Chiang Mai air polluted far above safe levels

[Jeremy50]

Burning seems to be a hobby in Thailand. Nothing else to do? Let's go out and burn some stuff. Look at that forest over there, let's go and burn it.

[rumak]

the heat being generated by this topic is bound to start some brush fires

[simoh1490]

When most people look at something in the distance such at Doi Suthep and they see that the view of it is obscured, they automatically assume that's down to pollution and at this time of the year that must mean burning - add to that the whiff of smoke and the case is proven for many people. The trouble is, the difference between fog or moisture in the air, exhaust fumes from motor vehicles, pollution from local burning and pollution from blown in burning, are all pretty much indistinguishable for the majority of people. Overlay all of that (no pun intended) with the problems of the inversion layer and it's easy to lose perspective on it all and to believe the mass hysteria that Chiang Mai Province is home to the worlds most unhealthy air, Thai bashers please form an orderly queue to the left and be ready to beat up government et al on my mark.

 

The basic premise here is that if you don't understand the problem you're unlikely to ever find the solution hence for many it's far easier just to blame inept government, because doing so is easily digestible by the masses and requires zero thought. Ah, but what about the IQ Air I hear you say. Indeed, what about it, the app.takes it's data from the PCD and where data doesn't exist for particular locations, they create data. And who wouldn't trust an air quality app. that is owned by the worlds largest air purification business in Switzerland, cough cough...it must be the pollution.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Looks like CM has indeed been getting worse the past couple days, as the rising readings show. These are legit PM2.5 readings, not made-up or misconstrued data from any private company:

 

 

http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/local/Thailand/Chiang_Mai

 

Though the latest official readings this afternoon seem a bit better. But as the PM2.5 timeline graph shows below, CM has been in the red/unhealthy rating for pretty much the entire 48 hours prior to midday today:

 

 

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangmai/city-hall/

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Dellboy218]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I seem to think that because I can see nothing but rice fields in every direction from where I live that there have been no fires here because we haven't seen any. You on the other hand can smell smoke, you should get out of town and go have a look!!!

And you seem to think thst you are the centre of the universe.  Do not be so childish, you go out and look it wont take you long.  The rice fields surrounding you are not the only ones and are not the only source of burning, people burning leaves and burning rubbishand you, once again, are mustaken.   I am not in town.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Dellboy218

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Dellboy218 said:

And you seem to think thst you are the centre if the universe.  Dobt be so childish, you gout and look it wont take you long.  The rice folields surrounding you are nit the only ones and tou, once again, are mustaken.   I am not in town.

I just came back from Samoeng.....not one fire to be seen and no evidence of recent burning either.

[johng]

voice their anger and take the issue to the ballot box the powers that be will do nothing

There's (partly) the problem,there is no ballot box !

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Looks like CM has indeed been getting worse the past couple days, as the rising readings show. These are legit PM2.5 readings, not made-up or misconstrued data from any private company:

 

 

http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/local/Thailand/Chiang_Mai

I can well believe that the pollution levels are increasing, the burning ban has ended, the ban that many said was totally ineffective, that was the point of all of this exchange!

 

One question, however, what monitoring data does Berkley Earth use, almost certainly all this data comes from the PCD does it not, it's hard to imagine that private enterprise has established their own separate monitoring network.

[Dellboy218]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

I just came back from Samoeng.....not one fire to be seen and no evidence of recent burning either.

Terrific...well done...a few days ago that was one of the most polluted places in the north.   All you can see from the road is a 100m strip.  I wonder what your agenda iscas you seem so vocal that there is absolutely no burning.  30 years ago you would have been right.

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, Dellboy218 said:

And you seem to think thst you are the centre if the universe.  Dobt be so childish, you gout and look it wont take you long.  The rice folields surrounding you are nit the only ones and tou, once again, are mustaken.   I am not in town.

...and if you're not in town and you are in a rural area, get out and take some pictures of this burning and post them.

[simoh1490]

Just now, Dellboy218 said:

Terrific...well done...a few days ago that was one of the most polluted places in the north.   All you can see from the road is a 100m strip.  I wonder what your agenda iscas you seem so vocal that there is absolutely no burning.  30 years ago you would have been right.

30 years ago the problem would have been equally as bad, it certainly was 15 years ago.

 

So all you can see is a 100 metre strip and that was caused by what.......local burning nearby that you could observe, blown in pollution, the effects of the inversion layer, what?

 

My agenda: I've been in these discussions for 15 years and I've heard the same thing repeated every year, people simply observe and don't think. 10 years ago the idea of cross-border pollution was laughed at, today it's an accepted fact; today, most people haven't got a clue what the inversion layer is and certainly no idea what role it plays in the problem; ten years ago there was no burning ban, the idea of a ban was an impossible thought, today it's in place and it works. My agenda is to correct that imbalance rather than merely sit on a bar stool and complain about the ineptness of local and central government by failing to fix the problem.

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Remember the days when Chiang Mai was the "Rose of the north" and Phuket was the "Pearl of the south" how very sad things have turned out for this once a lovely country 

Edited April 23, 2018 by HiSoLowSoNoSo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

My agenda: I've been in these discussions for 15 years and I've heard the same thing repeated every year, people simply observe and don't think. 10 years ago the idea of cross-border pollution was laughed at, today it's an accepted fact;
 

 

AFAIK, there's no established way to geo trace PM2.5 levels.

