that would also mean that the mother had to give up her legal status as a mother. Very complicated.

[Songlaw]

6 hours ago, pcs2015 said:

I am not sure what to think about these answers.
I don't think there is anything wrong in being a father for a kid that is not yours especially if the real father does not care for the kid.

 

If I am doing anything legally wrong already it would be nice if anybody could elaborate on this.

 

@Moderator: Maybe this topic belongs more into the "Family" section?

 

Well, that's what we do most times. Going to outdoor and indoor playgrounds, the Zoo, parks, etc.

What are you implying with "doing it as visibly as possible"?

 

Back to my original post:

Anybody knows if it is possible to make a short trip to Laos together?
Or I guess I should do it as always and just stay in Thailand with the little one.

 

 

I'm not implying anything. I am suggesting that if you must take the child anywhere alone, you and the child would be best protected from undue hassle by staying as visible as possible. Meaning, using public transport instead of your personal vehicle, not escorting the child into the loo (staying by the door and listening intently, however, would certainly be encouraged), and things of that nature. I have a bit of experience with the situation you describe and have seen how seemingly innocent situations can take on a life of their own here. In order to ward off unpleasant (and possibly traumatic from the child's perspective), time-consuming interactions with authorities you should at least consider bringing someone from the child's biological family along for the ride; the child's aunt or someone, and if that's not possible, a mutual Thai friend, or even as another poster suggested, the child's mother. In Thailand, misperceptions are best avoided, at all costs. Ultimately, you will do what you think is best. I wish you well. 

[theoldgit]

Can people refrain from passing judgement on the perceived rights and wrongs of taking his ex-partners child on holiday and stick tho answering his question regarding the immigration implications. 

 

Thank you