Glyphosat

[cooked]

I just need a yes or no really, anecdotal evidence welcome.

I sprayed a very small piece of pasture one morning (literally 1 M2) and the guy that uses my land for his cows sometimes saw this. He later staked the cows out. In the evening one of the calves was not walking and has been off its food. Obviously I feel bad about this as I am receiving evil glances. 

Is this something that can happen? 1 M2? As far as I am aware the toxicity of Glphosat isn't immediately apparent, even in a calf. I have tried googling and haven't found an answer.

Studies have shown symptoms at 300 mg/kg bw/day, which is considered normal in some countries apparently. I was using 2% concentration. 

[drtreelove]

Doubtful that the 2% herbicide application was responsible for the calf's disorder.  (BTW you are using a misspelled term for the active ingredient, which may distort your search results.) 

 

I am not an expert on this, but in a past life I was a project manager in a vegetation management program for a tree service contractor to a major public gas and electric utility company, and I had to learn the basics of the herbicide products that were specified by the utiliity company PCA (licensed pest control advisor), who was an expert and who walked me through each recommendation, the whys and wherefore of each application.   

 

There are a multitude of formulations for herbicide products with the active ingredient of glyphosate. The glyphosate itself would not likely have acute toxicity for mammals, but it's the unlisted ingredients that can be hazardous materials.  Especially if you are using Chinese or Indian chemical pesticide imports where contaminants and unlisted adjuvants are common and may not be disclosed.  

 

For example, Monsanto glyphosate products have different formulations; we used Monsanto "RoundUp Custom" or Dow "Rodeo" for applications in close proximity to water or field crops because it has no surfactants, it's straight glyphosate which is not volatile. And for cut stump treatment it works.  But where foliar applications were required, especially for shrubs or trees with waxy cuticles, a formulation with potent penetrating surfactants were required.  But those surfactants can become volatilized (gaseous form) in temperatures over 80 degrees F (26 C), (which is like every day in Buriram isn't it?) And the gaseous surfactants can drift a surprising distance and contaminate water and field crops or landscapes. And it is these adjuvants that can be toxic, and without disclosure on the product label. 

 

So the point is, when it comes to hard chemistry or even organic program bio-pesticides, we should really know what we are working with, what exactly is in the formulation, and what the potential risks are and what personal protection and environmental concerns are wise to consider.  It's tempting to buy the cheaper generics, but do you know where they come from and what's in them?  

 

For one square meter, why not get out the hoe and grub it out. It's safer, at least if you don't hoe your toe ?

[cooked]

Agreed of course.

I had a little left in the tank so as I was looking to transplant some stuff I sinned. The soil is very heavy and at the moment very wet, so I didn't feel like digging it over. I'll wait until the end of the rice cycle before I spray around there again. (When the cattle go back into the fields).

[kickstart]

According to Wiki  Glyphosate is a type of organophosphorus compound, but as the good doctor said if it is produced locally you do not know what else is mixed with it.

Dairy farmers spray they cattle with a organophosphorus compound to kill licks, I have heard of cattle reacting to the spray .but I would say that would be more farmers using the wrong amount chemical to water, normale not a problem.

A look at a veterinary dictionary it says                                                                                                                                                           Herbicides are used routinely to control noxious plants. Most of these chemicals, particularly the more recently developed synthetic organic herbicides, are quite selective for specific plants and have low toxicity for mammals; other, less-selective compounds (eg, sodium arsenite, arsenic trioxide, sodium chlorate, ammonium sulfamate, borax, and many others) were formerly used on a large scale and are more toxic to animals.                                                                                                                                    If glyphosate is included in the above I am not certain, also a young calf is not that much of a grazer, if it does graize  it will choose young more succulent grass, if you sprayed that area it must be an  old grass area, probably not that  palatable to young calves ,but I would say a young calf would be less resistant than an older animals to  reacting to herbicide  poisoning, if  taken in small amounts, but I would not hold my breath on that and would have to check with Google .

Glyphosate can be used in fish ponds without any problems, a small amount on a grass field should not be a problem.

For an antidote, Atropine  Sulfate can be used, but it should be injected soon as symptoms are showing.

[canuckamuck]

Your being scammed, just resist, it will go away.

[cooked]

16 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Your being scammed, just resist, it will go away.

 

16 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Your being scammed, just resist, it will go away.

No I'm not.  I did expect a comment like this, and it's no surprise that it comes from one of the world class curmudgeons on Thaivisa. If I ignore you, will you go away? 

[canuckamuck]

15 minutes ago, cooked said:

 

No I'm not.  I did expect a comment like this, and it's no surprise that it comes from one of the world class curmudgeons on Thaivisa. If I ignore you, will you go away? 

My advice was in your best interest, and I don't understand the negativity. I like you.

What I meant was that if you only sprayed one square meter of grass, there is no way you have affected the health of one of the calves unless that calf went right over there and licked the glyphosate off of the leaves. And even then, I doubt any reaction would be observable, let alone a severe a reaction as what you mentioned. if the farmer is trying to pin it on you, I would tell him he's nuts.

