Choosing A Breed

[quiksilva]

I grew up with dogs but have never owned one myself, but now that my wife and I are about to buy a house (nr Don Muang) with a small garden we want to find a dog to join our family. We both work full time but have a full-time maid so the dog will never be alone.

Mostly we are looking for a dog for companionship and fun walks etc, but also to play a small role in home security. We are not looking for a guard dog that will bite a trespasser clean in half but a friend that will bark and alert us to a possible intrusion.

My parents suggested that its best to get a 1 year old 'pup' who has mellowed a bit.

We would really love a chocolate labrador, but not sure where to start looking for breeders or what to look out for.

Any comments, suggestions or advice you could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

[Little Black Duck]

I grew up with dogs but have never owned one myself, but now that my wife and I are about to buy a house (nr Don Muang) with a small garden we want to find a dog to join our family. We both work full time but have a full-time maid so the dog will never be alone.

Mostly we are looking for a dog for companionship and fun walks etc, but also to play a small role in home security. We are not looking for a guard dog that will bite a trespasser clean in half but a friend that will bark and alert us to a possible intrusion.

My parents suggested that its best to get a 1 year old 'pup' who has mellowed a bit.

We would really love a chocolate labrador, but not sure where to start looking for breeders or what to look out for.

Any comments, suggestions or advice you could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Hi can I suggest a Miniature Poodle, easy maintenance they love walks excellent guard dogs.

extremely intelligent and very loyal..LBD

[johnh101]

I don't think I have ever seen a chocolate lab in Thailand.

[elfe]

i've seen choc lab puppies in a petshop here so there are breeders or puppymills here which produce them. you could look up thai pet magazines for breeders. will be hard to get an older dog though i guess.

[November Rain]

I grew up with dogs but have never owned one myself, but now that my wife and I are about to buy a house (nr Don Muang) with a small garden we want to find a dog to join our family. We both work full time but have a full-time maid so the dog will never be alone.

Mostly we are looking for a dog for companionship and fun walks etc, but also to play a small role in home security. We are not looking for a guard dog that will bite a trespasser clean in half but a friend that will bark and alert us to a possible intrusion.

My parents suggested that its best to get a 1 year old 'pup' who has mellowed a bit.

We would really love a chocolate labrador, but not sure where to start looking for breeders or what to look out for.

Any comments, suggestions or advice you could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Firstly, if you do locate a breeder, go to their place & view the mum & pups in their environment. Make sure you are satisfied with the care shown to them & the friendliness & contentment of mum & pups. Do not take any pups who seem thin, sickly, have runny eyes, or runny noses (ie discharge, not the normal wet nose) or a cough. Maybe take a couple of small dog treats & offer them to your chosen pup. A pup with no appetite is not a good sign!

Do not buy from markets or pet shops! Many of these pups come from puppy farms, as elfe said, and apart from supporting a cruel trade you could end up with a pup with distemper, parvo or similar. Get a vet to come with you to the breeder, or make that your first stop, when you leave with your pup.

The idea of getting an older dog is good if it has been owned &/or socialised. If not, you may have as many problems as if you took a pup. Maybe look at classified ads or ads in supermarkets like Villa to see if anyone is giving away or selling a dog due to moving. Or try somewhere like Soi Dog Rescue (although it's unlikely you'd get a chocolate lab from them)

Good luck. BTW, we have a Thai pup (born Nov 17th) free to a good home who looks (at the mo) like a chocolate lab, but will be smaller, if you're interested.

[baabaabobo]

Labs need a lot of exercise and from my experience suffer frequently from hip problems.

They are very loving so do not make good guard dogs as they are too soppy.

As the duck said a poodle would be a good choice in a small garden but I would go for a good 'ol mongrel Soi dog. check out www.soidog.org or equivalent in Bangers. Good luck on whatever you choose and know that people with dogs live longer statistically due to stress release.

[quiksilva]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Im really looking forward to this, We're still investigating breeds at the moment but there's so many to choose from and I want to be sure I get the right breed for us.

I am also toying with the idea of a Bernese Mountain Dog. I dont mind a daily walk but it should not be too active as our house has 70 sq wah so the garden is not exactly huge, it is fenced but only to 1.5m.

November could you post / pm me with pic of your pup?

bababobo, I know labs can be soppy so and so's, but thats kind of the appeal as long as he barks when we have a visitor, its all good. We used to have a black lab with the rather unoriginal name of Blackie that enjoyed a good run when he was younger but quickly became a lovable couch potato.

