Applying for a Non-B visa with the new school. A question.

[Caracena]

Your replies will be greatly appreciated.

My husband has a Non-B visa from his previous workplace, which is not cancelled even though he doesn't work there anymore.His work permit is still valid. (All other family members hold Non-O visas). Now he is planning to apply documents for a new Non-B visa with the documents from a new workplace (school) in Laos. The new school tells him that he can't come out from Thailand with his old Non-B visa and just get a new Non-B with documents from a new school. They tell him that he has to come out and first get the tourist visa and then change it to Non-B visa already here in Thailand. Is it true?

[ubonjoe]

Does he have a 90 day entry from a non-b visa from an embassy or consulate or a extension of stay he obtained at immigration.

If an extension of stay is not longer valid since he is not longer working. If you have a an extension based upon his extension for being a member of his family it is also invalid.

There is no requirement that he apply for his new non-b visa at immigration instead of getting it at an embassy. In some cases applying for a new non-b at immigration would be easier but he could be fined for a an overstay since his extension was not canceled.

 

[allane]

I have never heard of this procedure. I think that the new school should prepare the necessary documents for the Non -B Visa, which he should then take to Lao with him.   If there is any reason why the Thai Embassy (Vientienne) or Consulate (Savannakhet) will not issue the Non-B, they will tell him that when he is there. They will surely issue him a Tourist Visa, if he needs it to return to Thailand. (He might be able to return  Visa Exempt, if he is unable to get the Non-B Visa.)

Edited July 16, 2018 by allane
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[Caracena]

Ubonjoe, we have all our visas properly extended and we regularly do 90-day reports. We have an agreement with my husband's old school, they don't cancel his work permit until it will expire.

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no requirement that he apply for his new non-b visa at immigration instead of getting it at an embassy. In some cases applying for a new non-b at immigration would be easier but he could be fined for a an overstay since his extension was not canceled.

 

If that is so, why do you think the new school tells there is no way to get a Non-B without first getting a tourist one? Is it the school staff's lack of knowledge? Or some misunderstanding? Maybe there are some new laws regarding this matter?

[allane]

Is the new job in the same province as the  old one ? If yes, and with co-operation from both the old and new schools, it may be possible to make the transition at the local immigration office. I did that once. My old school held my Work Permit open until the new school had all of the paperwork ready. I went to the Immigration office at 9 a.m., met with the Personnel Officer of my old school and did what was necessary, then I was joined at 10 a.m. by her counterpart from the new school and continued the process. All was finished in about half a day.

This might be what the new school is trying to tell your husband.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Caracena said:

If that is so, why do you think the new school tells there is no way to get a Non-B without first getting a tourist one? Is it the school staff's lack of knowledge? Or some misunderstanding? Maybe there are some new laws regarding this matter?

Perhaps the school suggesting that he apply for a new extension instead of a visa, With a termination letter from his old school to cancel his current extension he could apply for a new extension on the same day. The new school would have to apply for his work permit and get a work permit application approval letter also.

If that was done you and the rest of the family would also have to apply for new extensions since your existing ones will be invalid on the date his extension is canceled.

[Caracena]

30 minutes ago, allane said:

Is the new job in the same province as the  old one ? If yes, and with co-operation from both the old and new schools, it may be possible to make the transition at the local immigration office. I did that once. My old school held my Work Permit open until the new school had all of the paperwork ready. I went to the Immigration office at 9 a.m., met with the Personnel Officer of my old school and did what was necessary, then I was joined at 10 a.m. by her counterpart from the new school and continued the process. All was finished in about half a day.

This might be what the new school is trying to tell your husband.

No, the new school is in another province, but they are close to each other.

May I ask what exactly happened in the case you are describing? You say that "the new school had all of the paperwork ready". What have they done - gave you a new Non-B visa extension? You were supposed to receive a new work permit from a new school, right ?That's what we are being told - that all the old documents, that are still valid (our visa, work permit) have to be issued (applied for) again because now my husband has a new employer..

[allane]

Yes, the new school had all of the paperwork ready to apply for a new Non-B Extension for me, and I had it by about 11 a.m. Then, to the extent that I can recall (from 2004), we went to the Labour Dept. office and got my new Work Permit. It is possible that the new school had done advance work on the W. P.; I don't know.

You need everyone involved to know what they are doing, have everything ready on time, and be ready to move when you cue them. That is why I asked about the geography. Involving 2 provinces can complicate matters, especially if they are far apart. 

I can't comment on the spousal/dependent part of this, except to say that your husband is the keystone.  As long as he does everything correctly, the rest of you should be able to ride on his coattails.

Edited July 16, 2018 by allane
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[Caracena]

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Perhaps the school suggesting that he apply for a new extension instead of a visa, With a termination letter from his old school to cancel his current extension he could apply for a new extension on the same day.

I never heard of "termination letter". What would be the point of getting a new extension instead of a visa? And how that could be done? Looks like I'm missing some piece of information here...What we are told is that because we have a new employer(new school) we have to go through the whole process again. We have to prepare documents for a new work permit, get a new Non-B visa. The new school can't extend our current visa because it's based on the work permit issued through different employer.

[Caracena]

6 minutes ago, allane said:

Yes, the new school had all of the paperwork ready to apply for a new Non-B Extension for me, and I had it by about 11 a.m. Then, to the extent that I can recall (from 2004), we went to the Labour Dept. office and got my new Work Permit.

