Conflict On The South

[DeDanan]

Hi all,

Can someone tell me the basics of what the conflict in the south of Thailand is about.

Regards,

DeDanan

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hi all,

Can someone tell me the basics of what the conflict in the south of Thailand is about.

Regards,

DeDanan

Muslims versus anyone else. With terror and prejudice.

[Up2U]

Hi all,

Can someone tell me the basics of what the conflict in the south of Thailand is about.

Regards,

DeDanan

Until the late 1700's the Southern provinces were a separate kingdom.

This was absorbed into the changed geography of the area when the French and British stepped up their colonising of the area and when the British pulled out of Malaya (now Malaysia and Singapore) they signed a concordat with the Thais recognising their rule over this area as a part of Thailand.

There's a lot more to it than that - Thai central government not giving much support to the area until the last five years or so, poor living conditions and lack of resources anyway, so on and so forth. But the average Southerner is still better off than the average Northerner or North-Easterner. So part of it is malcontents stirring up trouble.

I could write a couple of books about this, but wouldn't even start to describe the problems, let alone give practical solutions.

[Yohan]

Some dates and facts:

(out of my own observation, and some Malay books, so if you find mistakes or you have questions, let me know)

Pattani was existing independent of the Thai since the 13th century.

The first clear confirmed existence of Pattani is known 1516 by the Portugese.

1584 attacked by the Thais, but several wars were lost by the Thais, remains independent....

1786 attacked by Prince Serasi, son of Rama I, of the present Chakri dynasty, in unbelieveable cruel way, all Pattani was destroyed, many women raped, children slained, and over 4000 Pattani young men were forced to walk to Bangkok in chains, and became slaves to dig the klongs around the King's palace in Bangkok. All culture goods were looted, the big canons of SeriPattani and SeriNegara were taken to Bangkok and never returned (still in the Defense Ministry). Everything related to Malay culture was destroyed.....

(Slavery was abolished 1905 in Thailand)

Malay names were changed , (Jalur to Yala for example), - however wild resistance continued, especially 1791, 1809 up to 1902, and 1906, where Pattani was formally annexed by Thailand

Borderline:

1909, 10thMarch, borders were corrected (Bangkok Treaty) between the British colonies (Malaya) and Thailand....

1941 during the WWII, Pattani and the other Muslim provinces in Thailand joined the British troops, fighting against the Japanese, declaring independence in the WWII chaos and got promises from the British government, to be considered after the end of the war.

Borderline:

1945 and 1946, Britain and Thailand corrected the borders again, with Kedah, Kelantan, Terengganu on the Malay side, however with Pattani on the Thai side.

This was never accepted by the Thai Muslim, and resistance, sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, continues up to now....

Out of this history, the year 1786 as the great massaker of the Rama I prince always in mind, many Thai Muslim nowadays are considering the King of Thailand as enemy of Islam and hate the Buddhist religion as an untrue faith, responsible for all torture and slavery. They do not consider themselves to be a part of Thailand and hate everything related to the ethnic Thais, and feeling deep relationship with the Malay people of the other side of the border....They feel disappointed in many ways and are ready for violence....

Pattani and Narathiwat have about 82 percent native Jawi (Malay) speakers, who are Moslems and ethnic Malay, Yala about 69 percent.

All together about 1.6 million people in this area, and out of them about 1.3 million

are Thai Muslim.

[Yohan]

Hi all,

Can someone tell me the basics of what the conflict in the south of Thailand is about.

Regards,

DeDanan

Until the late 1700's the Southern provinces were a separate kingdom.

This was absorbed into the changed geography of the area when the French and British stepped up their colonising of the area and when the British pulled out of Malaya (now Malaysia and Singapore) they signed a concordat with the Thais recognising their rule over this area as a part of Thailand.

There's a lot more to it than that - Thai central government not giving much support to the area until the last five years or so, poor living conditions and lack of resources anyway, so on and so forth. But the average Southerner is still better off than the average Northerner or North-Easterner. So part of it is malcontents stirring up trouble.

I could write a couple of books about this, but wouldn't even start to describe the problems, let alone give practical solutions.

Nice to see that somebody is with this Thaivisa-Forum, who understands the problems with the Southern provinces.

I made several postings about the Thai Muslims - it was a big subject on this forum some weeks ago.

Solution: I do not see any solution at the moment.....

It will continue sometimes with more, and sometimes with less violence....

Johann

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Some dates and facts:

(out of my own observation, and some Malay books, so if you find mistakes or you have questions, let me know)

Pattani was existing independent of the Thai since the 13th century.

The first clear confirmed existence of Pattani is known 1516 by the Portugese.

1584 attacked by the Thais, but several wars were lost by the Thais, remains independent....

1786 attacked by Prince Serasi, son of Rama I, of the present Chakri dynasty, in unbelieveable cruel way, all Pattani was destroyed, many women raped, children slained, and over 4000 Pattani young men were forced to walk to Bangkok in chains, and became slaves to dig the klongs around the King's palace in Bangkok. All culture goods were looted, the big canons of SeriPattani and SeriNegara were taken to Bangkok and never returned (still in the Defense Ministry). Everything related to Malay culture was destroyed.....

(Slavery was abolished 1905 in Thailand)

Malay names were changed , (Jalur to Yala for example), - however wild resistance continued, especially 1791, 1809 up to 1902, and 1906, where Pattani was formally annexed by Thailand

Borderline:

1909, 10thMarch, borders were corrected (Bangkok Treaty) between the British colonies (Malaya) and Thailand....

1941 during the WWII, Pattani and the other Muslim provinces in Thailand joined the British troops, fighting against the Japanese, declaring independence in the WWII chaos and got promises from the British government, to be considered after the end of the war.

Borderline:

1945 and 1946, Britain and Thailand corrected the borders again, with Kedah, Kelantan, Terengganu on the Malay side, however with Pattani on the Thai side.

This was never accepted by the Thai Muslim, and resistance, sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, continues up to now....

Out of this history, the year 1786 as the great massaker of the Rama I prince always in mind, many Thai Muslim nowadays are considering the King of Thailand as enemy of Islam and hate the Buddhist religion as an untrue faith, responsible for all torture and slavery. They do not consider themselves to be a part of Thailand and hate everything related to the ethnic Thais, and feeling deep relationship with the Malay people of the other side of the border....They feel disappointed in many ways and are ready for violence....

Pattani and Narathiwat have about 82 percent native Jawi (Malay) speakers, who are Moslems and ethnic Malay, Yala about 69 percent.

All together about 1.6 million people in this area, and out of them about 1.3 million

are Thai Muslim.

A most erudite contribution Yohan. This topic is a favourite of yours I think.

[Yohan]

A most erudite contribution Yohan. This topic is a favourite of yours I think.

I was entering Thailand the first time 1972, coming from Malaysia, which was my first Asian country. I am very familiar with Kedah and Kelantan in Malaysia and Pattani and Narathiwat up to Songkhla in Thailand.

For about 30 years I spend most of my vacation in South Thailand and Northern Malaysia.....

I see many facts different from you, with the request for understandings.

Sad to see, that most people in Thailand are not aware of the history of South Thailand.

Sad to see, that there is no solution to end violence.....

Johann

[sonthaya]

Dr. P just about right the muslims against the rest of us, after 30 years in muslims countries I have learned to live with that attitude, they just hate us all.