robblok Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, greenchair said: The professional divers and rescue workers with all their equipment and oxygen tanks and tag teaming, have not been able to make pattaya beach in 5 days. How do you think 11 children and a coach with a flashlight can make that? I hope I'm wrong . I really do. But I have prepared myself. It's not looking good. Sorry but your post is a bit ignorant, the children and coach made it walking and climbing.. now its flooded. Do you have any idea how slow progress goes through a flooded murky water ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habanero Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, robblok said: Come on to Americans navy seals are super heroes they will according to them be undoubtedly better then the Brits even though the Brits are specialized cave divers. I would say the Brits in this case are far more expert as cave diving is not a thing the seals train for. (not as much as these Brit experts anyway) Actually, some of the best cave diving is in the U.S. Florida leads the way with cave diving. It is a very popular activity with U.S. divers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, ZeVonderBearz said: No. If you saw some people from the emergency services that were on their way to a well published rescue mission would you a) stop them and ask for a picture so you can put it on Facebook? or b) wish them good luck and don't disturb them. I'm in favour of b. It's shameless promotion from Thai airways plain and simple. Without the news coverage and pictures on Facebook those experts would not even be here. If there was news coverage in the beginning, they might have been here sooner. I shared it on fb and asked everyone to share to try to get international interest. It was a couple of days in before I even saw it on tv and other papers only said a little. People just don't understand how important media and journalists are to get the information out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shackleton Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 It's good that the Thais have called in those with professional cave diving experience no matter where they are from Its about Team work and co ordination in getting a positive result as quickly as possible in finding the missing kids 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, kingkenny said: I guess that depends on how narrow the tunnel is he it moving through, if it is very narrow the water would be getting pushed forward. Can you think of any other reason why that bit of air at the top is beneficial? Breathing ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongjaw Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 18 hours ago, chickenslegs said: Would be nice to have some info from The Nation about who they are and what is their expertise. Why not try a quick google search. I’m sure you’ll find as I did that they are highly experienced cave divers and have surveyed this cave before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 18 hours ago, chickenslegs said: Would be nice to have some info from The Nation about who they are and what is their expertise. Use Twitter. The Derbyshire Cave Rescue Organisation are helpinghttps://twitter.com/Derbyshire_CROhttps://www.ryt9.com/es/prg/213820 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Great news! But who's finally commanding all these people from different parts of the world? Too many cooks do not necessarily make the best food, though. Navy Seals got lost in Pattaya? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, sanemax said: Breathing ? And sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, robblok said: Sorry but your post is a bit ignorant, the children and coach made it walking and climbing.. now its flooded. Do you have any idea how slow progress goes through a flooded murky water ? The could only have walked 4 hours before the first alarm went off. How far could they have gotten. They would have had to stop to sleep. The rescue started the next morning. And another day for experts to come in and ramp it up. Assuming the rain started on the first day which is why they were trapped. They had only 4 hours to make the several kilometres journey, as the caves were filling with water around them. Miracles happen all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, greenchair said: The professional divers and rescue workers with all their equipment and oxygen tanks and tag teaming, have not been able to make pattaya beach in 5 days. How do you think 11 children and a coach with a flashlight can make that? I hope I'm wrong . I really do. But I have prepared myself. It's not looking good. The Children were there when it was dry and not flooded . The Children have previously got to there . The flooding is stopping the rescuers from getting there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, greenchair said: The could only have walked 4 hours before the first alarm went off. How far could they have gotten. They would have had to stop to sleep. The rescue started the next morning. And another day for experts to come in and ramp it up. Assuming the rain started on the first day which is why they were trapped. They had only 4 hours to make the several kilometres journey, as the caves were filling with water around them. Miracles happen all the time. Yes they had 4 hours.. so they could have gotten quite far, the same distance bridged while a cave is flooded is going to take so much more time. Its hard to imagine how much more because you probably have no experience with cave diving and caves. They move real slow and here we got zero visibility and there are limits to how long you can stay underwater. Each team has to put in ropes to guide other teams. Progress will be real real slow. So its not so strange that they did not reach them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, sanemax said: The Children were there when it was dry and not flooded . The Children have previously got to there . The flooding is stopping the rescuers from getting there The flooding started on the day they went into the cave. That's why they were trapped! !. The drainage didn't start until 2 days later. So unless they were already near pattaya beach (which is about a 5 kilometres walk ) they would have similar conditions as the workers in trying to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post killala Posted June 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2018 Some very ingnorant people on here. 3 chaps possibly willing to risk life and limb to search in God awful conditions for these young lads and clowns on here asking questions as to how and why and one very stupid individual asking what equipment did they bring? These lads from Britain do this job all over the world, one would guess they would know what they’re doing. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 minute ago, greenchair said: The flooding started on the day they went into the cave. That's why they were trapped! !. The drainage didn't start until 2 days later. So unless they were already near pattaya beach (which is about a 5 kilometres walk ) they would have similar conditions as the workers in trying to get there. They may have gotton to PB , tried to get back out and they couldnt because it was flooded 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, robblok said: Yes they had 4 hours.. so they could have gotten quite far, the same distance bridged while a cave is flooded is going to take so much more time. Its hard to imagine how much more because you probably have no experience with cave diving and caves. They move real slow and here we got zero visibility and there are limits to how long you can stay underwater. Each team has to put in ropes to guide other teams. Progress will be real real slow. So its not so strange that they did not reach them yet. I understand why the divers are slow and thanks for the extra info. Because of course I really have no idea. I'm just wondering how 11 kids could walk 5 kilometres in those conditions. The flooding started on the day they went in. 5 kilometres is a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Seems they have another British caving expert who lives in N Thailand and knows this cave system very well (from news reports). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, greenchair said: I understand why the divers are slow and thanks for the extra info. Because of course I really have no idea. I'm just wondering how 11 kids could walk 5 kilometres in those conditions. The flooding started on the day they went in. 5 kilometres is a long way to go. Stop all these inane questions . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, sanemax said: They may have gotton to PB , tried to get back out and they couldnt because it was flooded It takes an hour and a half to walk 5 kilometres. Longer if there are rough conditions. So 2 hours or more for 11 kids. That went in on the afternoon. I don't think the coach would have taken them that far knowing that it is late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post robblok Posted June 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, greenchair said: I understand why the divers are slow and thanks for the extra info. Because of course I really have no idea. I'm just wondering how 11 kids could walk 5 kilometres in those conditions. The flooding started on the day they went in. 5 kilometres is a long way to go. Ok now I understand, i think that when the kids went it it was not flooded.. they would not have gone on. They went uphill so it flooded behind them without them knowing it. I think your perception of how hard it is to go through a cave when its dry is a bit off. Yes its a lot harder then normal walking but kids are quite strong and 5 km is not that far. Normal walking speed would give you 12 km in 2 hours, now much of it is just walking some climbing too so make it 50% harder and you still get 5km. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, greenchair said: It takes an hour and a half to walk 5 kilometres. Longer if there are rough conditions. So 2 hours or more for 11 kids. That went in on the afternoon. I don't think the coach would have taken them that far knowing that it is late. I think your in real bad shape if it takes you an hour and a half to walk 5 kilometers normal walking speed is around 5-6 km an hour. Just google it. Your two hours for 5km might be accurate. I don't know this cave it varies. Edited June 28, 2018 by robblok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, robblok said: Ok now I understand, i think that when the kids went it it was not flooded.. they would not have gone on. They went uphill so it flooded behind them without them knowing it. I think your perception of how hard it is to go through a cave when its dry is a bit off. Yes its a lot harder then normal walking but kids are quite strong and 5 km is not that far. Normal walking speed would give you 12 km in 2 hours, now much of it is just walking some climbing too so make it 50% harder and you still get 5km. Oh, thanks for that. But wouldn't they be walking down hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, greenchair said: Yes, I said that. Those divers have been searching non stop for 5 days. The group can't have gone that far in a few hours. I personally have lost hope. For once I would love to be wrong. Oh, don't worry! You have been wrong many times! For example, when you stated, that the best we could hope for, is recovering the dead bodies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, greenchair said: Oh, thanks for that. But wouldn't they be walking down hill. No if you look at the maps and think logically it would be up hill. I am almost 100% positive not taking a dig at you here but logic and how i read the map both say it should be uphill. I get the confusion because going in a cave you think you would go down like in a mine shaft but that is not the case in this