Thai man smoking in the temple on Pattaya Tai!

[joeyg]

It was about two months ago in the big temple downtown at Pattaya Tai.  I go there from time to time over the years. Give some donation put the goldleaf on the Buddhas and get my blessings from the monks.  About two months ago, after I was done with my routine I went over to the monk to get my blessings and wrist thread. I was shocked to see one of the local guys they are sitting behind the monk smoking a cigarette. I've never seen anything like this before Especially middle of the day and a big temple like that.

 

These are "mafia" type Guys that hang and oversee the temple there.  A month or so before I had  given my donation in the box  and was waiting to get my wrist thread from the monk. One one of those guys that are usually sitting there next to the monks left started yelling at me saying that you have to give more money. I took out 100 bhat and I said is this OK or do you want all my money.?  The Monk and the guy looked shocked. I gave him my hundred baht quickly got my wrist thread and left.

 

Very sad state of affairs especially for an aspiring Buddhist like myself that needs all the help and encouragement he can get.  Unbelievable really for me anyway...

[keithpa]

See the plate going around in catholic churches every day mate. Twice  performance in fact.

[inzman]

They aren’t real Buddhists here, they are all in it for the money. Real Buddhists shun money! Most go to the temple to pray for more money here ! But I suppose all religions are really money generating businesses. Organized religion is a cancer on society. 

[geriatrickid]

The subject wasn't the  alleged improprieties  of other religions. Rather it was the defilement of the temple and the inappropriate demand for money.

OP should take this as a sign that he should not bother pursuing his Buddhism.

 

[champers]

One can choose to give or not. Surely donations go to the upkeep of the temple (including the purchase of some ashtrays) and are used to subsidise the pastoral work undertaken by monks.

If you do think that your donation will end up where it shouldn't, just leave without donating a satang.

[mauGR1]

Lord Buddha was born a Brahmin, but he was against organised religion...As far as i know.

Enough said.

 

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think it violates any rules for monks to smoke, but I could be wrong. Is the problem because it was in a temple?

Edited March 23, 2018 by Ulysses G.

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I don't think it violates any rules for monks to smoke, but I could be wrong. Is the problem because it was in a temple?

Tobacco contains intoxicating drugs and contaminants.

The 5th Precept says no willful consumption of intoxicants.

 

I would go one step further  and say that the  precept that compares the body to a chariot and that  humans have an obligation/duty to stay healthy and to do no harm to their body says no tobacco.  Tobacco does harm and damages general health.

 

If someone wants to    get around the issue,  he can. He may think he has found a way, but in his heart he knows he is wrong and the same as a junkie addicted to yaba. Smoking is a weakness and is self destructive. Not appropriate behavior for enlightened peopel.

[joeyg]

On 3/23/2018 at 1:47 PM, inzman said:

They aren’t real Buddhists here, they are all in it for the money. Real Buddhists shun money! Most go to the temple to pray for more money here ! But I suppose all religions are really money generating businesses. Organized religion is a cancer on society. 

It's taken me quite a while but sadly I've come to the same conclusion.

[joeyg]

18 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The subject wasn't the  alleged improprieties  of other religions. Rather it was the defilement of the temple and the inappropriate demand for money.

OP should take this as a sign that he should not bother pursuing his Buddhism.

 

Buddha's teachings are still the guide I try to live by.  it makes for a very nice life.  Even though I'm not very good at it I still try.  I have had it with all organized religions.  Interestingly, Buddhism is actually atheism and not a religion.  It's more a code of conduct like Confusionism. Buddha was a man/human being before he attained Nirbanna/Perfection.

 

[joeyg]

9 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I don't think it violates any rules for monks to smoke, but I could be wrong. Is the problem because it was in a temple?

Monks are not allowed to smoke.  although it seems most of the especially younger ones do.  the guy that was smoking was one of the local tough guys sitting next to the monk in the temple.  Smoking in the temple is definitely prohibited.

[joeyg]

17 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Lord Buddha was born a Brahmin, but he was against organised religion...As far as i know.

Enough said.

