Guest houses must now get a hotel license--any info?

[JAZZDOG]

53 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

from a News Website, right now (about the situation in the south were they found an Island with 90% of 'illegal' hotels

 

‘From our in depth investigation on *** we have found that most of hotel operators will be unable to submit for accommodation licenses because they don’t have land possession documents. Some hotel rooms and building sizes are not up to standard when we check against the standards demanded by the Hotel Act.”

 

“Relevant officials might have to review some of the ministerial regulations again in order to solve this local issue. We hope that a way can be found so these illegal hotels will be able to comply and become legal by law. They will not be able to continue operation if they can’t comply.”

 

In a few words, again we start something without thinking at the consequences...

Quite to the contrary, these 3rd world governments start with the goal to extract as much money as possible ie; consequences. From there they formulated laws to maximize that goal. They realize that 90% of hotels can't possible comply to the laws as written. At the end of the day they will extract money in one way or another from as many as the can and then move on to another crisis. Everybody wearing helmets is completely adverse to their desired goal. Likewise shutting down 90% of the hotels in the country would be insanity in their eyes. Only Donald Trump could come up with a plan like that.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

Some had a hotel license but were hit retroactively by the building license. So could have been completely legal and then not because of a change of law. It is a time for investors in Thailand to be very worried, the law can be changed at any time!

Imagine starting a game of chess with the rules agreed upon and then just as you are set to win the rules are suddenly changed by your opponent. hardly fair play and how can you ever win if your opponent has complete control over the rules ?

 

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Not if you can pay under the table to get your Queen back.

As mentioned before, the people being shutdown are not stupid.  They knew the rules, including the ones about who gets envelopes and how much.  The rules have changed; businesses are closing, people are losing jobs and families are losing livelihoods.

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

 

As mentioned before, the people being shutdown are not stupid.  They knew the rules, including the ones about who gets envelopes and how much.  The rules have changed; businesses are closing, people are losing jobs and families are losing livelihoods.

IMHO you people are over the top freaking out. Common sense says if the RTP were in the midst of shutting down 90% of the hotel industry that it would be the BIGGEST story in the country. Tourist would be cancelling trips. Yet there has been very little coverage except for the folks on TVF. Do the math according to your own doomsday prediction, come up with a number of people effected including business owners, land owners plus all others if 7 million tourist must be crammed into 10% of the existing short term housing. Now come back and tell me if the government actually attempting to do such a thing has any basis or positive objective in reality?

The scattered news articles are consistent with the officials stirring up fear so as to generate fees to make everything go away. 

[johnoko]

14 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

IMHO you people are over the top freaking out. Common sense says if the RTP were in the midst of shutting down 90% of the hotel industry that it would be the BIGGEST story in the country. Tourist would be cancelling trips. Yet there has been very little coverage except for the folks on TVF. Do the math according to your own doomsday prediction, come up with a number of people effected including business owners, land owners plus all others if 7 million tourist must be crammed into 10% of the existing short term housing. Now come back and tell me if the government actually attempting to do such a thing has any basis or positive objective in reality?

The scattered news articles are consistent with the officials stirring up fear so as to generate fees to make everything go away. 

Every major TV channel has been reporting on it but only in the local language that's why it might have passed you by. Channel 3 , Channel 5, Thai Pbs, Amerin and W-TV so the news has been covered by most of the national main channels. And on the 26th of this month there will be large panel discussion on the subject in a special program on Thai PBS

Edited June 13, 2018 by johnoko

[JAZZDOG]

7 minutes ago, johnoko said:

Every major TV channel has been reporting on it but only in the local language that's why it might have passed you by. Channel 3 , Channel 5, Thai Pbs, Amerin and W-TV so the news has been covered by most of the national main channels. And on the 26th of this month there will be large panel discussion on the subject in a special program on Thai PBS

Great, discussion will lead to generation of more fees. It may even be conservative to say 90% of hotels fail to comply and most likely the majority of those would find it impossible to find a path to compliance as the law as written was a requirement to receive a permit to build. After the fact compliance is not an option. Shutting down 90% of the hotel sector is not an option. Only option remaining is requiring fire extinguishers, signs and a few other items and of course THB$ 20-50K for certification to be hung by the front door. Think for a second how much money the government will lose from all sources if they go this route? The political capital lost? It would be political suicide with absolutely no up side.

And what would they gain?

