UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Patriot1066]

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

We will be worse off under May's deal, but no where near as bad as a "no deal" exit ... both are inferior to what we have now. The problem is that the pendulum has not swung far enough public opinion wise on May's deal to just abandon it. The pendulum has swung far enough on "no deal" ... few want this, and if this is the only deal in town then I think that a people's vote is a fair solution. 

 

The issue is no remainers are talking about the risks of remaining? Do you think it is safe.

 

Such as loosing our budget rebate, collapse of the Euro, business relocation and paid for by the EU (Think Ford and Jaguar).

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjqhqng2OfeAhXLCcAKHYBSDN8QFjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbusiness.financialpost.com%2Fpmn%2Fbusiness-pmn%2Fbrexit-italy-trade-risks-piling-up-for-europes-economy&usg=AOvVaw3pwSk8uryxGA_FDqV3nFG-

 

Do remainers really believe staying in is a safe and predictable option?

 

 

[tebee]

The estimated damage to GDP is 2% of we join EEA, 4% for May's deal and 8% for no deal WTO 

 

For comparison the banking crisis caused a 2% drop in GDP 

 

Don't ask me where I saw those figgures though !

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

It looks like Dad's Army are on manoeuvres again ... "you silly boy"!

 

 

 

 

'Don't tell them your name Pike'

 

Still one of the most funny sketches ever! (For may age group)

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwibpq6a2efeAhXDL8AKHa_IA7gQwqsBMAF6BAgDEAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG1HwKA0J-gU&usg=AOvVaw3827yugyXkbxBpscKUlNOe

 

Mannering and the boys always came out on top!

 

[Patriot1066]

Just now, tebee said:

The estimated damage to GDP is 2% of we join EEA, 4% for May's deal and 8% for no deal WTO 

 

For comparison the banking crisis caused a 2% drop in GDP 

 

Don't ask me where I saw those figgures though !

Most EU funded figures? or our treasury europhiles?

 

By the same people who forecast us not joing the EURO would lead to economic disaster and loss of GDP?

[Patriot1066]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It is now a choice between May's deal or no Brexit

 

It is absolutely not worth it.

 

Most Brexiter claims have been debunked.

 

What precisely do we get from May's deal apart from soothing some Brexiters?

 

 

BREXIT was leaving the EU control no deal is actually Brexit.

 

In any case they will have to do deals as the EU economies are two week not do do a deal the great German economy and industrial output is falling, tap the domino of Spain Greece Italy and the lot will quickly topple taking the whole lot down. End of EU as we know it. GREAT OPTION !!

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi8w-KA2-feAhUSSsAKHdyBAoUQFjABegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2F3-signs-germanys-economy-falling-apart-2016-6&usg=AOvVaw2kd1YMM83iZ3-9LMFk96CU

[mommysboy]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It is now a choice between May's deal or no Brexit

 

It is absolutely not worth it.

 

Most Brexiter claims have been debunked.

 

What precisely do we get from May's deal apart from soothing some Brexiters?

 

 

Not blowing my own trumpet- parp, parp, parp.... but I did say no Brexit was a possibility some few weeks ago.

 

 

[Patriot1066]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We will have to get them from somewhere!

 

I think many Europeans are put off by our apparent nasty attitude whether we mean it or not. It's off putting.

The average cost for unskilled EU migrants is £ 3,500 for the tax payer in benefits and costs excluding maternity care and the fact they send money abroad not helping GDP.

 

Hope more are put off, we turn down skilled people form Australia but can take all the EUs unskilled labour which we subsidise big business with cheap labour.

 

Seems like a form of servitude for us?

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwio8e282-feAhWlKcAKHZLcAiYQFjAMegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffullfact.org%2Fimmigration%2Fimmigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration%2F&usg=AOvVaw2Lsok4OOyONMURkZNX5maD

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

The estimated damage to GDP is 2% of we join EEA, 4% for May's deal and 8% for no deal WTO 

 

For comparison the banking crisis caused a 2% drop in GDP 

 

Don't ask me where I saw those figgures though !

 

I also understand that this omnishambles has cost us 2.5% in missed growth already.  No deal from the outset would probably have been less damaging to what is to come.