Maybe the laws regarding this procedure have changed since then...

Are you saying that you didn't have to receive a new Non-B visa? Just had to extend every year the one obtained through the previous employer?

[allane]

  A visa can only be extended by the office that issued it. Nowadays, almost every province has its own Immigration office. My old and new jobs were in  different provinces (Bangkok & Nonthaburi respectively), but at that time, Nonthaburi did not have its own Immigration office, and was under the jurisdiction of Bangkok.

In your husband's case, if each of the two provinces has its own Immigration office, I think that he is going to have to leave Thailand, and get a new Non-B Visa, as I said in my Post #3 above.

Yes, I extended my Non-B.  I did not need to leave Thailand to get a new one.

Edited July 16, 2018 by allane
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[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Caracena said:

I never heard of "termination letter". What would be the point of getting a new extension instead of a visa? And how that could be done? Looks like I'm missing some piece of information here...What we are told is that because we have a new employer(new school) we have to go through the whole process again. We have to prepare documents for a new work permit, get a new Non-B visa. The new school can't extend our current visa because it's based on the work permit issued through different employer.

The termination letter states the date of a person is not longer working. They are done to cancel the existing extension from immigration.

As I wrote before the new school will have to apply for the new work permit and get approval letter for it so that the new extension can be applied for. But reading your earlier post it seems his existing work permit was issued in a different province which means the new one could be issued before the new one is canceled.

A new non-b visa would not be needed if a new extension of stay can be applied for when the current one is canceled.

Visas are not extended only a permit to stay can be extended.

An extension is not solely issued based upon a work permit. It is also based upon the employer and the person applying for it qualifying for it.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, allane said:

  A visa can only be extended by the office that issued it. Nowadays, almost every province has its own Immigration office. My old and new jobs were in  different provinces (Bangkok & Nonthaburi respectively), but at that time, Nonthaburi did not have its own Immigration office, and was under the jurisdiction of Bangkok.

In your husband's case, if each of the two provinces has its own Immigration office, I think that he is going to have to leave Thailand, and get a new Non-B Visa, as I said in my Post #3 above.

The immigration offices do not have to be in the same province. It is possible to cancel the existing extension at the immigration office that issued it and then apply for a new one at the other office. To make that work it would require the cancelation  be requested a few days before the date on a termination letter and then immigration postdating the cancelation to the date on the letter.

[allane]

To the OP:  I hope that the two of us are not muddying the waters for you; we are not contradicting each other. My Post # 11 spoke of not being able to extend a visa at an office other than the one that issued it, Ubonjoe's post immediately above speaks of cancelling one extension and then applying for a new one.  While I have never done that, I accept his judgement. However, it does require careful planning, co-operation from both schools, and travel. I think that many people prefer to leave Thailand, and get a new Non-B visa.  

[Caracena]

Allane, ubonjoe thank you very much for your replies.

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A new non-b visa would not be needed if a new extension of stay can be applied for when the current one is canceled.

I never heard of this option before. It was never suggested to us..I think my husband's school is supposed to know about this option. But they suggest to go out, get a tourist visa and only then apply for Non-B. They told him that he has to get a tourist visa because Ministry of Education will issue the letter only to the holders of tourist or transit visa. Not Non-B visa holders. At least that's what he understood.

We're not overstayed, everything is fine with our documents, we don't have a termination letter yet (we never aked for it).. Just strange.. I guess we have to discuss all this with the school's staff again..

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Caracena said:

They told him that he has to get a tourist visa because Ministry of Education will issue the letter only to the holders of tourist or transit visa. Not Non-B visa holders.

Not sure that is correct.

Just checked the required documents for an extension and it is not mentioned. I think that is only needed to apply for a non-b visa at a embassy or consulate.

[Caracena]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Just checked the required documents for an extension and it is not mentioned. I think that is only needed to apply for a non-b visa at a embassy or consulate.

That's the point of my topic. The school doesn't suggest the extension of stay option. The school suggests us to go out of Thailand and get a tourist visa and after that a new Non-B. When we say why can't we go out and receive Non-B visa right away, they say we can't do so because my husband is a Non-B visa holder, to apply for a new Non-B visa he has to be a Tourist or Transit visa holder. The reason they give for that is that Ministry of Education can issue a Letter necessary for Non-B visa application only to Tourist and Transit visa holders.

Now you and Allane said that actually we can try the extension of stay option, which I never heard of. So, we will discuss this with the school..

[Caracena]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

An extension is not solely issued based upon a work permit. It is also based upon the employer and the person applying for it qualifying for it.

Could you please explain this point in more details?

My husband was told at his previous workplace that his extension of stay (based on his Non-B visa) will be cancelled the same day his work permit expires. Thus indicating an inseparable connection between the work permit and Non-B visa extension (I say so for the shortness). E.g. my husband's work permit expires in November and his extension in January, so he was told by someone that he has to leave the country before the work permit's expiry date.

[allane]

Going off topic here, but can someone clarify what the letter from the Ministry of Education states ? During most of my teaching career it was not required, though at my last job (started in 2016) it was, I didn't bother to question the content; I just followed in the footsteps of the last new hire before me. 

[Caracena]

11 minutes ago, allane said:

Going off topic here, but can someone clarify what the letter from the Ministry of Education states ? During most of my teaching career it was not required, though at my last job (started in 2016) it was, I didn't bother to question the content; I just followed in the footsteps of the last new hire before me. 

Can't help with that.