5 hours ago, captspectre said:

simple, he made the Thai's LOSE FACE! they can put up with anything but loosing face!

 

Nonsense, he broke the law!

Still not enough full information, in order to be able to pass sensible comment.

The mother was employed in UK and may choose on her own to bring to boy back to UK.

That is her intention. Her, and his, home is in Scotland.

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This is a confusing story, it states that these two guys were arrested at Bangkok Airport, but it doesn't make clear whether they were entering or leaving Thailand (I may have missed this).

Then the story goes on to say they were both accused of trespass which would indicate they were not arrested on entry but on attempting to depart.

All very confusing

This is a confusing story, it states that these two guys were arrested at Bangkok Airport, but it doesn't make clear whether they were entering or leaving Thailand (I may have missed this).
Then the story goes on to say they were both accused of trespass which would indicate they were not arrested on entry but on attempting to depart.
All very confusing

They were attempting to leave, having taken the boy, and his passport, from his mother's family's home, without permission.

Having spoken with the mother a few times, I am a little concerned that her hopes are rather unrealistic. She claims the father was happy for her take the boy for a holiday and her sister's wedding in December. She didn't return to Scotland as planned as the boy sustained a nasty leg injury on a motorbike. The boy has now missed a lot of school and she has lost her job. Had the father not taken the action he did, it is my belief that mother and son would have returned to Scotland a couple of months later than planned, and this mess could have been avoided.

She still is planning to return to Scotland. I'm not sure what legal consequences she may face if she does, especially if the father remains in prison in Thailand.

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Key is that the child has a British passport.  With a British father it is easy to get and changes the dynamic somewhat.

22 hours ago, seajae said:

who has legal custody of the child,  the mother or father, lot of info not included in this so its a bit hard to see who is the one at fault. If the father has been granted legal custody and  the mother abducted the child then she should be in jail, again really poor reporting but what can we expect

The problem is you are taken away a child out of the authority of the parent. (Even if the parent is wrong. Then your action is more wrong)

For an outstander as well and insider this is is emotionally difficult to understand.

 

 

22 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

He needed to domesticate the UK custody order in Thailand.  There's no reciprocity treaty as Thailand is not a member of the Hague Convention (due to being on the wrong side in WW2).  He would probably need to go through a child custody court trial in Thailand.  Instead, he took a shortcut commonly known as "parental kidnapping".  There's no self-help remedy for recovering a child in a country that hasn't recognized your legal custody.  No bail for you and no sympathy from me.

 

Agreed, something tells me that nice guy Sean didn't do his homework.

 

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

They were attempting to leave, having taken the boy, and his passport, from his mother's family's home, without permission.

Having spoken with the mother a few times, I am a little concerned that her hopes are rather unrealistic. She claims the father was happy for her take the boy for a holiday and her sister's wedding in December. She didn't return to Scotland as planned as the boy sustained a nasty leg injury on a motorbike. The boy has now missed a lot of school and she has lost her job. Had the father not taken the action he did, it is my belief that mother and son would have returned to Scotland a couple of months later than planned, and this mess could have been avoided.

She still is planning to return to Scotland. I'm not sure what legal consequences she may face if she does, especially if the father remains in prison in Thailand.

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I think you may be a little biased in your take on this case due to your prior relationship with the mother. Let's say she took the boy for the wedding/holiday ,fine , we can say it was ok for her to do it's is her son. But do you think a court in UK would grant him custody if he did not prove that he had had no contact from her or son  since she left?  No contact to his school saying when he would return?  If serious injury on motorbike why wasn't the father informed or contacted for money or insurance contact  or even sent back to UK for proper treatment?   You say she planned to return, did she honestly think they would hold her job indefinitely if she did not give the job an idea of when or if she would be returning?   You seem to be a little naive and believe her stories as the Gospel truth.

I think you may be a little biased in your take on this case due to your prior relationship with the mother. Let's say she took the boy for the wedding/holiday ,fine , we can say it was ok for her to do it's is her son. But do you think a court in UK would grant him custody if he did not prove that he had had no contact from her or son  since she left?  No contact to his school saying when he would return?  If serious injury on motorbike why wasn't the father informed or contacted for money or insurance contact  or even sent back to UK for proper treatment?   You say she planned to return, did she honestly think they would hold her job indefinitely if she did not give the job an idea of when or if she would be returning?   You seem to be a little naive and believe her stories as the Gospel truth.

Yes, as she's my friend (or was) I'm biased and I have no idea whether she's telling me the truth. I believe the court made the custody decision before they left the UK. Where she may well be being disingenuous is saying that the father was "happy" with her taking him on holiday to Thailand. However he only reacted in the way he did, after they didn't return as expected. 

I certainly don't believe everything she says; I'm just reporting what she says.