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The issue is no remainers are talking about the risks of remaining? Do you think it is safe.

 

Such as loosing our budget rebate, collapse of the Euro, business relocation and paid for by the EU (Think Ford and Jaguar).

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjqhqng2OfeAhXLCcAKHYBSDN8QFjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbusiness.financialpost.com%2Fpmn%2Fbusiness-pmn%2Fbrexit-italy-trade-risks-piling-up-for-europes-economy&usg=AOvVaw3pwSk8uryxGA_FDqV3nFG-

 

Do remainers really believe staying in is a safe and predictable option?

 

 

Yes.

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Not blowing my own trumpet- parp, parp, parp.... but I did say no Brexit was a possibility some few weeks ago.

 

 

Yes

 

I think it is, but it will start to get interesting how they think they will get away with it?

 

How are they going to control the inevitable of driving people to the far right and populist movements as the promises by government on what they would do after the referendum have been gradually eroded. people are very angry.

 

There are lots of plans in hand from brexeteers to take peaceful direct action believe me. If they think the French fuel protests are serious they will look like child's play.

 

In a  way staying in an wrecking the EU with vetos etc such as on budgets seems an option, as I think UKIP would make a killing in any Euro elections ?

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwio2PTj3OfeAhUTSsAKHQKqA2MQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-46254566&usg=AOvVaw2NdZz407PZRyiKUiRUvqPg

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We will have to get them from somewhere!

 

I think many Europeans are put off by our apparent nasty attitude whether we mean it or not. It's off putting.

Indeed. It has been rather tiresome to hear lies of 'unelected and undemocratic EU' etc. etc. for two years. It has also been rather sad to hear what the people of UK think about other Europeans, how they should not come to work in the UK. 

 

This has been happening for a long time. Therefore, while it's sad that some of our friends are losing the access to Europe, it's not too bad to see some of these Brexiters to be sentenced to life on a small island. 

 

And yes, I read some of the comments how I have not been the best friend of the UK. I simply reflected back what the Brexiteers were saying about EU. Somehow these folks think they can say anything about EU and start to cry when people points out that this mess is actually caused by UK. Sad! 

[NanLaew]

On 11/20/2018 at 3:07 PM, bomber said:

farmers and even more so fishermen should be at the bottom of the list when sorting out the brexit mess,ive never met a poor farmer and know how much made out of the foot and mouth fiasco,something else our politicians ballsed up.

OTTH, I was personal friends of 2 farmers that topped themselves when faced with 'losing the farm'. Also, spending my school years in a fishing community, for every one boat owner banking big time, running around in Alfa Romeo's and building a 6-bedroom house, there was about half a dozen others fending off the bailiffs.

 

Yes, the politicians have always played fast and loose with agriculture and fisheries, even more so within the EU. I guess the farmers and fishermen that fail are just so much collateral damage.

Edited November 22, 2018 by NanLaew

[Patriot1066]

10 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Yes.

Why are there no risks with staying in?

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

OTTH, I was personal friends of 2 farmers that topped themselves when faced with 'losing the farm'. Also, spending my school years in a fishing community, for every one boat owner banking big time, running around in Alfa Romeo's and building a 6-bedroom house, there was about half a dozen others fending off the bailiffs.

 

Yes, the politicians have always played fast and loose with agriculture and fisheries, even more so within the EU. I guess the farmers and fishermen that fail is just so much collateral damage.

Yes When I was at Uni a friends dad shot himself in the barn very very sad he did the same thing a couple of years ago.

 

Obviously Farming and Fishing don't interest the Metropolitan elite in London.

 

They would soon conme running we can wreck their fishing and farming in France, Italy and Spain and possibly bring down the Euro. As well as making Billions from the Tariffs they will pay us to import their big shiny cars! And overpRiced food through CAP.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj-i_nR3-feAhVBGsAKHSCvAzYQFjABegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityam.com%2F263848%2Fno-deal-brexit-would-slap-tariffs-93billion-eu-food-imports&usg=AOvVaw3wz7Fh6XdTKlgbh8oJoZdB

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

My position, like I think most remainers, is that I'll go along with this as long as responsible steps are taken to minimise the damage to the economy ... no one in the Leave camp was indicating that the UK would just crash out, all of them were promising a good exit deal. I did move on as we were all promised a damage limitation deal. I don't have a problem with others requesting another referendum, that is their right. Nigel Farage would not have gone away nor would the ERG group. 