If anyone is interested here's a link to some dog breeders here in Thailand that I found http://www.dog.in.th/web/index.php?option=...view&id=303 (if anyone has any feedback on any of these breeders please let me know.

[elfe]

actually, the size of the garden is not that important as the dog will not run around in circles by itself. if you walk it regularly and keep it busy and play with it with toys it should be enough exercise...

i know it has been said so often in this forum, but why not go for a native dog. they make wonderful pets and are easy to 'maintain'. in bred dogs you see too often hip/skin problems, problems with the climate they cannot cope so well with like heat fatigue or skin/ear problems due to humidity. i know breeds are beautiful too, but so can be a 'soi dog' they come in such a variety...

you should not forget that labs love water, especially here in this heat, i have a 9 months old golden lab which loves to bath in the big jars which are outside for him and my retrievers. because of that these dogs are always 'dirty' and can be a problem in the house...

[Nignoy]

For compa

I grew up with dogs but have never owned one myself, but now that my wife and I are about to buy a house (nr Don Muang) with a small garden we want to find a dog to join our family. We both work full time but have a full-time maid so the dog will never be alone.

Mostly we are looking for a dog for companionship and fun walks etc, but also to play a small role in home security. We are not looking for a guard dog that will bite a trespasser clean in half but a friend that will bark and alert us to a possible intrusion.

My parents suggested that its best to get a 1 year old 'pup' who has mellowed a bit.

We would really love a chocolate labrador, but not sure where to start looking for breeders or what to look out for.

Any comments, suggestions or advice you could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

For companionship , good nature, and love you cant beat a whippet, not taking the piss as is my want, but 10 generations of silk scarf and flatcap wearing Pie munchers cant be wrong!!most lovable dogs in the world, only fault they have is burglars and visitors are liable to be licked and loved to death, keep a jack russell terrier for a guard dog and pet to protect the whippet Nignoy

[endure]

How about a boxer? Excellent with kids, family and people they know but wary of strangers. Always up for a game and a laugh, never stop being playful no matter how old. Brilliant dogs but they do need company to keep them entertained. Leave a boxer alone all day and you'll find it's eaten your house when you get home.

[cmsally]

Had both Thai dogs ( a very large mixture) and pedigrees.

Must admit can't beat the Thai dogs for all round house guarding, loyalty, low maintenance.

You take a chance with the pedigrees, by complete luck the last one I had was a perfect specimen with no health

problems. But she's a golden retriever - one doggy chew or toy and she's anybody's!

Couldn't trust her to guard your grandmother's false teeth.

[bina]

first things first:

ask yourself some questions:

if its the maid taking care of the dog, will she walk the dog/run the dog?

what about shedding (bernese are cold weather types, shed shed shed)

are u a couch potatoe family or a sporty type?

what age are your kids?

can u deal with genetic health problems or are u willing to pay for a 'vetted' dog (hip dysplasia certified, etcetc cant remember all the lab problems but: boxers = spondylitis, cancers, gums growing over teeth, cardiac myopathy etc). (labs maybe epilepsy cant remember)

i'm a boxer person but they are NOT for everyone...

is it very important that the dog is a 'breed' dog?? or will a mix that fits the bill do for u?

like others have said, have u thought of any of the soi dog/village dogs?? they are good watch dogs, adaptable, fit the climate, any genetic stuff just died off so no probems of that sort, hardy, seem to be very intelligent, and if socialized, very family oriented frm what i've seen and heard. i saw some village dogs if they were properly taken care of and groomed they can be beautiful with that pert eye and curled tail and stand up expressive ears.

u would be saving a life, making merit and adding to your own life.

[Old Man River]

Labs need a lot of exercise and from my experience suffer frequently from hip problems.

They are very loving so do not make good guard dogs as they are too soppy.

As the duck said a poodle would be a good choice in a small garden but I would go for a good 'ol mongrel Soi dog. check out www.soidog.org or equivalent in Bangers. Good luck on whatever you choose and know that people with dogs live longer statistically due to stress release.

This is excellent advice. I have both a golden retriever (temperament similar to a lab) and a poodle. We do have a sizable yard and that is needed for any retriever, be it lab or golden. Also, as you say, retrievers are not the best choice for security purposes. If a crook came to my house, the golden would welcome them into the house and show them around, but the poodle would make such a racket everyone would know that something was amiss. When I lived in another country I had a street dog. A wonderful dog, but it is best to get them as puppies before they have had time to pick up "street" habits.