 

Obviously she realises she has lost her job by not returning to work as agreed, and I expect she has informed the school, or at least the father's family have.

 

The foot/ankle injury was nasty but treated locally. She is proudly self-sufficient so no reason to ask the father for money, especially under their estranged circumstances.

 

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Given the harsh treatment now being received by Mr.Smith and Mr. Felton for either abduction or trespassing charges, I only guess there may be some non-mitigating circumstances involved that have not been reported in the UK Press.

4 hours ago, connda said:

Like a said, it sucks.  My 18 month old daughter was awarded to my wife who was an alcoholic and drug addict.  At that time, courts always awarded children to the mother unless the father could proved the mother unfit.  Substance abuse was basically my word against hers.  So she had my daughter for the next ten years until she screwed up, and I was awarded custody by the state.  I didn't go kidnap my daughter regardless of how justified I would have been in the act.  Without legal mechanisms between Scotland and Thailand, then the father is unfortunately simply out of luck.  Like I had to accept an unfit ex-wife getting custody of my daughter, the father would have been better off to simply accept that his only recourse was the Thai courts, and attempt to negotiate a custody agreement.  But he believed he was justified to kidnap the child who now resides within the Thai legal system.  I feel for him, but I don't condone what he or his fellow kidnapper did.  He made a bet, he lost, and now he faces the Thai judicial system that is now squarely aimed at he and Mr. Felton.  It's a sad story, but they had other options.

 

Pardon me, but I do not think that leaving one's 18 month old daughter with an "alcoholic and drug addict" for 10 years is a good example of "doing the right thing".  It may be an example many other things, but I can't think of anything that would have the slightest positive conation. 

 

Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the prison these gentlemen are staying, but if I were, and from what I've read of the story, I'd feel inclined to drop by and see if there was anything I could do to make their stay a little easier on a day to day basis.  I think it would be good if some TV members in the area could do so.

 

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

They were attempting to leave, having taken the boy, and his passport, from his mother's family's home, without permission.




Having spoken with the mother a few times, I am a little concerned that her hopes are rather unrealistic. She claims the father was happy for her take the boy for a holiday and her sister's wedding in December. She didn't return to Scotland as planned as the boy sustained a nasty leg injury on a motorbike. The boy has now missed a lot of school and she has lost her job. Had the father not taken the action he did, it is my belief that mother and son would have returned to Scotland a couple of months later than planned, and this mess could have been avoided.




She still is planning to return to Scotland. I'm not sure what legal consequences she may face if she does, especially if the father remains in prison in Thailand.

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Sounds like the mother is spinning a fairy tale.  I think the information reported by the media, about the father not allowing her to travel abroad with the child (which may or may not have been warranted), but the mother still taking the child abroad without permission, and then not giving the father any way to contact the child or knowing how his son is, sounds more plausible.  



 



Had the father thought the mother would return with his son soon, he may not have taken the action he did.  As it was, it seems he had no way of knowing if that woman would ever come back with his son, and thus acted how he did.  In hindsight, the shit really hit the fan for him and this other fella helping him and I'm sure they would have done things differently.



 



I'm not sure exactly what charges are holding the father and the other gentleman in prison, but I think it's a sure thing that the charges are brought on by the mother, as afaik, she's the only one who can claim there was anything illegal in what the father did.   I think it's also a good bet that the reason they are still in prison is that the mother is refusing to drop the charges.



 

Edited March 20, 20188 yr by Awk

3 hours ago, Awk said:

 

Pardon me, but I do not think that leaving one's 18 month old daughter with an "alcoholic and drug addict" for 10 years is a good example of "doing the right thing".  It may be an example many other things, but I can't think of anything that would have the slightest positive conation. 

 

Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the prison these gentlemen are staying, but if I were, and from what I've read of the story, I'd feel inclined to drop by and see if there was anything I could do to make their stay a little easier on a day to day basis.  I think it would be good if some TV members in the area could do so.

 

Pardon me, but that was a decision of the court of the State in which I resided at the time.  I had one of the best family law attorneys in the county.  The choice to place my daughter with my ex-wife was the sole responsibility of the court system.  So if you have a problem mate about me "doing the right thing", aim that BS opinion at the US judicial system.  I did what I could.  It was completely out of my hands. I bear no responsibly for the court's stupidity.
I regained custody of her at 11 years old, and spent the next 7 years attempting to give her back a childhood.  For the most part, I succeeded.  To her own credit, my kid was a survivor and had some incredibly well-developed social skills. To this day, I'm extremely proud of her.

