Why should i invest in Thailand?

[bouph12]

27 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've held CG-LTF for some time, even without making use of the tax advantage it's still returned 15% over the year: http://siamchart.com/fund-compare/LTF_EQ

I couldn't make a direct comparison between  the FIF I hold and the ETFs as it hasn't been running long enough. The fund you've kindly provided a link for has been running long enough though, and suggests that your fund has averaged 7.25% pa over the last 3 years - no major difference in performance to the passive trackers.

 

The fact sheet on the company's own website for your fund is a perfect example of the opacity that concerns me:

 

Management Fee ≤1.6050% p.a. 

Trustee Fee ≤0.1605% p.a.

Registrar Fee ≤0.1284% p.a.

Other Fees ≤3.4561% p.a.

 

That adds up to 6.35% pa they could be taking from you. I'm sure it isn't that much, but do you actually know how much you're paying them to get you roughly the same return as  the foreign company charging 0.45%? 

 

 

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

You're becoming a drama queen, calm down!

 

Many guesthouses and hotels are being challenged to get licenses and to conform to standards, that's the long and the short of it. This is notepersecution of foreigners, this is not about rule of law, this is about the licensing and approval for hotels and guest houses which have proliferated in recent times, in an uncontrolled manner. The social side of all of that is difficult I understand but that's not the core issue being debated here, the core issue is investments in Thailand.

 

Again, you have not acquired the knowledge to understand so I will make it simple for you. And what  could possibly be more relevant to investment than the government threatening to arbitrarily putting tens of thousands people out of businesses.

 

- The Hotel Act requires hotels to submit before construction plans and permits.

- After the fact it is impossible in 99% of the cases to get a hotel permit after the fact (a perfect storm for shake downs).

- The 2016 amended law treats the Hilton the same as the one star Do Drip Inn along with everything in between.

- Those charged and arrested are told the only way to stay open is to get a permit which is impossible to comply with in an existing building.

- I can only assume the only reason there are only 300 legally licensed hotels in the country is because complying was so insane and expensive people paid to get their "Licenses" . Sound familiar

[Senseo]

23 minutes ago, micmichd said:

What are these "generations" you mean - Thai or Farangs? 

A Thai family in Thailand wouldn't be a problem - as Thais they would not be restricted to the 49 pct limit, and they would be your heirs. But if you want a secure nest for your Farang kids in Thailand - this would probably be considered an invasion. 

I guess that if i marry a Thai and we have kids, the kids get Thai citizenship. The 49% limit doesn't matter if all goes well. The problem is what happens if we divorce or my kids are unworthy of receiving anything i've worked for. I do not know why but the word Farang always sounded to me as an insult. Is it just me or?

 

I had to laugh at your choice of words.

 

Quote

But if you want a secure nest for your Farang kids in Thailand - this would probably be considered an invasion.

?

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

What's 30 days got to do with it? That's mainly air bnb. 

Are you serious?  I'd suggest a tad more research?

[Senseo]

6 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Again, you have not acquired the knowledge to understand so I will make it simple for you. And what  could possibly be more relevant to investment than the government threatening to arbitrarily putting tens of thousands people out of businesses.

 

- The Hotel Act requires hotels to submit before construction plans and permits.

- After the fact it is impossible in 99% of the cases to get a hotel permit after the fact (a perfect storm for shake downs).

- The 2016 amended law treats the Hilton the same as the one star Do Drip Inn along with everything in between.

- Those charged and arrested are told the only way to stay open is to get a permit which is impossible to comply with in an existing building.

- I can only assume the only reason there are only 300 legally licensed hotels in the country is because complying was so insane and expensive people paid to get their "Licenses" . Sound familiar

Are they really going through with it? Cause it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. It's just going to cause a lot of misery which will benefit no one.

[InMyShadow]

So let me get this straight. Let's choose the last 50 years. They have never cracked down on this law of rental tax. 

But maybe next week they will do it? 

Worst case If they did ever pass a law for farang then there would be a tax... So be it. I've had 12 years of no tax so far and no way for them to prove it either. 

 

No tax makes it a landlords dream! 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, bouph12 said:

I couldn't make a direct comparison between  the FIF I hold and the ETFs as it hasn't been running long enough. The fund you've kindly provided a link for has been running long enough though, and suggests that your fund has averaged 7.25% pa over the last 3 years - no major difference in performance to the passive trackers.