[elfe]

i saw some village dogs if they were properly taken care of and groomed they can be beautiful with that pert eye and curled tail and stand up expressive ears.

u would be saving a life, making merit and adding to your own life.

i second that very much but bina, nowadays the soi dogs come in many shapes, hairstyles and sizes! not only the typical pariah dog like looking dogs around but also fluffy, long-tailed, long-eared etc mixes, very cute and a variety for every taste

some of my taken in street dogs for example

honey, 18 months old, taken in as sick puppy from local shelter - exceptionally cute, endless puppy-like behaviour

momo, from local shelter, about 2 yrs old, highly intelligent, playful, brave, watchdog, independent, bossy

coco, about 2 zrs old, (the wihite one)found in the middle of main road as puppy with heatstroke, millions of flea, lice and mites, adorable pup, intelligent, understands every word i say ;O)

made,(the one in my avatar) 18 months old, taken in as very sick puppy, very funny, crazy, loving and playful

pino, about 16 months old, found on the street as very sick puppy, tiny, very brave, intelligent, loving cuddly doggie

[The Dan Sai Kid]

We used to have a chocolate lab - called Amy - she was a lovely dog; a great temperant and highly intelligent. She also had an exceptional pedigree - unfortunately she developed hip problems and from about age 7 needed frequent operations. She was killed by a trainee vet, at the age of 10, who gave her too much anaesthetic. The first we knew about is was post op when we were told we could go down and wake her up after the operation and she found our dog had passed away. I will never own a pedigree dog again - too many genetic problems.

[quiksilva]

Thanks again for your posts, you have given me alot to think about.

My Thai wife really doesn't like the 'Soi Dog', she was bit by one when she was young so they make her nervous, which is a shame but there's not alot that I can do to change her mind about that, and I want her to love our dog as much as I will. I'm however quite flexible, I just love dogs.

@ Bina: We are planning to start our familly this year, so no kids yet, but they are on the horizon.

The maid will walk the dog, but I cant see her running LOL.

We are about to move into our new house in April, in quite a nice estate with a small pond/lake which Im sure a dog would just love to play in, and a few areas nearby where we should be able to let a dog run off the leash. (I dont mind cleaning the dog after a walk, its all part of the fun )

Whilst I love to take it easy I really enjoy walking and playing with dogs. Here's a pic of my parents' tireless Bearded Collie "Archie" who I walk/run when I go home.

When he's not catching up on current affairs Archie's energy know's no bounds, a great dog with bucketloads of personality but I wouldn't want a dog with quite that much energy.

We used to have a black lab / collie mix, who was quite lazy, he'd enjoy his daily walks though but after a quick sprint or two he'd just amble along throughout the rest of the walk content. He was very good, such a great personality and had hardly any health problems. He is the main reason for wanting a lab (or lab based mix) again, but I couldn't have another black one...

Im very much in the investigation phase, not specifically looking for a pedigree, just the right dog for us. However, if we fell in love with a pedigree I would not have any qualms about paying vet bills, a dog is a member of the familly after all and I wouldnt deny any member of the family their health.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

The thing about a dog is that you will get back exactly what you put in. If you have a soi dog from a pup and show it nothing but loving care then that is what you will get back!

EDIT: When I was talking about taking the Amy to the vet then the financial implications were the last thing on my mind. Watching a relatively young dog having to go through countless ops and suffer deteriorating health is something that will stay with me the rest of my life.

Good luck!

EDIT 2: My mum and dad have had a Jack Russell for the past 2 years - called Rowie - she is fantastic - a great personality and very clever. If I get another dog it'll be a Jack Russel!

[quiksilva]

I can see how that could be terrible thing to experience and something I would dearly like to avoid.

I think I need to have another conversation with my better half. At the end of the day she will have to be comfortable with the choice.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice.

oh and Bina - I dont mind the shedding. The thing my missus dislikes is drooling, having owned a black lab that came with the package so I dont mind.

[macb]

I grew up with dogs but have never owned one myself, but now that my wife and I are about to buy a house (nr Don Muang) with a small garden we want to find a dog to join our family. We both work full time but have a full-time maid so the dog will never be alone.

Mostly we are looking for a dog for companionship and fun walks etc, but also to play a small role in home security. We are not looking for a guard dog that will bite a trespasser clean in half but a friend that will bark and alert us to a possible intrusion.

My parents suggested that its best to get a 1 year old 'pup' who has mellowed a bit.

We would really love a chocolate labrador, but not sure where to start looking for breeders or what to look out for.

Any comments, suggestions or advice you could offer would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Hers a link for puppy Breeders. Labs can be chewers if they get bored and they do need lot of excercise.

I think you need to be looking for a dog that suites a small garden and your working life; Cos its not going to see you all day.

http://www.puppysites.com/breeder_thailand.shtml

[MrSnrang]

I second the Jack Russells. They're low-maintenance and smart.