 

I just watched an interview with the polling expert Professor Curtice who stated that 50% of leavers do not want "no deal", this was from a recent UGOV poll. So the "will of the people" does not support "no deal". What you have now is a government that cannot seal a deal and a parliament in gridlock. The only fair and sensible option is to put the issue back into the hands of the people of the UK. If leavers believe that the result will be the same why are they so scared? We all know thew answer to that question, they would lose. You cannot undermine democracy by a democratic vote.

I really don't understand the mindset of remainers where they quote from an article and then fail to provide a link to support their claim

Leavers prefer No Deal to Deal

Survation found that in those circumstances 54% of Leave voters would prefer to exit without a deal, while 24% would want the deal. Meanwhile, when YouGov forced all their respondents to say which they would prefer, without giving them the option of saying ‘Don’t Know’, 64% of Leave voters said they would prefer no deal, and just 36% the deal. Meanwhile, Opinium report that 48% of Leave voters agree that ‘leaving without a deal would be better than leaving with the current deal’

 

Another Dose of Chequers? Voters’ Initial Reactions to the Draft Brexit Deal

Posted on 19 November 2018 by John Curtice

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/another-dose-of-chequers-voters-initial-reactions-to-the-draft-brexit-deal/

 

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

 

 

[My Thai Life]

36 minutes ago, tebee said:

The estimated damage to GDP is 2% of we join EEA, 4% for May's deal and 8% for no deal WTO 

 

For comparison the banking crisis caused a 2% drop in GDP 

 

Don't ask me where I saw those figgures though !

None of those figures make sense without a timeframe.

 

The public domain forecasts are over 15 years, and the worst case is about 10% of GDP - OVER 15 YEARS - now amortise that, and see what it amounts to per year - it's insignificant, and that's the worst case. I'm not saying I agree with any particular forecast, they are all speculative. (One of my former employers - a world-leading management consultancy - forecasts a slight negative impact over 15 years.)

 

Now compare that to GDP forecasts for the EU over the same period, and only then can you evaluate the economic case. No-one, absolutely no-one, has done this (I'm not just talking about posters on this forum). Without this comparison the forecasts are meaningless. By the way, the short- to mid-term forecasts for the EU range from bad to disastrous - I have posted the links already.

 

Very few people (includng politicians) understand the forecasts or have even read them - I have not seen one single informed comment on the forecasts on this thread. What I have seen is the forecasts being used as weapons by people who haven't read them, and who are quite probably unable to interpret them.

 

NB, the UK gov't has refused to release their economic model or the assumptions they fed into the model. Interpret that as you will,

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by My Thai Life

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, tebee said:

The estimated damage to GDP is 2% of we join EEA, 4% for May's deal and 8% for no deal WTO 

 

For comparison the banking crisis caused a 2% drop in GDP 

 

Don't ask me where I saw those figgures though !

If you can't provide a source or link is must be FAKE NEWS 

[nontabury]

15 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Indeed. It has been rather tiresome to hear lies of 'unelected and undemocratic EU' etc. etc. for two years. It has also been rather sad to hear what the people of UK think about other Europeans, how they should not come to work in the UK. 

 

This has been happening for a long time. Therefore, while it's sad that some of our friends are losing the access to Europe, it's not too bad to see some of these Brexiters to be sentenced to life on a small island. 

 

And yes, I read some of the comments how I have not been the best friend of the UK. I simply reflected back what the Brexiteers were saying about EU. Somehow these folks think they can say anything about EU and start to cry when people points out that this mess is actually caused by UK. Sad! 

 

 How many times do you have to be told. It’s not Europeans that we don’t like it’s the So called E.u.  Exactly the same as an ever increasing number of Europeans are also against this monstrosity.

  

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Why are there no risks with staying in?

You take a risk crossing the road. For me staying in the EU is the best option for the UK. 