 

The fact sheet on the company's own website for your fund is a perfect example of the opacity that concerns me:

 

Management Fee ≤1.6050% p.a. 

Trustee Fee ≤0.1605% p.a.

Registrar Fee ≤0.1284% p.a.

Other Fees ≤3.4561% p.a.

 

That adds up to 6.35% pa they could be taking from you. I'm sure it isn't that much, but do you actually know how much you're paying them to get you roughly the same return as  the foreign company charging 0.45%? 

 

 

It's been a while now so I can't be precise but as I recall the total charge is 2.2% although there is an exit fee of about 1%. I hold investment funds in the UK and I pay up to 1.7% there for a well-managed fund which typically returns around 12%, Lindsell Train Global, Baillie Gifford Int. and Fidelity Asia are three that spring to mind. I don't mind paying the charges as long as the returns are solid, which they are. I specifically invested in LTF's onshore because I wanted an onshore investment in THB rather than a hedged return on a foreign exchange. I don't buy trackers because there's only downside protection, there's no upside, all my funds beat the indices by a substantial margin which is something a tracker can never do - plus I like to have an on the ball fund manager who can swap out of a diversified holding at short notice and compensate for losses in other areas, again, a tracker can't do that.

[InMyShadow]

30 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Are you serious?  I'd suggest a tad more research?

I have people with air bnb now. The Point which your missing is non air bnb landlords would not give you less than thirty days even if you begged.

 

Go for a walk to a RE agent 

Tell them you want that 10k condo in the window but 30 days only 

 

Report back here 

Edited June 18, 2018 by InMyShadow

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Again, you have not acquired the knowledge to understand so I will make it simple for you. And what  could possibly be more relevant to investment than the government threatening to arbitrarily putting tens of thousands people out of businesses.

 

- The Hotel Act requires hotels to submit before construction plans and permits.

- After the fact it is impossible in 99% of the cases to get a hotel permit after the fact (a perfect storm for shake downs).

- The 2016 amended law treats the Hilton the same as the one star Do Drip Inn along with everything in between.

- Those charged and arrested are told the only way to stay open is to get a permit which is impossible to comply with in an existing building.

- I can only assume the only reason there are only 300 legally licensed hotels in the country is because complying was so insane and expensive people paid to get their "Licenses" . Sound familiar

Give it a rest, your arguments are getting stale, you're seeing conspiracy theories everywhere and ghosts under the bed! Yes, let's close down all but 300 of the countries hotels and overnight we can kill the entire tourist industry and wipe 22% off of GDP, that sounds like a good plan........are you for real!

 

This is getting boring and going nowhere, I'm going to watch some paint dry. Bye.

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Give it a rest, your arguments are getting stale, you're seeing conspiracy theories everywhere and ghosts under the bed! Yes, let's close down all but 300 of the countries hotels and overnight we can kill the entire tourist industry and wipe 22% off of GDP, that sounds like a good plan........are you for real!

 

This is getting boring and going nowhere, I'm going to watch some paint dry. Bye.

I thought exactly the same thing until I did my homework and actually communicated one on one with many affected all over the country. Lots of people still think the earth is flat and man never landed on the moon. I personally believe it is a massive shake down prompted like you say "fear mongering" by the government. You must have had more to do than watch paint dry since you're all over the other thread about hotels, LOL!!

[InMyShadow]

12 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

I thought exactly the same thing until I did my homework and actually communicated one on one with many affected all over the country. Lots of people still think the earth is flat and man never landed on the moon. I personally believe it is a massive shake down prompted like you say "fear mongering" by the government. You must have had more to do than watch paint dry since you're all over the other thread about hotels, LOL!!

"I actually did my homework and communicated one on one with those affected all over the country" 

 

????????

 

I nearly sprayed my tablet with beer 

I've heard of stretching the truth but.. Comedy gold! 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

"I actually did my homework and communicated one on one with those affected all over the country" 

 

????????

 

I nearly sprayed my tablet with beer 

I've heard of stretching the truth but.. Comedy gold! 

You couldn't make it up!

[BobBKK]

30 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

I have people with air bnb now. The Point which your missing is non air bnb landlords would not give you less than thirty days even if you begged.

 

Go for a walk to a RE agent 

Tell them you want that 10k condo in the window but 30 days only 

 

Report back here 

That's right I own multiple condos and I only take 12 months. What's your point?  30+ days is the LAW so abide by it.