cave. Water moves from up to down (even in Thailand?) So lower portions flood before higher up portions.That is why they cant reach them. The kids could stay safe by moving up higher and higher (I am not sure of the actual cave so there might be limitations) Just study the maps that are there and check where the main entrance is and where Pattaya beach is. (are maps in the other topic) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toofarnorth Posted June 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, cmsally said: Seems they have another British caving expert who lives in N Thailand and knows this cave system very well (from news reports). I live 30 mins away from this area and in Huai Khrai which is a town close by I often meet up for a coffee with a chap called V.... He was telling me a couple of weeks ago about these caves and how he wants to ,one day to get right to the end , he knows these caves very well and I wonder if he has had any input. BUT , I am starting to get annoyed now , all these experts getting in the way of each other , all this bickering on here about who are the best , how many teams is it now ? All with their different expert gear on , ok I am a Brit . read about these 3 that have come over , they will find these lads if anyone can , oh earlier on pages 4-7 I read experts now should come from Japan and maybe a few Swiss should be thrown in , are the pretties from Lotus there yet with their bags full of goodies like we saw a few years ago in some floods. There must be a 100 chaps around the cave entrance that could be sent home , but it seems to of become a photo op. It rained all night here and I was awake a long time in my comfortable bed listening to it and thinking of these youngsters trying to sleep on rocks in the dark with by now no lights not knowing if it was 2am or 2 pm. There rant over ! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, toofarnorth said: I live 30 mins away from this area and in Huai Khrai which is a town close by I often meet up for a coffee with a chap called V.... He was telling me a couple of weeks ago about these caves and how he wants to ,one day to get right to the end , he knows these caves very well and I wonder if he has had any input. BUT , I am starting to get annoyed now , all these experts getting in the way of each other , all this bickering on here about who are the best , how many teams is it now ? All with their different expert gear on , ok I am a Brit . read about these 3 that have come over , they will find these lads if anyone can , oh earlier on pages 4-7 I read experts now should come from Japan and maybe a few Swiss should be thrown in , are the pretties from Lotus there yet with their bags full of goodies like we saw a few years ago in some floods. There must be a 100 chaps around the cave entrance that could be sent home , but it seems to of become a photo op. It rained all night here and I was awake a long time in my comfortable bed listening to it and thinking of these youngsters trying to sleep on rocks in the dark with by now no lights not knowing if it was 2am or 2 pm. There rant over ! Yes if his name begins with a V.. , it should be the same guy ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Italian guy Posted June 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2018 19 hours ago, chickenslegs said: Would be nice to have some info from The Nation about who they are and what is their expertise. Do you think they called butchers, blacksmiths and garbage collectors to do the job? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, TKDfella said: Sorry, Ladies & gentlemen but can anyone help me here. I seem unable to find the original report (possible problem on my browser) about the missing boys so perhaps someone here can supply me with same. I'd just like to know why a local football team went to the cave. Like to know if locals know if they went into the cave with a guide, and whether it's known if they took any food with them. Appreciate if someone could direct me. Thanks in advance. I am not familiar with the area so really can't comment. Apparently the coach and the boys go there often. This time they were going to do some extra time so they took some food with them. It probably would be a few snacks. Their bikes and bags were left outside so they weren't expecting to be gone long. Probably not much food or water at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingstonkid Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I would think that while these people are experts in rescue I would wonder why they have not brought people that are trained in mining collapses to do this. While I have nothing against SEALS AND THESE GUYS. If it was my ass down there i would want miners trying to get me out. In the amount of time, they have been doing this they could have a relatively good mine shaft going down to the Main cave and be working from 2 different directions. either Welsh miners or the boys from West Virginia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, robblok said: No if you look at the maps and think logically it would be up hill. I am almost 100% positive not taking a dig at you here but logic and how i read the map both say it should be uphill. I get the confusion because going in a cave you think you would go down like in a mine shaft but that is not the case in this cave. Water moves from up to down (even in Thailand?) So lower portions flood before higher up portions.That is why they cant reach them. The kids could stay safe by moving up higher and higher (I am not sure of the actual cave so there might be limitations) Just study the maps that are there and check where the main entrance is and where Pattaya beach is. (are maps in the other topic) Well thanks for the information. You have given me new hope. I wish they could come home to their mommies and daddies, that's all. They must be very cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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