[thaigerd]

How about a boxer? Excellent with kids, family and people they know but wary of strangers. Always up for a game and a laugh, never stop being playful no matter how old. Brilliant dogs but they do need company to keep them entertained. Leave a boxer alone all day and you'll find it's eaten your house when you get home.

Totally agree with the boxer . We've tried it only once for 2-3 hours with our boxer alone at home.........all rooms looked like a night mare, Rotti just slept........

[bina]

someone, elfe or sbk ? i think said that they have some beautiful mixed breeds that need good homes, including pups (maybe nomvember rain?); so they are soi dogs but not the kind that i like (the village pariah dog), as someone pointed out yesterday . so they might be what u are looking for. just a lovable mutt mix. too bad, english farang (a lady in the ladies forum) was looking for homes for her dogs a few days ago. maybe girlx ? she's got some strays with her also; there'so someone else here that was collecting mutts and trying to home some of them due to moving or something. try your local area forum (sorry didnt pay attention to wear youre at).

anyway good luck.

if your wife doesnt like slobber, skip the boxers unless u get a pointier snouted one. my finnish one was a major slobberer (kept the MIL away from the house so that was a good point).

bina

[sbk]

I second the Jack Russells. They're low-maintenance and smart.

Gotta be careful with small dog syndrome. Jack's are notorious for liking to pick fights with dogs 3 times their size.

From terrier.com:

# Most behavioral problems are due to a lack of companionship, discipline, activity and exercise.

# A Jack Russell Terrier that bites can be a big problem. You must stop this behavior before it becomes dangerous.

# Don't allow your Jack Russell to win any games of aggression. The outcome could certainly send the wrong message to him.

# Exercise, exercise, exercise! A tired dog seldom want to pick a fight.

# Never put your hands between two fighting terriers

# Jack Russells are often aggressive with other dogs. Same-sex aggression and aggression towards other breeds of dogs is well documented with this terrier. It is strongly recommended that no more than two Jack Russells (of opposite sex only) ever be permitted to stay together unattended.

# Jack Russells require firm, consistent discipline. They are extremely intelligent, continue to test their limits throughout their life.

# Jack Russells can become very possessive of their owner or a favorite member of the family or of what they consider to be their personal property if allowed to do so to the point of showing aggressive protective behavior that must be controlled from an early age.

# Jack Russells can be very destructive if left unattended and unemployed! Most behavioral problems are due to a lack of companionship, discipline, activity and exercise. If you've only seen perfect, well-behaved JR's, they are ones that were lucky enough to be exercised, well socialized, and trained.

But I have to admit, Jack Russells are the cutest dogs

[November Rain]

i think said that they have some beautiful mixed breeds that need good homes, including pups (maybe nomvember rain?)

Yes, bina, we have about 140 dogs at present, 120 of which are eminently suitable for adoption. The others have problems that mean they could only go to owners with specific experience. The dogs are all ages, pup to about 5 years old, neutered (if old enough) & fully vaccinated. About a dozen were owned previously, but all are socialised. All sorts of looks, from real Thai dog (short, velvety hair, pointy ears) to long, curly haired, all sizes & all colours & lots of different personalities!

BTW bina, what do you mean by "pariah dog"? Not a term I've heard used here. Is it what I call "real Thai dogs"?

[bina]

for all dog lovers: my now favorite type(s) of dog; the prototype dog; so i put some links to some pariah dog pages which mention also the thai ridgeback and the israeli canaan...

The phrase pariah dog or pie dog originally referred to the wild dogs of India, but has come to refer in common parlance to any population of wild or feral dogs who live near human settlements worldwide, scavenging for food and seldom interacting directly with humans. These populations may or may not be related to the extant pariah dogs of India, depending on their location and heritage. The term used to be an epithet to the same extent that the word pariah could be used to denigrate as well as designate the lowest social caste of Indians, but is now used in cynology and by kennel clubs with no negative judgment implied.

All pariah dogs are feral, but not all feral dogs are pariah dogs in the genetic sense. Though they are outcasts in the social sense, and thus may still be called pariahs by observers who are not dog fanciers, feral dogs may be of any breed or mix of breeds. The individuals may be stray pets, or descended from strays, or from litters dumped in wild or rural areas by unscrupulous owners. They may form packs with other strays or attempt to join existing canid packs (such as a wolf pack).

While pariah dogs are by definition feral, pariah-type dogs are not necessarily feral. This designation is used by scientists, breeders, and historians to refer to wild dog populations which have not been domesticated, as well as recognized dog breeds with pariah dog heritage.