[JAZZDOG]

3 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

"I actually did my homework and communicated one on one with those affected all over the country" 

 

????????

 

I nearly sprayed my tablet with beer 

I've heard of stretching the truth but.. Comedy gold! 

"with many" you simpleton, maybe to drunk to read?

[Mattd]

Seems this thread has morphed somewhat!

Regarding the hotel act and 30 days minimum etc. this act in this form has been around since at least 2004 and is nothing new, a hotel is deemed as the offering of accommodation to the public for a duration below a month in exchange for payment, either with the capacity of more than four rooms in total or more than twenty guests, the legal standpoint on condos include all of the units in the building, whether they are short term rented or not.

This is simply getting more press and government action due to the likes of Air BNB etc. It has zero to do with punishing foreigners, who actually are technically not allowed to operate a hotel under the foreign business act 1993. (unless under BOI or the American Treaty)

The amendments in 2016 being discussed, these were actually designed to make it easy to retrospectively register a building as a hotel and was a ministerial amendment to the building control act 1979, said buildings were given 5 years to comply.

There is some very sound reasoning behind licensing and regulating hotels, I certainly would not want to stay in a building that has little or no effective means of escape, fire protection etc. etc. if it was operating as a hotel.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Two things about this:

 

Firstly, I don't believe it, there's nothing anywhere in the media on this, it's a fantasy thought until somebody posts link to a reliable source that they are being pursued, I'm betting the farm they aren't.

 

Second, you come across as though Hard Rock Pattaya is the pinnacle of business in Thailand, if HR falls we all must evacuate....get a grip man, it's a hotel, restaurant and bar that is subject to the same rules that all others are.

HAHa, so if you did not see it in the media then it’s not true?

 

would you like to join me in court every 6 days? You will meet another 50 hotel owners signing in.

 

50 is from 1 week, there are more 50’s every week. And to give you a bigger surprise in my 50 group , I’m the only foreigner, all the rest are Thai owners.

 

Now to your comments about HardRock,Hard Rock is an international  chain, 4-5 star hotel. Them being raided, shows no one is safe 

 

At no point I said anyone should run or evacuate , however one should keep in mind, law can change at any time and you could be left with nothing amd or jailed for something as little as wrong license 

 

[InMyShadow]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

That's right I own multiple condos and I only take 12 months. What's your point?  30+ days is the LAW so abide by it.

 that law was finally acted on due to the rise of air bnb. And to protect hotels 

 

Yearly landlords were never affected... We'll because they are long term. Get it now? 

 

 

[BestB]

58 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Again, you have not acquired the knowledge to understand so I will make it simple for you. And what  could possibly be more relevant to investment than the government threatening to arbitrarily putting tens of thousands people out of businesses.

 

- The Hotel Act requires hotels to submit before construction plans and permits.

- After the fact it is impossible in 99% of the cases to get a hotel permit after the fact (a perfect storm for shake downs).

- The 2016 amended law treats the Hilton the same as the one star Do Drip Inn along with everything in between.

- Those charged and arrested are told the only way to stay open is to get a permit which is impossible to comply with in an existing building.

- I can only assume the only reason there are only 300 legally licensed hotels in the country is because complying was so insane and expensive people paid to get their "Licenses" . Sound familiar

Spot on!

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

HAHa, so if you did not see it in the media then it’s not true?

 

would you like to join me in court every 6 days? You will meet another 50 hotel owners signing in.

 

50 is from 1 week, there are more 50’s every week. And to give you a bigger surprise in my 50 group , I’m the only foreigner, all the rest are Thai owners.

 

Now to your comments about HardRock,Hard Rock is an international  chain, 4-5 star hotel. Them being raided, shows no one is safe 

 

At no point I said anyone should run or evacuate , however one should keep in mind, law can change at any time and you could be left with nothing amd or jailed for something as little as wrong license 

 

Once again, I do not believe what you wrote about the Hard Rock Care in Pattaya.

[BestB]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

Once again, I do not believe what you wrote about the Hard Rock Care in Pattaya.

Once again, what you believe or not is entirely your choice, that does not change current facts on the ground 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, Senseo said:

Are they really going through with it? Cause it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. It's just going to cause a lot of misery which will benefit no one.

