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UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll


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Posted
9 minutes ago, rixalex said:


 


This goes to the crux of the problem. Rather than just getting on with delivering the result of the referendum in a whole hearted and positive manner, those pulling the strings have been desperately trying to walk an impossible tightrope from day one of not upsetting anyone, with the result of pleasing nobody.

A fully committed Brexit could have been successful. That's not what we've had. Remainers are now smugly proclaiming they were right all along and that leavers were stupid to believe Brexit could have ever been successful.

Remainers certainly MUST think leavers are stupid if they think leavers haven't noticed that it's been the remainers in parliament and in the media who have ensured a complete mess of this.



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The onus was on the Government to enthuse both Parliament, and the electorate. Quite simply, they have done a terrible job of that.  Utter incompetence was there right from day one.

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Posted

Has EU member countries approved this said deal? If not, perhaps we should spice things us and simply refuse any deals with UK.

 

Should we do so, the funny part would be to hear how the brexiteers would start complaining how unfair the EU is and how much they want this deal to happen ????

 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, nontabury said:

That’s where the problem started. They fooled the British electorate in 1975. Don’t take my word for it. Read up on how Heath, even lied to his own M.P’s,as confirmed this very week by one of the  Conservative M.P’ who attended one of his briefing before the vote.

2016, thanks to the internet we were able to side step the establishment owed media and seek out the true facts. Unfortunately people like you are unable to question what they’ve been fed. I beleive the word is brainwashed.

Who has brainwashed me?

Posted
1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

The onus was on the Government to enthuse both Parliament, and the electorate. Quite simply, they have done a terrible job of that.  Utter incompetence was there right from day one.

So average politicians were tasked with an almost impossibly complicated task and it got more complicated .

I see .

Posted
28 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

'A fully committed Brexit could have been successful.' 

 

Agreed

 

Instead of the usual whingeing that you are not getting "a fully committed Brexit," perhaps for once you or rixalex, who you quoted, or any other Brexiteer can actually define exactly what you mean by "a fully committed Brexit" and how that would benefit the UK?

 

 

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Jim1000 said:

So average politicians were tasked with an almost impossibly complicated task and it got more complicated .

I see .

Yes it was a tough task, maybe impossible as you say.  On the other hand, they were dithering from day one.  They chose a route that involved, evasion, deception, and at times fought very dirty.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

As can be seen from numerous posts here, the average Brexiteer wants Brits to retain our freedom of movement rights in the EU, EEA and Switzerland, but doesn't want those nasty foreigners to retain their rights in the UK! They fail to realise that we can't retain our rights without EU, EEA and Swiss nationals retaining theirs!

 

Yes, via Surinder Singh as explained above.

 

Both sides have said that those already exercising a treaty right pre Brexit will be able to remain and obtain PR post Brexit. But, as you rightly say, nothing has been finalised yet.

But in the case of the Brits those rights will be severely restricted - we will only have the right to live in the country we are resident in at the end of Brexit and lose the rights to live in the other 26

 

Some may lose their jobs - some counties have rules that certain positions, like civil service ones, can only be help by nationals  of that country. The Eu forced then to open the positions to all EU nationals, but come April next year brits are no longer EU nationals.  

 

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

As for those Brits who wish to live, work or study in an EU member, EEA member or Switzerland and vice versa post Brexit, most reports say that free movement between the UK and the others will end; if not immediately then within 2 years of Brexit.

 

Assuming we don't crash out with no deal, nothing will change until then end of transition. Of course there are those who think transition will be indefinitely extended , so it could be nothing will ever change !

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

Why should they? I understand your worry, and as I am someone who voted remain you have my full sympathy. But the government sees itself as carrying out the people's wishes as represented by they referendum result; and your plight and that of the other approx. 1.3 million Brits living in the EU, EEA or Switzerland is pretty low on their list of priorities.

 

Of course, the average Brexiteer couldn't give a damn about you and the other 1.3 million.

 

The fact is that many of those who voted leave hadn't a clue about the full consequences of their decision is something we have to accept and try to make the best of.

Yes but if you ignore the rights of those 1.5 million people why are you surprised that they try and organize opinion against losing those rights? Doing things to safeguard our rights and those of EU citizens in the UK  would have considerably reduced the opposition to brexit. 

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Posted (edited)

Seems that UK and Spain have agreed on suitable language re Gibraltar to be inserted in the deal.

 

So, that was the last obstacle

and all should be set for EU member state chieftains to sign the deal tomorrow.

 

 

 

Next; UK parliament.

 

early December is it?

 

Edited by melvinmelvin
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Instead of the usual whingeing that you are not getting "a fully committed Brexit," perhaps for once you or rixalex, who you quoted, or any other Brexiteer can actually define exactly what you mean by "a fully committed Brexit" and how that would benefit the UK?

 

 

 

 

Well, I was just agreeing with the simple notion that had we been more committed then we would have had a better, and smoother outcome.

 

Although I liked the idea of Brexit I was a reluctant remainer myself because I thought it too disruptive at a time when we needed more stability.

 

Economically, no, there isn't any benefit in the short term for sure, and possibly not even guaranteed in the long run.  But, there were other reasons.

 

I don't like the proposed deal because it is the worst of both worlds- I would first favour no Brexit, or WTO deal.

Edited by mommysboy
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Posted
47 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Seems that UK and Spain have agreed on suitable language re Gibraltar to be inserted in the deal.

 

So, that was the last obstacle

and all should be set for EU member state chieftains to sign the deal tomorrow.

 

 

 

Next; UK parliament.

 

early December is it?

 

That's when the real fireworks show starts.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

That's when the real fireworks show starts.

 

probably a lot of noise will be generated, but of no significant consequence  - me guess

 

deal shot down? guess not

would mean either no deal Brexit or going back to EU and ask for another match

 

deal accepted as is, maybe

 

deal accepted with some totally inconsequential amendments, probably

 

 

Posted

Why Theresa May's Brexit Deal Is Terrible For The U.K.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/11/24/why-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-is-terrible-for-the-u-k/#19a5c2b47bd7

 

 

But once the Article 50 deadline is past, the Withdrawal Agreement would lock the U.K. into “frozen Brexit,” with the EU holding the keys to the freezer. Eventually, the UK would have to choose between hard borders, including in Ireland, or becoming a permanent EU rule taker.

It is an appalling deal. It merely buys time at the cost of a considerably weaker negotiating position for the U.K.

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Posted

May sells out Gibraltar then makes a statement saying she “stands by it”.  

 

May sells out Scottish fishing  then makes a statement saying “nothing has changed”.  

 

Either she is unconsciously channelling Orwellian doublespeak, or she is actively seeking to deceive.

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Posted

Little did i think I'd end up quoting Nadine Dorries, but brexit has brought unsettling times....

 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, tebee said:

Little did i think I'd end up quoting Nadine Dorries, but brexit has brought unsettling times....

 

 

 

would you know where/when Barnier said what is claimed above?

 

Posted

Remainers concerns are derived from looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions....would appear that Brexiteers can't do this preferring to base their dogma on wishful thinking, baseless predictions (OK, maybe tea leaves) and labelling anything they don't like the sound of as "project fear" (I guess because it makes them frightened?)

 

Her are a few examples of Brexiteers reading their tea leaves.......

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1065648448362434560.html?fbclid=IwAR0CRtqvm0v7Vz_NJy8Z0zbpsWimPrlVfGC7ELFsNIoZ5tqzDQjkr5ad1wA

 

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