Was the calf anywhere near the area you sprayed in the next hour?

[HooHaa]

i put myself through university doing jobs in silvicultural work, which included mixing and spraying of vision, a glyphosate "conifer release agent".

i can assure you that if i survived the higher concentration over 5 years, the calf would too.

hell i even sired children.

 

[VocalNeal]

36 minutes ago, cooked said:

 

No I'm not.  I did expect a comment like this, and it's no surprise that it comes from one of the world class curmudgeons on Thaivisa. If I ignore you, will you go away? 

 

If you expected a comment then why did you post?   Anyone living in Asia for any length of time always has their scam radar turned on.  

 

Let's hope the calf was not female otherwise there will be a claim for lost generations to come.

[cooked]

No there won't. I got scammed once in Thailand, shortly after my arrival 6 years ago. Thanks for telling me to be aware of scam potential. I would never have thought of that, goodness.

 

[farmerjo]

Did you mix a small amount prior to see if settled out in the water. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by farmerjo

[canuckamuck]

I have done some thinking and first I will apologize for offending Cooked. I perhaps could have said it different, but all I was saying that is impossible for the spraying to have been the reasons for the calve's lethargy. With 1 square meter of spraying you would likely used about a cup of diluted Glyphosate mix (at the most). The amount of glyphosate in that would be about 5 ml or a teaspoon. quite a lot of that would have went right to the ground most of the rest would be stuck to the plants and would quickly evaporate or drop to the ground as well.

It is possible I suppose that the calf did eat some of the weeds after the spraying. We don't have much information. But the amount the calf likely ingested would have been microscopic.

That being said, and having raised plenty of cattle in my day. Calves get sick, and often you have no idea why. But I do not recall ever hearing of a cow getting sick from glyphosate

However, if the calf dies, you are probably going to have to pay for it. Because there is no way they will believe it wasn't your fault.

[impulse]

In my never ending quest for wingnut conspiracy stuff, I submit the following, with no comment on my part:

 

https://youtu.be/2clNRvpphhs?t=83

 

https://www.levinlaw.com/monsanto-roundup-lawsuit-cancer-link

 

Ambulance chasers vs Monsanto.  I'm not sure who to root for...

 

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming it made your critter sick.  Just that I'd seriously reconsider using it...

Edited June 4, 2018 by impulse

[kickstart]

19 hours ago, HooHaa said:

i put myself through university doing jobs in silvicultural work, which included mixing and spraying of vision, a glyphosate "conifer release agent".

i can assure you that if i survived the higher concentration over 5 years, the calf would too.

hell i even sired children.

 

I hope that your university taught you about safety when using chemical sprays, ie using face masks and gloves.not spraying in strong winds etc, etc. if you followed these guidelines you should last at least  5 years, probably a lot more.

Now, put some glyphosate on a leaf of grass wait a few hours and chew on it .......................................

They are no comparison.

As I said the calf would not have the resistance of an older animal, being a Thai beef calf probably  not the fittest of animals, a bit on the thin side, could be a  coincidence something else is wrong with the calf,  but still can not see glyphosate being a problem 

[thoongfoned]

around us people that cut and carry grass  for their cattle will not go near land that has been sprayed with weed killer... over the years i have know people that have died applying weed killer on the sugar cane....

wife keeps pigs and we have always been told no form of weed killer ever, when a new farm build gets rejected in the local government/village meetings, one (of many) of the main arguments by the neighbouring land owners is that if you build we can not use weeed killer.....

[HooHaa]

2 hours ago, kickstart said:

I hope that your university taught you about safety when using chemical sprays, ie using face masks and gloves.not spraying in strong winds etc, etc. if you followed these guidelines you should last at least  5 years, probably a lot more.

Now, put some glyphosate on a leaf of grass wait a few hours and chew on it .......................................

They are no comparison.

As I said the calf would not have the resistance of an older animal, being a Thai beef calf probably  not the fittest of animals, a bit on the thin side, could be a  coincidence something else is wrong with the calf,  but still can not see glyphosate being a problem 

Of course i received proper training and was required to complete 2 seperate certiifications, or tickets, one for application and one for mixing.

 

As for eating a sprayed leaf of grass, especially after a few hours, i would not be concerned. Id rather not, but would  fear no harm for a one off limited exposure

 

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html

 

This speaks of the ld50 of glyphosate typical in vision, roundup, etc. 

 

This second link, albeit from monsanto an necessarily biased, still presents verifiable ld50s for both glyphosate and a number of other substances.

 

https://glyphosateinfo.monsanto.com/how-toxic-is-glyphosate/

 

For those unaware, ld50 is the median or lethal dose in 50 percent of the population tested.

 

The calf would need to be drinking straight glyphosate to show nearly immediate symptons, likely far more than the amount the op even sprayed.

 

It is not nice stuff, but hardly likely to have killed or even affected the proverbial fatted calf.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by HooHaa

[Arie2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_soybean