Yup, very little sense or logic to it but big and small getting raided all over the country .

Edited June 18, 2018 by BestB
Spelling

[InMyShadow]

10 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

"with many" you simpleton, maybe to drunk to read?

Many could be a thousand LMAO 

You do realise if your conducting this amazing survey "all over the country" 

That your gonna need a work permit 

 

Keep up the good work and keep us posted ?

[BestB]

1 hour ago, InMyShadow said:

So let me get this straight. Let's choose the last 50 years. They have never cracked down on this law of rental tax. 

But maybe next week they will do it? 

Worst case If they did ever pass a law for farang then there would be a tax... So be it. I've had 12 years of no tax so far and no way for them to prove it either. 

 

No tax makes it a landlords dream! 

All swell but what about if they decide to back date all

the tax? What would you say then? 

 

Not scaremongering but a genuine possibility under current leadership . For example with hotels , they have an option of fining x amount of baht for every day it did not have license ie, 5 years, 10 years or whatever number authority comes up with 

[InMyShadow]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

All swell but what about if they decide to back date all

the tax? What would you say then? 

 

Not scaremongering but a genuine possibility under current leadership . For example with hotels , they have an option of fining x amount of baht for every day it did not have license ie, 5 years, 10 years or whatever number authority comes up with 

Well for starters there would be millions of condo owners both farang and thai, Indians, Chinese you name it that would dump their condos on the market to pay billions of baht in back taxes. 

 

Result would be the biggest collapse in history dragging all of Asia with it along with the killing off the Golden goose that those very people bring into the country 

 

And why would the elite who have the most to lose in eye watering portfolios allow that? Even entertaining your fantasy where would they find the man Power to audit millions of condos lol

 

Bigger chance of thailand winning the world cup in 2020 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by InMyShadow

[BestB]

Just now, InMyShadow said:

Well for starters there would be millions of condo owners both farang and thai, Indians, Chinese you name it that would dump their condos on the market to pay billions of baht in back taxes. 

 

Result would be the biggest collapse in history dragging all of Asia with it along with the killing off the Golden goose that those very people bring into the country 

 

And why would the elite who have the most to lose in eye watering portfolios allow that? Even entertaining your fantasy where would they find the man Power to audit millions of condos lol

 

Bigger chance of thailand winning the world cup next year 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with everything you said, HOWEVER look at what authorities are doing now. Sorry to bring in hotels again into this, but they are raiding and forcing thousands to close down or risk being jailed.

 

You see the trend there, lately nothing to do with logic or consequences but whatever they come up, they implement it without any thought of consequences of their actions.

 

Something that looked and sounded insane, all over sudden became a reality and no one knows what to do.

 

Keep in mind, condo's are only worth a few million, hotels are worth 10 times the amount.

 

You also seem to forget, Thailand does not work same way your home country does when it comes to auditing.

 

You may well get a tax bill for the entire time you owned it and then its up to you to defend it. In the end, you will not be dumping, but loosing it and may still owe money.

 

Again, at this very moment, you may call this wild speculations, but thats what many were saying about hotels few years ago and here we are today.

[InMyShadow]

9 minutes ago, BestB said:

I totally agree with everything you said, HOWEVER look at what authorities are doing now. Sorry to bring in hotels again into this, but they are raiding and forcing thousands to close down or risk being jailed.

 

You see the trend there, lately nothing to do with logic or consequences but whatever they come up, they implement it without any thought of consequences of their actions.

 

Something that looked and sounded insane, all over sudden became a reality and no one knows what to do.

 

Keep in mind, condo's are only worth a few million, hotels are worth 10 times the amount.

 

You also seem to forget, Thailand does not work same way your home country does when it comes to auditing.

 

You may well get a tax bill for the entire time you owned it and then its up to you to defend it. In the end, you will not be dumping, but loosing it and may still owe money.

 

Again, at this very moment, you may call this wild speculations, but thats what many were saying about hotels few years ago and here we are today.

Don't think you read my post completely. Such a move would destroy the RE market dragging the elite with it. 

 

It would be catastrophic beyond words with a knock on on effect bringing thailand to its knees. 

 

Millions of condos confiscated.. Well there goes your I'm not scare mongering theory.

