Unmarried Father, first post, some advice please.

[happylarry]

You were asking about getting in touch with my wife Chris, so on Wednesday I sent you a personal message with my wife’s business card so you would have her contact details, but since then although you have visited the forum many times you have not bothered to look at your messages.

Anyway Chris, as they say over here mate, up to you.

 

By the way many thanks go to Mikeyidea for once again recommending my wife’s services.

 

HL

[sanemax]

On 4/18/2018 at 2:42 PM, ChrisO1988 said:

I could stop all contact but I'm afraid she'll interpret that as not wanting to see my daughter, I'm a straight up kind of kind and playing games is not my forte, I just want regular contact and to support my daughter. 

I wasnt playing "a game " either .

I meant it .

"If you want to be a single mother and (y)our kid growing up without a Papa , go ahead , when the kid contacts me in 20 years time , I shall tell him that its is YOUR fault that he grew up Fatherless" "And he will hate you for it"

   The blocked her on every level , FB, phones , everything .

A month later , she came knocking on my door , a completely changed person .

"This is your Son, he misses you "

Got full access

[offset]

You must check on wether you can get a British Passport for her they have changed the rules many times 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, offset said:

You must check on wether you can get a British Passport for her they have changed the rules many times 

As long as the OP is British Otherwise Than By Descent (and can prove it my producing his long-form birth certificate), there shouldn't be an issue with getting a British passport.  There is no requirement that he has to be married to the child's mother.

[offset]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

As long as the OP is British Otherwise Than By Descent (and can prove it my producing his long-form birth certificate), there shouldn't be an issue with getting a British passport.  There is no requirement that he has to be married to the child's mother.

When I applied for my sons passport I spoke to the advice line in the UK and was told that after a certain date the rules for unmarried parents have been changed and it is much more difficult to get a passport for my child but I was lucky he was born before that date so he got his passport I am only reporting what I was told

[MikeyIdea]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:05 PM, happylarry said:

By the way many thanks go to Mikeyidea for once again recommending my wife’s services.

We've never met but I have a better source, I hear directly from the clients :)

[brewsterbudgen]

When I applied for my sons passport I spoke to the advice line in the UK and was told that after a certain date the rules for unmarried parents have been changed and it is much more difficult to get a passport for my child but I was lucky he was born before that date so he got his passport I am only reporting what I was told

Prior to (I think) 2006 you had to be married to the child's mother, but the rules changed.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MikeyIdea]

17 hours ago, offset said:

When I applied for my sons passport I spoke to the advice line in the UK and was told that after a certain date the rules for unmarried parents have been changed and it is much more difficult to get a passport for my child but I was lucky he was born before that date so he got his passport I am only reporting what I was told

It's a bit off topic but it's still in the right forum so why not. I'm a little bit surprised that passport is discussed so much, passport and citizenship are 2 totally different processes and citizenship must be confirmed before passport can be requested. How difficult is it to get citizenship for a child when one parent is non British, born abroad, not married? Citizenship rules will change in more and more countries but I doubt that it will go as far as denying citizenship to the child because one parent is non-British and child is born abroad but sure, they make it more difficult.

 

First obstacle: I'd expect the new British rules to be: If not married must have legal evidence of legitimization of the child, that's the first rule most countries will implement if they don't already have it

 

Second obstacle that can/will be implemented: Will legitimization have to be by court order only?

Here's a true story: Sweden for instance, has had the rule that if not married, must have court order of legitimization for many years. I and the mother legitimized our daughter at the amphur where the child was born (not in court) and the Swedish Embassy refused to process citizenship application because legitimization wasn't done in court. I went up to the district attorney in the province and he refused a court case on the grounds that the child already was legitimized, nothing more Thai law can do... He also recommended to file a court case for legitimation carefully attaching the evidence of legitimization and let them throw it out of course and use that as evidence. I told the Embassy exactly that and asked if they needed me to get the petition thrown out of court too and was told - Come up to the embassy and let's see what we can do... Done in an hour. Standard process at the Swedish Embassy

 

Third obstacle: Does the Thai mother have to sign the citizenship application? I actually can't remember if that was required, I think not in the Swedish case, but it is a clear requirement for the passport of course (child trafficking). Britain currently has the rule that both parents must sign for the first passport but one legal parent (also if not British of course) can request consecutive ones. This will change in the future 

 

Forth obstacle that can/will be implemented for sure: Temporary citizenship only if by descent and must process change from temporary to permanent citizenship any time within majority plus 2-3 years and prove valid connection to the country (relative witnesses, / language proficiency etc.). Another funny story from stupid Sweden's case: I signed my daughter in as officially living in Sweden for 6 months (triggers permanent Swedish citizenship status and "by descent" removal) but we had to go back before the 6 months were complete, I signed her out first after permanent citizenship status was formalised but not in time for it to go unnoticed and I got nasty communication from the nearest school about the duty of the parent to ensure that the child is educated in a sanctioned school only... I couldn't care less about sanctioned or not as long as education is good but my daughter is now a permanent (not by descent) Swedish citizen and I can have an accident and die now knowing that she will not be denied her Swedish heritage. Her children will perhaps be "by-descent" and the story continues...