Not I good news report but it seems for me he do it in his own way and not the right way, shortcuts never going to be good 

 

6 hours ago, connda said:

Pardon me, but that was a decision of the court of the State in which I resided at the time.  I had one of the best family law attorneys in the county.  The choice to place my daughter with my ex-wife was the sole responsibility of the court system.  So if you have a problem mate about me "doing the right thing", aim that BS opinion at the US judicial system.  I did what I could.  It was completely out of my hands. I bear no responsibly for the court's stupidity.
I regained custody of her at 11 years old, and spent the next 7 years attempting to give her back a childhood.  For the most part, I succeeded.  To her own credit, my kid was a survivor and had some incredibly well-developed social skills. To this day, I'm extremely proud of her.

I applaud your patience, control and determination during what must have been a frustrating and difficult very long ten years. Glad to hear that it worked out well for you and your daughter eventually. This happens all too often, and not all have a good outcome for the child. All the best.

10 hours ago, Awk said:

<snip>
I'm not sure exactly what charges are holding the father and the other gentleman in prison, but I think it's a sure thing that the charges are brought on by the mother, as afaik, she's the only one who can claim there was anything illegal in what the father did.   I think it's also a good bet that the reason they are still in prison is that the mother is refusing to drop the charges.

 

 

'Lotta clout that girl must have living the last 10 years in the UK.

22 hours ago, greenchair said:

He's not been convicted, confiscation of his passport is standard. The child is British. She'll end up a hooker on a pole before she is 16 if she remains here. 

Half cast children with only the Thai parent, are not accepted and don't do well in Thailand. The man had full custody by the courts of the child. The mother abducted her illegally. 

i dont disagree with anything your saying, but someone did not like what he was doing or he would not be in jail.

'Lotta clout that girl must have living the last 10 years in the UK.

Not sure what that means. All I know is that she took full advantage of living in the UK, went to college, got qualified, worked at golf clubs and then in hotel management. I think she may now have dual nationality. Unfortunately she's most likely jeopardised everything now.

 

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On 3/19/2018 at 5:57 PM, zaphod reborn said:

He needed to domesticate the UK custody order in Thailand.  There's no reciprocity treaty as Thailand is not a member of the Hague Convention (due to being on the wrong side in WW2).

 

How wrong can you be, yes Thailand is a member of the Hague Convention.

 

https://www.ag.gov.au/FamiliesAndMarriage/Families/InternationalFamilyLaw/Pages/HagueConventionOnTheCivilAspectsOfInternationalChildAbduction.aspx

 

"The enactment of the International Civil Cooperation on the Breach of Rights of Custody Act, B.E. 2555 (2012), also known as the Thailand Child Abduction Act, on April 9, 2013, provides a legal platform to support the intentions of the Hague Abduction Convention."

 

http://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand-child-abduction-act-legal-recourse-parents

 

 

"(due to being on the wrong side in WW2)." I guess that Germany, Japan and Italy were on the right side then, seeing as they are also members.

Edited March 21, 20188 yr by pearciderman

1 hour ago, catman20 said:

i dont disagree with anything your saying, but someone did not like what he was doing or he would not be in jail.

Well, obviously. 

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Not sure what that means. <snip>

It meant that I guess there is a lot more going on here than just the mother filing charges and I would also guess a lot of it has to do with Mr. Felton's involvement.

6 hours ago, greenchair said:

Well, obviously. 

NO! what about bail ??????????????????

NO! what about bail ??????????????????

As each man has a Gofundme appeal, I would think they don't have the money for bail.

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On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:58 PM, connda said:

Pardon me, but that was a decision of the court of the State in which I resided at the time.  I had one of the best family law attorneys in the county.  The choice to place my daughter with my ex-wife was the sole responsibility of the court system.  So if you have a problem mate about me "doing the right thing", aim that BS opinion at the US judicial system.  I did what I could.  It was completely out of my hands. I bear no responsibly for the court's stupidity.
I regained custody of her at 11 years old, and spent the next 7 years attempting to give her back a childhood.  For the most part, I succeeded.  To her own credit, my kid was a survivor and had some incredibly well-developed social skills. To this day, I'm extremely proud of her.

No disrespect, but your "best family law attorney" didn't do a very good job then, did he?

He should have avoided the Swampy route...and chosen the Hottie Yingluck's route instead, to flee the country....!!!

7 hours ago, observer90210 said:

He should have avoided the Swampy route...and chosen the Hottie Yingluck's route instead, to flee the country....!!!

No helicopter.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30324929

From Mr. Smith's fundraising page: 

20 hrs ago

"We cannot thank you all enough for you’re continuos support, donations and kind messages. Joes court case has been set for April. Please continue to help with any donations no matter how big or small to help with lawyers fees. We are so so close to our boys being home"

Instead of wasting money and time on all these international flights, helpers, legal battles and lawyers, should have just offered her some money. To my knowledge, it usually solves most of these kinds of disputes....

He is not a hero but a criminal.