 

No way to audit and besides the Thais would be the biggest offenders hahaha

 

Sure they may bring in tax one day and good for them it would be in line to first world. However back taxes? Ain't gonna happen

 

Thailand is one of the best places to be a landlord 100% cash in the claw 

Compared to the raping in western countries ? and I love the poor renters for providing that wealth creation 

 

 

 

 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Don't think you read my post completely. Such a move would destroy the RE market dragging the elite with it. 

 

It would be catastrophic beyond words with a knock on on effect bringing thailand to its knees. 

 

Millions of condos confiscated.. Well there goes your I'm not scare mongering theory.

 

No way to audit and besides the Thais would be the biggest offenders hahaha

 

Sure they may bring in tax one day and good for them it would be in line to first world. However back taxes? Ain't gonna happen

 

Thailand is one of the best places to be a landlord 100% cash in the claw 

Compared to the raping in western countries ? and I love the poor renters for providing that wealth creation 

 

 

 

 

I did read your post and as i explained current move with hotels if has not yet, it will inflict just as much pain on elites as possible back dating condo taxes.

 

If anything elites would benefit from such move as it will enable them to pick up condo's for next to nothing.

 

Thailand may well be at the moment the best place, but may not be should powers decide to change that and there is nothing to stop them and plenty of evidence to prove they are capable of doing something as crazy as that.

 

 

[InMyShadow]

31 minutes ago, BestB said:

I did read your post and as i explained current move with hotels if has not yet, it will inflict just as much pain on elites as possible back dating condo taxes.

 

If anything elites would benefit from such move as it will enable them to pick up condo's for next to nothing.

 

Thailand may well be at the moment the best place, but may not be should powers decide to change that and there is nothing to stop them and plenty of evidence to prove they are capable of doing something as crazy as that.

 

 

 

Calm down your getting all worked up about millions of condos being confiscated 

 

You clearly have no idea about the knock on effect. 

 

Do your self a favor. Google 2008 sub prime crises.

 

Banks in Thailand would be destroyed as their mortgage loans become worthless due to the crash (worth next to nothing your words) and the stock market would be kaput and the country would go into a prolonged recession.. Seriously that never even occurred to you? 

 

Your sweet naive post of the elite picking up cheap condos hahaha your so far out of your depth you have no idea 

 

I need to debate with some one that understands the dynamics but you don't so wasting my time 

 

Will get back to you when the men in black arrive to steal my condo ??

 

Bye and thanks for renting we are relying on you! 

Edited June 18, 2018 by InMyShadow

[JAZZDOG]

21 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Thailand is one of the best places to be a landlord

Please tell me how with rents as low as they are here. Tell me about the details of a purchase where you got a return greater than 4% renting out a condo. Here in Pattaya there are at least 10K vacant and they are building more. I live in a condo that's on the market for 8M and I rent for 25K/month. Everyone here wants to buy new so there is no appreciation. Sounds to me you got your money trapped making very little return should your place go vacant two months a year which would be optimistic. I make two and half times that 25K in rent I pay leaving my money where it's at and have instant liquidity and can move around as I wish. I imagine your "poor renters" are doing the same. Only way to make a modest income is buying multiple 1M units and being a slum lord. Again clue me in on exactly how you make these fabulous returns

[BestB]

21 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

 

Calm down your getting all worked up about millions of condos being confiscated 

 

You clearly have no idea about the knock on effect. 

 

Do your self a favor. Google 2008 sub prime crises.

 

Banks in Thailand would be destroyed as their mortgage loans become worthless due to the crash (worth next to nothing your words) and the stock market would be kaput and the country would go into a prolonged recession.. Seriously that never even occurred to you? 

 

Your sweet naive post of the elite picking up cheap condos hahaha your so far out of your depth you have no idea 

 

I need to debate with some one that understands the dynamics but you don't so wasting my time 

 

Will get back to you when the men in black arrive to steal my condo ??

 

Bye and thanks for renting we are relying on you! 

 

Not sure why you assumed i was worked up

 

Clearly you refusing to accept the reality.

 

So lets try another angle .

 

You are no doubt aware rental income from condo's is taxable in Thailand right? It is not enforced or monitored but it does exist.

 

So tell me what or who is there to stop authorities from enforcing it?

 

Elites have a team of lawyers and accountants who understand the system inside out and can transfer ownership to a poor cook or a driver should the need arise and what are you going to do?

 

But you right, i do not understand the dynamics as well as you, after all why would any government try to get tax which its owed

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by BestB
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