[whatsupdoc]

 
They would soon conme running we can wreck their fishing and farming in France, Italy and Spain and possibly bring down the Euro. As well as making Billions from the Tariffs they will pay us to import their big shiny cars! And overpRiced food through CAP.
 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj-i_nR3-feAhVBGsAKHSCvAzYQFjABegQICRAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityam.com%2F263848%2Fno-deal-brexit-would-slap-tariffs-93billion-eu-food-imports&usg=AOvVaw3wz7Fh6XdTKlgbh8oJoZdB
 
 
 
 

Completely delusional..... Why not give it a try? Give us a laugh.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nontabury]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

You take a risk crossing the road. For me staying in the EU is the best option for the UK. 

If your so scared of life, better to not even leave your bed.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 How many times do you have to be told. It’s not Europeans that we don’t like it’s the So called E.u.  Exactly the same as an ever increasing number of Europeans are also against this monstrosity.

  

 

If that is true it flies in the face of the many tv interviews that I watched were people said they wanted to get rid of foreigners? Brexit was in large part a protest vote against immigration ... from Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I really don't understand the mindset of remainers where they quote from an article and then fail to provide a link to support their claim

Leavers prefer No Deal to Deal

Survation found that in those circumstances 54% of Leave voters would prefer to exit without a deal, while 24% would want the deal. Meanwhile, when YouGov forced all their respondents to say which they would prefer, without giving them the option of saying ‘Don’t Know’, 64% of Leave voters said they would prefer no deal, and just 36% the deal. Meanwhile, Opinium report that 48% of Leave voters agree that ‘leaving without a deal would be better than leaving with the current deal’

 

Another Dose of Chequers? Voters’ Initial Reactions to the Draft Brexit Deal

Posted on 19 November 2018 by John Curtice

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/another-dose-of-chequers-voters-initial-reactions-to-the-draft-brexit-deal/

 

 

It was Curtice being interviewed on a news station, courtesy of You Tube. I watched it yesterday, I suspect it was aired the day before.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

If your so scared of life, better to not even leave your bed.

 

I cant see any merit or bravery involved in deliberately crashing your own economy, with all the real implications that has for real people and real businesses. It’s plain stupidity. So don’t ask me and others to be stupid just because you are.

 

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you can't provide a source or link is must be FAKE NEWS 

Fake news is what you bought when the Leave campaign told you that the EU would bend over backwards to give the UK a great deal.

Edited November 22, 2018 by AlexRich

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 How many times do you have to be told. It’s not Europeans that we don’t like it’s the So called E.u.  Exactly the same as an ever increasing number of Europeans are also against this monstrosity.

It really doesn't matter how many times you say it. It doesn't matter as you'd say on next post 'We want to control our borders (to keep those filthy Europeans away)'. Reading between lines is not at all that difficult in this case. 

 

You wanted to get rid of us Europeans. You wanted to feel superior towards us Europeans. You got what you wanted. Your own very British islet with purebred Birts. Congratulations!

 

Now I want to brush my teeth. 

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

It was Curtice being interviewed on a news station, courtesy of You Tube. I watched it yesterday, I suspect it was aired the day before.

If it was on youtube you can provide  link then unless the interview also aired some information you don't want the forum members to hear

[transam]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It really doesn't matter how many times you say it. It doesn't matter as you'd say on next post 'We want to control our borders (to keep those filthy Europeans away)'. Reading between lines is not at all that difficult in this case. 

 

You wanted to get rid of us Europeans. You wanted to feel superior towards us Europeans. You got what you wanted. Your own very British islet with purebred Birts. Congratulations!

 

Now I want to brush my teeth. 

Thank you for showing your true colours, your hatred of Brit folk...

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Fake news is what you bought when the Leave campaign told you that the EU would bend over backwards to give the UK a great deal.

Evidence-based policy or fake news? Eleven Economic Propositions made by Remain

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/evidence-based-policy-or-fake-news-eleven-economic-propositions-made-by-remain/

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

If it was on youtube you can provide  link then unless the interview also aired some information you don't want the forum members to hear

I’d struggle to find it, and as I’m outside and on my iPad I don’t think I can find it, because I watched it on my laptop. But later tonight I might be able to, and if I can find it I will post it. In the meantime please presume whatever you like.