[johnoko]

2 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Great, discussion will lead to generation of more fees. It may even be conservative to say 90% of hotels fail to comply and most likely the majority of those would find it impossible to find a path to compliance as the law as written was a requirement to receive a permit to build. After the fact compliance is not an option. Shutting down 90% of the hotel sector is not an option. Only option remaining is requiring fire extinguishers, signs and a few other items and of course THB$ 20-50K for certification to be hung by the front door. Think for a second how much money the government will lose from all sources if they go this route? The political capital lost? It would be political suicide with absolutely no up side.

And what would they gain?

The issue is not in regards to the safety requirements most guesthouses are already up to standards in that respect or are more than willing to implement those. 

 

The problem is that the law is supposed to come into affect this Aug. but places  have been raided and closed.

Even once that already can show documentation that they are in the process of getting their property up to the required standards.

 

and one of the new rules which is nearly impossible to adhere to is the required green space of 30% of the property. And the unfair thing is that places which already have their hotel license, the big hotels, don't have to meet this difficult standard 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by johnoko

[JAZZDOG]

41 minutes ago, johnoko said:

The issue is not in regards to the safety requirements most guesthouses are already up to standards in that respect or are more than willing to implement those. 

 

The problem is that the law is supposed to come into affect this Aug. but places  have been raided and closed.

Even once that already can show documentation that they are in the process of getting their property up to the required standards.

 

and one of the new rules which is nearly impossible to adhere to is the required green space of 30% of the property. And the unfair thing is that places which already have their hotel license, the big hotels, don't have to meet this difficult standard 

 

In that case what do you think the thought process is behind this. I see no upside for the government other than generating more fees. Shutting down businesses and effectively destroying the tax base does do allot of good.

[JAZZDOG]

4 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

In that case what do you think the thought process is behind this. I see no upside for the government other than generating more fees. Shutting down businesses and effectively destroying the tax base does do allot of good.

Do you truly believe this government will close down 90% of the countries ST housing?

[JAZZDOG]

More breaking news about hotels being shutdown !! Not exactly breaking news?

 

 

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

In that case what do you think the thought process is behind this. I see no upside for the government other than generating more fees. Shutting down businesses and effectively destroying the tax base does do allot of good.

What was the upside in enforcing midnight bar closing?  Yet Zoe, which use to be the mainstay of tourism nightlife in Chiang Mai, is still closing at midnight.

 

There is more to this than just an attempt to collect more bribe money.

[JAZZDOG]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

What was the upside in enforcing midnight bar closing?  Yet Zoe, which use to be the mainstay of tourism nightlife in Chiang Mai, is still closing at midnight.

 

There is more to this than just an attempt to collect more bribe money.

I don't think that is apples to apples. I can see popular support for bar closings not so much for gutting an industry vital to the economy. Seems pretty knee-jerk to me if not for greed.

[cmsally]

While it seems a lot of guesthouses/hostels/hotels are being raided/checked/documented etc in many tourist destinations; did not see one closure in Bangkok.

Has anybody heard of guesthouse closures/raids in Bangkok ?? 30% green space in Bangkok ?? ?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

21 hours ago, MekkOne said:

So, if you have a small GH or Hostel (I MEAN LESS THAN 4 ROOM AND NO MORE THAN 20 GUESTS) you don't need an hotel license, you have to register your business at the local office (amphoe) saying to them that you accepting guest. This is the law and this is how some of this places where registered and licensed (they were not illegal). 

 

And those are still not illegal, and are not being closed down.  BTW there is a little more to it than just notifying the district office, it does involve inspection and some rules to follow.  Nothing too difficult though; some rules are a little silly but not particularly difficult to follow.

 

The trouble is with places that are far bigger than 4 rooms.

 

17 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

IMHO you people are over the top freaking out. Common sense says if the RTP were in the midst of shutting down 90% of the hotel industry that it would be the BIGGEST story in the country.

 

Yes.  Also, there would be hordes of homeless tourists roaming the streets, looking for a place to stay.  That doesn't seem to be happening.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I don't think that is apples to apples. I can see popular support for bar closings not so much for gutting an industry vital to the economy. Seems pretty knee-jerk to me if not for greed.

Where was the popular support for bar closings, especially in popular tourist bar areas such as Zoe?  Do you think the bars are not vital to the tourism or expat industries?  Check out the posts of outrage and despair on TV when there is a no-alcohol day.

 

Military governments tend to be puritanical control freaks.  I think that is the most likely explanation here.