 

Yes.  Organized religion is not mentioned by him.  I was just shocked to see this guy smoking and everyone, maybe about 12 Thais making believe they didn't see it.  If I was back in the states I would have spoken up.  Here you'd probably wind up catching a beating.

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

7 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Buddha's teachings are still the guide I try to live by.  it makes for a very nice life.  Even though I'm not very good at it I still try.  I have had it with all organized religions.  Interestingly, Buddhism is actually atheism and not a religion.  It's more a code of conduct like Confusionism. Buddha was a man/human being before he attained Nirbanna/Perfection.

 

 

Why bother? Live by your own principles.

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Why bother? Live by your own principles.

if you're coming into the harbor you follow the marker buoys or wind up on the rocks.  You don't make your own way up to navigate.  Anyway my understanding has always been to choose a path and try to follow it, not invent one.

[Basil B]

On 23/03/2018 at 5:25 AM, keithpa said:

See the plate going around in catholic churches every day mate. Twice  performance in fact.

Things are about to change... 

Quote

The new move by the church in Saint-François de Molitor is also gaining popularity in other parts of Europe.

It will leave worshippers without the traditional excuse of having no cash in their pockets.

Churches in Paris and elsewhere have taken a hit by the increasingly cashless world, with traditional donations reportedly stagnating to just €3 a year per person, money that goes towards expenses such as heating and electricity.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/01/19/tap-to-donate-french-church-to-take-contactless-cards-for-donations

 

Maybe the big temple downtown at Pattaya Tai will be the first to replace the donation box with a contactless PDQ machine...

Edited March 24, 2018 by Basil B

[Basil B]

If the OP believes the Wat is being controlled by the Mafia would suggest thinking of praying elsewhere, like everything else in Pattaya the closer to Walking St the more expensive for less... 

[DrTuner]

A monk in civil clothes having a day off enjoying a fag? At least he wasn't having the usual yaba party.

 

The temples around here are full of all sorts of petty criminals getting a pass from the BiB.

[stanleycoin]

On 23/03/2018 at 1:47 PM, inzman said:

They aren’t real Buddhists here, they are all in it for the money. Real Buddhists shun money! Most go to the temple to pray for more money here ! But I suppose all religions are really money generating businesses. Organized religion is a cancer on society. 

Yes, your 100% correct. 

The cancer is massive in Thailand.

Its all about money and selfish acts.

Me Me Me and guess what , more Me.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by stanleycoin

[TaaSaparot]

I have seen Monks smoking in the grounds of Wat Chai many many times.

[joeyg]

19 hours ago, Basil B said:

Things are about to change... 

http://www.euronews.com/2018/01/19/tap-to-donate-french-church-to-take-contactless-cards-for-donations

 

Maybe the big temple downtown at Pattaya Tai will be the first to replace the donation box with a contactless PDQ machine...

For me it's really a shame in this crazy world what is philosophy has really been an anchor for me and help me to get through some difficult times. However it really is quite passé and all for shower now.  Even at its peak Thai Buddhism was at best animism.  IMHO.

 

[teflonjon]

Big deal...was at the small rest stop on the way back from the airport when a minibus full of eight thai monks in full garb stopped.  All eight of them had a cigarette break and threw the butts on the ground when finished.  The only person that came out of that minibus that didn't have a cigarette was the driver.  Even the thais walking by were making comments about this.  Thais are buddhists of convenience, nothing more.

[lamyai3]

On 3/24/2018 at 4:00 PM, joeyg said:

Buddha's teachings are still the guide I try to live by.  it makes for a very nice life.  Even though I'm not very good at it I still try.  I have had it with all organized religions.  Interestingly, Buddhism is actually atheism and not a religion.  It's more a code of conduct like Confusionism. Buddha was a man/human being before he attained Nirbanna/Perfection.

 

There's nothing to say you need to follow Thai Buddhism (Theravada), or pay too much heed to the way it's carried out here. Buddhism is about self enquiry and insight, and there are many lineages of it - there is extraordinary wisdom in the traditions of Chinese Buddhism and Zen for instance. You'd do a lot better to base your principles more on what you can learn in books than be distracted by examples set by errant monks.