For example, the pariah dogs of India are not formally recognized as a specific breed by any major canine registry, though the capitalized designation "Pariah" or "Pariah Dog" is used by, for example, the United Kennel Club and cynologists to describe a dog type or dog group classification.[1] UKC-recognized Pariah-type breeds include but are not limited to the African Basenji, the Asian Thai Ridgeback, and the American Carolina Dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariah_dog

http://www.cdca.org/history.html (canaan dog)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/pariahdog.htm

http://www.workingdogweb.com/Dingo.htm

hope this explains everything better.

i also dont recommend terriers; they have a search and destroy personality to the point of obsessiveness which is good for the hunt, bad for a family that will soon have young kids to deal with... unless u are hyperactive in personality.

my father just emailed me some article about horrendous new breeds like the puggle (pug + beagle! and other wierd quasi breeds) . maybe i've gone 'slum snob' but i really do prefer now the pariah types as the all purpose, easy grooming, eating no genetic problems dog, although, they are a bit more independant than most breeds... they do have less destructive behavior EXCEPT FOR DIGGING. they do seem to have a thing about digging,especially the bitches (they dig densfor birthing and take really good care of their pups.)

[November Rain]

Ok, bina, I see what you mean now. We've got a few of them in the center & also a few that I think are related to the Thai Lang An breed. Interestingly, near my home are many of these dogs (all female, all brown). They are part of a couple of "packs" of street dogs that I feed. Highly intelligent, they love the food and dance around me, but won't let me touch them, so I can't catch them for neutering. They do dig holes for their pups, too. Must admit, I've got a very soft spot for these dogs too. They're so smart!!

[quiksilva]

UPDATE: My wife is now thinking about a Saint Bernard (yeh I know despite the slobber and shedding galore, she thinks they are cute.. ), I have read around the net that they dont need THAT much exercise, 30mins to 1 hr walk a day should be fine, plus they'd like the lake at our place. They are quite lethargic indoors, great with kids and good watch dogs, (if poor guard dogs) so it could be an option, our house is big enough and I dont mind the food expenses.

My staff's father is a General in the Thai Police and has access to some of the country's best breeders of GSD's, Labs, Goldens, and Saint Bernards.

So I hope to bring my wife to the breeders on the weekend, to show her various breeds and just how big Saints get and how much slobber they make, in fact I intend to get take her along to many places so that she can get a better idea of what she likes and I'll work what would be suitable out of breeds she likes, wish me luck

Does anyone know whether vets here will go out with you to inspect puppies? It would be very useful if they did and I'd be willing to pay.

[elfe]

that is a very good idea! look carefully at the parents of the puppies, this will show a lot, how they walk, run, any eye problems like hanging eye lids or skin problems. also make sure the puppies have not spent their whole life only in a cage yet.

for the vet to accompany you, i guess you will have to ask them personally, maybe they will do so on their day off. but nor sure if any of them would say anything negative at a breeders place...

good luck and keep us postet about your experiences and choice!

[sbk]

UPDATE: My wife is now thinking about a Saint Bernard (yeh I know despite the slobber and shedding galore, she thinks they are cute.. ), I have read around the net that they dont need THAT much exercise, 30mins to 1 hr walk a day should be fine, plus they'd like the lake at our place. They are quite lethargic indoors, great with kids and good watch dogs, (if poor guard dogs) so it could be an option, our house is big enough and I dont mind the food expenses.

My staff's father is a General in the Thai Police and has access to some of the country's best breeders of GSD's, Labs, Goldens, and Saint Bernards.

So I hope to bring my wife to the breeders on the weekend, to show her various breeds and just how big Saints get and how much slobber they make, in fact I intend to get take her along to many places so that she can get a better idea of what she likes and I'll work what would be suitable out of breeds she likes, wish me luck

Does anyone know whether vets here will go out with you to inspect puppies? It would be very useful if they did and I'd be willing to pay.

St Bernards do not handle the heat and humidity well. Their coats must be kept clipped and the hot weather tends to make their hearts work harder thus shortening their already fairly short lives.

[elfe]

sbk is very right.. honestly the st bernard would be one of the last breeds i would like to have here in thailand... here on samui we have some and they look miserable and a pity to see, hip/bone problems, fur all tangled and clotted, eye lids hanging low, and always lying around due to easy exhausting because of climate. but these dogs i talk about are not well taken care of, so with lots of care and good choice they can still be beautiful healthy dogs i think. have to keep them in the a/c though... i personally think there are many more suitable and easier to maintain breeds.