 

It's still possible to work the problem and clear it

Michael

Edited April 23, 2018 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

9 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Prior to (I think) 2006 you had to be married to the child's mother, but the rules changed.

Prove legitimacy, marriage or mother does that automatically, manual process otherwise

[brewsterbudgen]

It's a bit off topic but it's still in the right forum so why not. I'm a little bit surprised that passport is discussed so much, passport and citizenship are 2 totally different processes and citizenship must be confirmed before passport can be requested. How difficult is it to get citizenship for a child when one parent is non British, born abroad, not married? Citizenship rules will change in more and more countries but I doubt that it will go as far as denying citizenship to the child because one parent is non-British and child is born abroad but sure, they make it more difficult.
 
First obstacle: I'd expect the new British rules to be: If not married must have legal evidence of legitimization of the child, that's the first rule most countries will implement if they don't already have it
 
Second obstacle that can/will be implemented: Will legitimization have to be by court order only?
Here's a true story: Sweden for instance, has had the rule that if not married, must have court order of legitimization for many years. I and the mother legitimized our daughter at the amphur where the child was born (not in court) and the Swedish Embassy refused to process citizenship application because legitimization wasn't done in court. I went up to the district attorney in the province and he refused a court case on the grounds that the child already was legitimized, nothing more Thai law can do... He also recommended to file a court case for legitimation carefully attaching the evidence of legitimization and let them throw it out of course and use that as evidence. I told the Embassy exactly that and asked if they needed me to get the petition thrown out of court too and was told - Come up to the embassy and let's see what we can do... Done in an hour. Standard process at the Swedish Embassy
 
Third obstacle: Does the Thai mother have to sign the citizenship application? I actually can't remember if that was required, I think not in the Swedish case, but it is a clear requirement for the passport of course (child trafficking). Britain currently has the rule that both parents must sign for the first passport but one legal parent (also if not British of course) can request consecutive ones. This will change in the future 
 
Forth obstacle that can/will be implemented for sure: Temporary citizenship only if by descent and must process change from temporary to permanent citizenship any time within majority plus 2-3 years and prove valid connection to the country (relative witnesses, / language proficiency etc.). Another funny story from stupid Sweden's case: I signed my daughter in as officially living in Sweden for 6 months (triggers permanent Swedish citizenship status and "by descent" removal) but we had to go back before the 6 months were complete, I signed her out first after permanent citizenship status was formalised but not in time for it to go unnoticed and I got nasty communication from the nearest school about the duty of the parent to ensure that the child is educated in a sanctioned school only... I couldn't care less about sanctioned or not as long as education is good but my daughter is now a permanent (not by descent) Swedish citizen and I can have an accident and die now knowing that she will not be denied her Swedish heritage. Her children will perhaps be "by-descent" and the story continues... [emoji2]
 
It's still possible to work the problem and clear it
Michael

For UK passports there is no requirement to establish the child's citizenship first. If they are not entitled to British citizenship the passport will not be issued.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MikeyIdea]

23 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

For UK passports there is no requirement to establish the child's citizenship first. If they are not entitled to British citizenship the passport will not be issued.

I stand corrected, You are correct :)

 

https://www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport/first-child-passport

What documents to send with your application

You must send:

• 2 new photos of your child
• the child’s full birth or adoption certificate (the one with parent’s details on it)
• proof that your child has British nationality (for example a British registration certificate, parent’s passport details or parent’s birth certificates)
• any valid passports from a different country belonging to the child
• any court orders (for example, that describe parental responsibility or residency arrangements)

It's enough for the British father to send in evidence of his British Citizenship. 3 things here are still open though

 

1) They require "the birth certificate with parent's details on it". How does British authorities handle the case that a Thai birth certificate does not have the fathers full name so it's not valid. What do they require to supplement it?

2) Thailand does not recognize "fathership" if non-married so further confirmation should definitely be required. What?

3) Child Trafficking: Most countries in the world require both parents signature to issue a passport (at least the first time). Is that signature required?

 

On another note: It is actually easier (less hassle) to just go to the Swedish embassy and get the official forms but then bypass them and just send the complete and signed forms with translations certified by the Consular Affairs department directly to Migrationsverket (the ministry approving citizenships in Sweden) stating that the passport should be picket up at the Swedish Embassy in Bangkok, same in England?

 

Michael