 

If you are particularly drawn to Thai Buddhism though, you won't find much better than Ajahn Chah, or Buddhadasa Bhikku.

[Ulysses G.]

On 3/24/2018 at 2:00 AM, joeyg said:

 Buddhism is actually atheism and not a religion.

 

I'm no expert, but I believe that Buddha said he was not God, but I don't think he said that there isn't one at all.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

I'm no expert, but I believe that Buddha said he was not God, but I don't think he said that there isn't one at all.

Any pre existing beliefs he had about this would have come from his early learning in India as a Brahmin prince. Western concepts of God don't really apply at all here. 

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Any pre existing beliefs he had about this would have come from his early learning in India as a Brahmin prince. Western concepts of God don't really apply at all here. 

Hindu concepts of God might.

[joeyg]

15 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I'm no expert, but I believe that Buddha said he was not God, but I don't think he said that there isn't one at all.

Yes.  The are other types of Thai Angels/Kinnaree people, half bird, half human.  there are also numerous demi-Gods and Godesses.  However none are as high as the person who has attained Nirbana/Perfection of non attachment.  I theory we can all aspire to and reach the same level of Buddha, Nirbana/Nirvanna.

[joeyg]

15 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

There's nothing to say you need to follow Thai Buddhism (Theravada), or pay too much heed to the way it's carried out here. Buddhism is about self enquiry and insight, and there are many lineages of it - there is extraordinary wisdom in the traditions of Chinese Buddhism and Zen for instance. You'd do a lot better to base your principles more on what you can learn in books than be distracted by examples set by errant monks.

 

If you are particularly drawn to Thai Buddhism though, you won't find much better than Ajahn Chah, or Buddhadasa Bhikku.

I've read his books.  They're very good.  However "a wise man can even learn from a fool." And it wasn't a monk that was smoking it was one of the top guys in the temple. Although I know At many temples many of the monks do smoke now. I don't smoke.  It's not a distraction to me it's a lesson, and illustration of the philosophy. What happens when you don't follow strictly you can see the results.

[jenny2017]

On 3/24/2018 at 4:12 PM, joeyg said:

if you're coming into the harbor you follow the marker buoys or wind up on the rocks.  You don't make your own way up to navigate.  Anyway my understanding has always been to choose a path and try to follow it, not invent one.

 I have had it with all organized religions= your words.

 

   Would you really follow Buddhism, you wouldn't have noticed that in a way that you're so upset about a guy who had a cigarette. Perhaps you should try to find your own way, you do not have to follow a religion, and you don't have to invent a new one. 

 

  It wasn't a monk, it was one of the top guys? Aren't the monks the top guys in a temple? 

I've seen too many wandering monks in Pickups and drove behind them when they're on their way home with a lot of money from believers.

Then watching the diligent monk having a cigarette and some shots of Lao Khao is not a surprise to me. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by jenny2017

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

 I have had it with all organized religions= your words.

 

   Would you really follow Buddhism, you wouldn't have noticed that in a way that you're so upset about a guy who had a cigarette. Perhaps you should try to find your own way, you do not have to follow a religion, without inventing a new one.   

I"m not upset at all.  Just shoched I've never seen it before in any religious facility.  Like I said I prefer to follow Buddhism if that's OK with you, "you do not have to follow a religion, without inventing a new one. "  What does that even mean makes zero sense.

[jenny2017]

4 minutes ago, joeyg said:

I"m not upset at all.  Just shoched I've never seen it before in any religious facility.  Like I said I prefer to follow Buddhism if that's OK with you, "you do not have to follow a religion, without inventing a new one. "  What does that even mean makes zero sense.

Sorry, I meant you do not have to follow a religion and you don't need to invent a new one.

 

   I've seen so many monks buying porn, then they got caught selling copies of them. Others who smoke and drink after they received their donations.

One made parties in his temple where teenagers could buy Jaba and other drugs and a few more.

I was born as a Roman Catholic, but I can't believe in that. When I moved to Thailand, Buddhism was really fascinating, but now I'm more an atheist.