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Where was the popular support for bar closings, especially in popular tourist bar areas such as Zoe?  Do you think the bars are not vital to the tourism or expat industries?  Check out the posts of outrage and despair on TV when there is a no-alcohol day.

 

Military governments tend to be puritanical control freaks.  I think that is the most likely explanation here.

How would that explain them shooting themselves in the foot over hotels

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

And those are still not illegal, and are not being closed down.  BTW there is a little more to it than just notifying the district office, it does involve inspection and some rules to follow.  Nothing too difficult though; some rules are a little silly but not particularly difficult to follow.

 

The trouble is with places that are far bigger than 4 rooms.

 

 

Yes.  Also, there would be hordes of homeless tourists roaming the streets, looking for a place to stay.  That doesn't seem to be happening.

Or the tourists would go somewhere else.  How are tourist numbers now?

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

How would that explain them shooting themselves in the foot over hotels

The military isn't supported by small-time guesthouse owners in Chiang Mai, it is supported by big-time hotel, resort, and brewery owners in Bangkok.  Governments in Thailand, and military governments in particular, don't really care if their policies hurt small business.

 

How does the fact that guesthouses have been closed for weeks support your claim that this is all a ploy to collect more bribes?  Businesses can't pay bribes if they can't make money.

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

The military isn't supported by small-time guesthouse owners in Chiang Mai, it is supported by big-time hotel, resort, and brewery owners in Bangkok.  Governments in Thailand, and military governments in particular, don't really care if their policies hurt small business.

 

How does the fact that guesthouses have been closed for weeks support your claim that this is all a ploy to collect more bribes?  Businesses can't pay bribes if they can't make money.

I haven't read any proof of GH being closed for weeks. Please furnish with numbers effected, location. I have read of a few question, inspected but not closed. Besides the law as written does not become effective till august.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I haven't read any proof of GH being closed for weeks. Please furnish with numbers effected, location. I have read of a few question, inspected but not closed. Besides the law as written does not become effective till august.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/hundreds-small-medium-hotels-closed-police-chiang-mai-crackdown/

[JAZZDOG]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/hundreds-small-medium-hotels-closed-police-chiang-mai-crackdown/

Most of those have reopened. How about news of Pattaya.

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Most of those have reopened. How about news of Pattaya.

I've never been to Pattaya and am in no hurry to go.  What is your evidence that most of the Chiang Mai guesthouses that were forced to close have now re-opened?

[JAZZDOG]

Most were never closed and most all are now taking reservations. Give a name of one closed 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Most were never closed and most all are now taking reservations. Give a name of one closed 

CS Guesthouse.

 

[JAZZDOG]

21 minutes ago, heybruce said:

CS Guesthouse.

 

 CSHouse can be booked on booking.com for 1400baht/night with breakfast. Nice place rated 8.4 

[cmsally]

On Rachapakinai heading west starting at Anoma, I counted 5 places closed.

[JAZZDOG]

8 minutes ago, cmsally said:

On Rachapakinai heading west starting at Anoma, I counted 5 places closed.

No way to determine without names of hotels but many take time off during low season and appear closed. 

[cmsally]

I know the landlord of one and apparently that one is closed because no license.

The Anoma mentioned above was also closed.

[Vacuum]

On 6/14/2018 at 8:57 AM, heybruce said:

the tourists would go somewhere else

I for one, would applaud this.

[Briggsy]

The accommodation sector of the black economy has mushroomed in the last few years with the advent of AirBnB, Facebook ads, Chinese advertising to the Chinese and so on. No income tax, no company tax, no VAT, no hotel licence fee, etc.

 

The Thai govt. depts., govt. agencies such as the police, local govt. entities are always looking for sectors of the economy that are not "taxed" either officially or through bribes and extortion. These civil servants, police, local govt. officers constantly need to bolster income streams so their positions yield sufficient income each year to support their family, to bung the required amount upstairs to their boss, to pay off their initial investment buying in and to provide enough to buy their next promotion.

 

Put these two together and you get a massive crackdown on the guesthouse industry. They won't destroy it but they certainly will have their 10%.

[MekkOne]

2 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

 CSHouse can be booked on booking.com for 1400baht/night with breakfast. Nice place rated 8.4 

why they should bother to close the booking on booking.com while booking.com don't guarantee you the booking? in this period of the year booking.com can guarantee at least 60% of non-show