 

But if you look at the regional PM2.5 air pollution level mapping, it doesn't suggest that all of CM's problems are blowing in from elsewhere. There are local hot spots inside Thailand surrounded by lower readings in surrounding Thai areas.

 

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

AFAIK, there's no established way to geo trace PM2.5 levels.

 

But if you look at the regional PM2.5 air pollution level mapping, it doesn't suggest that all of CM's problems are blowing in from elsewhere. There are local hot spots inside Thailand surrounded by lower readings in surrounding Thai areas.

 

There's no dispute that burning takes place in Thailand hence I would expect what you have written, hot spots with lower readings in surrounding areas.

 

PM2.5 is far lighter and travels much further than PM10 which is comparatively quite dense and heavy thus it falls to earth quite quickly. For that reason I think the PM10 reading is probably a better indicator of local burning intensity than is PM2.5 which can be distorted by wind currents - NASA firemap activity is also a good indicator of the same.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

One question, however, what monitoring data does Berkley Earth use, almost certainly all this data comes from the PCD does it not, it's hard to imagine that private enterprise has established their own separate monitoring network.

 

AFAIK, the Berkeley lab uses official source readings for their air pollution data. But I can't tell you which particular source/location they're using for their Chiang Mai reporting data.

 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

AFAIK, the Berkeley lab uses official source readings for their air pollution data. But I can't tell you which particular source/location they're using for their Chiang Mai reporting data.

 

Chiang Mai PCD (Pollution Control Department) had five stations, four fixed and one mobile, whether or not they have increased that number recently I'm unsure. It looks as though Berkley and IQAir (and others) are all getting their data from the PCD and then massaging it and extrapolating values for areas where there are no hard readings, personally I'll stick with OCD values since they are the source. 

[captainsteve]

To SIMOH 1490

 

So if all of us are wrong , and  it’s really no problem , why was Pim threatened and forced to cancel a peaceful rally to raise awareness ?

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, captainsteve said:

To SIMOH 1490

 

So if all of us are wrong , and  it’s really no problem , why was Pim threatened and forced to cancel a peaceful rally to raise awareness ?

 

 

 

All of you are wrong about what and who is all of you?

[simoh1490]

You refer to Pim being threatened and the planned rally cancelled, the reason for that cancellation had precious little to do with air pollution in Chiang Mai but instead was about the risk the rally might be highjacked for other purposes, as Pim stated.http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/plea-find-solutions-annual-air-pollution-rally-tha-pae-gate-friday/

[captainsteve]

Yes sure. All true and she wrote that without any threats. ?

 

Freedom of of speech is going down the pan in Thailand . 

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, captainsteve said:

Yes sure. All true and she wrote that without any threats. ?

 

Freedom of of speech is going down the pan in Thailand . 

 

 

 

 

You haven't qualified what it is that I supposedly think you are all wrong about!

[captainsteve]

And please tell me why she was forced to remove a 12 yr old girls painting of the pollution from the magazine . 

 

O silly me . It was going to be hijacked for other purposes ?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, captainsteve said:

And please tell me why she was forced to remove a 12 yr old girls painting of the pollution from the magazine . 

 

O silly me . It was going to be hijacked for other purposes ?

I have no idea what you're talking about, the subject was whether the ban on burning was effective or not, I maintain it was, very much so. 

[captainsteve]

I think the fact that  she was forced to remove the girls painting , by threats yet again , shows the ban is far from working. 

 

I agree  that locals did not burn so much during the ‘ Ban ‘ but the big corporations certainly did. And locals burnt more before and after the ban. 

 

And to to try to blame faulty recording machines and the weather, is exactly what the authorities say ?????

 

 

[captainsteve]

I just want to say the air in Chiang Mai is always perfect and that I have not been threatened to say this. 

 

Goodbye Thaivisa 

[simoh1490]

"I agree  that locals did not burn so much during the ‘ Ban ‘ but the big corporations certainly did. And locals burnt more before and after the ban". 

 

Since it's the locals who own the land around me we can agree they didn't burn much during the ban. But I'm unclear how you can arrive at a conclusion that big corporations did the opposite, do you have proof, stats, evidence etc?

 

Let's not forget also that last year was one of the wetter rainy seasons on record, the overgrowth and amount of land needing to be cleared was excessive as a result.

 

 

 

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

How many friends do you have that they CM leave in droves!

Thousands. I am the most respected and most loved old has been Farlang in Chiang Mai, and don`t you forget it.

[canuckamuck]

The haze has kept the heat down, enjoy it while you can.

[Khun Jean]

Use the mulch to make fertilizer and methane gas.

Money can be made from it.

And when money can be made it will be done.

Who will start?

 

[simoh1490]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

AFAIK, there's no established way to geo trace PM2.5 levels.

 

But if you look at the regional PM2.5 air pollution level mapping, it doesn't suggest that all of CM's problems are blowing in from elsewhere. There are local hot spots inside Thailand surrounded by lower readings in surrounding Thai areas.

 

A thread here that talks about CMU having its own monitoring station network: