No one can 'obliterate' Taiwan's existence, president says on departure for U.S.

[webfact]

No one can 'obliterate' Taiwan's existence, president says on departure for U.S.

By Jess Macy Yu

 

FILE PHOTO: Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen attends a news conference to announce the new Presidential Office secretary-general in Taipei, Taiwan April 11, 2018. REUTERS/Tyrone Siu

 

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Vowing that "no one can obliterate Taiwan's existence," President Tsai Ing-wen left on Sunday for the United States and two of Taipei's remaining diplomatic allies, amid pressure from China to try to stamp out references to the island internationally. 

 

China, which claims self-ruled and democratic Taiwan as its own, has stepped up a campaign against the island as it tries to assert Chinese sovereignty. Beijing has ordered foreign companies to label Taiwan as part of China on their websites and is excluding Taiwan from as many international forums as it can.

 

Also, China has also been whittling down the number of countries that recognise Taiwan - now just 18 - with Burkina Faso and the Dominican Republic switching relations to Beijing this year.

 

Speaking before her flight to Los Angeles, where she was stopping en route to Belize and Paraguay, Tsai struck a defiant tone.

 

"In going abroad, the whole world can see Taiwan; they can see our country as well as our support for democracy and freedom," Tsai said. "We only need to be firm so that no one can obliterate Taiwan's existence."

 

Tsai arrived in Los Angeles on Sunday and was scheduled to address a banquet for Taiwanese-Americans there on Sunday evening, then pay a visit to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library outside of Los Angeles on Monday, according to Phi Lin Chuang, a Taiwanese government spokeswoman.

 

China, which believes Tsai wants to push for Taiwan's formal independence, has already complained to Washington about her U.S. stopovers, which include Houston on her way back.

 

The trip starts one day after Taiwan's state-run refiner CPC Corp announced a deal valued at $25 billion to purchase liquefied natural gas from the United States over the next 25 years.

 

The deal was aimed at boosting trade relations with the United States by reducing its trade surplus and was also a sign of goodwill ahead of Tsai's visit, a person familiar with the government's thinking told Reuters.

 

Tsai, who says she wants to maintain the status quo with China, will also be looking to reaffirm Washington-Taipei ties and to shore up support ahead of local elections in Taiwan in November amid the escalating pressure from China.

 

During her U.S. stops, Tsai intends to meet Ed Royce, chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, according to two people with knowledge of the plans.

 

She will also meet with business representatives to discuss how Taiwan could drum up investment and procurement with the United States, they said.

 

Washington has no formal ties with Taiwan but is the island's strongest ally and sole foreign arms supplier.

 

Tsai's U.S. stopovers come as China and the United States are engaged in a trade war, adding to Beijing's irritation with Washington.

 

(Reporting by Jess Macy Yu; Additional reporting by Yimou Lee; Editing by Ben Blanchard, Richard Borsuk and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-13

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, webfact said:

No one can 'obliterate' Taiwan's existence, president says on departure for U.S

No one should, but China certainly could...and in diplomatic terms, is. 

[spidermike007]

China, being the despot nation it is, wants to eventually control the world. The way they see it, is they simply want to reclaim their rightful place in history. Especially during the Han, Ming, Tang and Qing dynasties. Not only was China one of the most powerful nations on earth at that time, but during much of that period they were the most powerful nation in Asia. All they are trying to do is to get back to that place, of absolute control. They will stop at nothing to achieve that end. And unlike the West, they have a long term plan. Taiwan is right to assert their independence. They became independent at a horrific time in Chinese history, and they have no interest in being under Chinese control. China treats them as a threat, knows they are an economic powerhouse, and is behaving like a true despot, with regard to Taiwan and the entire South China Sea. It is only the beginning of a decades long battle over supremacy. Now that they are as powerful as they are, both from a military and from an economic point of view, they feel they have leverage. And they intend to use it! They are not to be trusted. Not the Chinese government. I have no issues with the people. Their government is heinous, corrupt and ruthless. And many nations in Africa, and SE Asia are already under an increasing amount of Chinese control, or influence. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by spidermike007

[mfd101]

Hard not to sympathize with the Taiwanese. They haven't hurt anyone, just looked after themselves & turned themselves in the process from a KMT dictatorship into a thriving democracy. But they're on the wrong side of history ...

 

On the other hand, Beijing may be ruthless & determined, but stupid on the whole they are not. So killing a golden egg on their doorstep will happen only in the case of major warfare in the neighbourhood eg on the Korean peninsular. It might be hard for Beijing to resist a move when everyone else is distracted.

[Redline]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

China, being the despot nation it is, wants to eventually control the world. The way they see it, is they simply want to reclaim their rightful place in history. Especially during the Han, Ming, Tang and Qing dynasties. Not only was China one of the most powerful nations on earth at that time, but during much of that period they were the most powerful nation in Asia. All they are trying to do is to get back to that place, of absolute control. They will stop at nothing to achieve that end. And unlike the West, they have a long term plan. Taiwan is right to assert their independence. They became independent at a horrific time in Chinese history, and they have no interest in being under Chinese control. China treats them as a threat, knows they are an economic powerhouse, and is behaving like a true despot, with regard to Taiwan and the entire South China Sea. It is only the beginning of a decades long battle over supremacy. Now that they are as powerful as they are, both from a military and from an economic point of view, they feel they have leverage. And they intend to use it! They are not to be trusted. Not the Chinese government. I have no issues with the people. Their government is heinous, corrupt and ruthless. And many nations in Africa, and SE Asia are already under an increasing amount of Chinese control, or influence. 

It’s time to confront China before they get too powerful, which is happening at an alarming pace.  USA, Europe, India, Japan, Canada, Australia... need to band together-this is the only way 

[mfd101]

17 minutes ago, Redline said:

It’s time to confront China before they get too powerful, which is happening at an alarming pace.  USA, Europe, India, Japan, Canada, Australia... need to band together-this is the only way 

Too late already. With Trump in the White House, distrustful allies are slowly edging away from Usofa and Third World countries have long since given up the old model of Usofa as cultural attractor and are now sucking up to China with its bottomless barrel of money ...

 

Usofa remains the dominant world power, though not by much, and its prestige is rapidly weakening. China too has major vulnerabilities - economic & ethno-political internally - but so far its rise & rise is holding it all together.

 

We'll know the outcome in about 20 years. It may be a rocky ride for everyone, and particularly for those of us who live in the neightbourhood.

[spidermike007]

52 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Too late already. With Trump in the White House, distrustful allies are slowly edging away from Usofa and Third World countries have long since given up the old model of Usofa as cultural attractor and are now sucking up to China with its bottomless barrel of money ...

 

Usofa remains the dominant world power, though not by much, and its prestige is rapidly weakening. China too has major vulnerabilities - economic & ethno-political internally - but so far its rise & rise is holding it all together.

 

We'll know the outcome in about 20 years. It may be a rocky ride for everyone, and particularly for those of us who live in the neightbourhood.

 

Though the US can still call itself the world's greatest power, the hold on that position is tenuous at best, and mostly reinforced by it's $700,000,000,000 annual military budget. If you compare the numbers, China even with it slowdown has an economy that it growing at double the rate of the US, and is sitting on $4 trillion in cash, compared to the $25 to $30 trillion the US has in debt (by an order that Cheney managed to pass at that time, the entire expense of both the Iraq and the disastrous Afghan campaigns did not have to be included in both the annual budgets, nor the accumulated deficit. So, add $4 to $8 trillion to whatever figure you are using to calculate the total accumulated US debt. The US is weak. Very weak, and thanks to the tangerine tornado getting weaker by the day. Tiny Don. Not making America great again. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by spidermike007

[Tug]

Trump definitely weakens Taiwan’s position China is playing chess whereas Donald is playing checkers if he can keep his attention long enough lol I’m sure there are people here that know the score but unfortunately Donald plays by his gut not by expert advice 

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Redline said:

It’s time to confront China before they get too powerful, which is happening at an alarming pace.  USA, Europe, India, Japan, Canada, Australia... need to band together-this is the only way 

Whatever the advisability of this may be, given that Trump is also waging economic warfare on the USA's allies (former allies?), it seems unlikely many would enlist themselves in such a fight.

[SOTIRIOS]

...what sense does it make to effectively... 'deny and betray one's heritage'....

 

...idiotic and disgraceful....

 

...China doesn't need to erase anything...

 

...so don't invite a foreign power in to be your master......

 

 

[Tailwagsdog]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

China, being the despot nation it is, wants to eventually control the world. The way they see it, is they simply want to reclaim their rightful place in history. Especially during the Han, Ming, Tang and Qing dynasties. Not only was China one of the most powerful nations on earth at that time, but during much of that period they were the most powerful nation in Asia. All they are trying to do is to get back to that place, of absolute control. They will stop at nothing to achieve that end. And unlike the West, they have a long term plan. Taiwan is right to assert their independence. They became independent at a horrific time in Chinese history, and they have no interest in being under Chinese control. China treats them as a threat, knows they are an economic powerhouse, and is behaving like a true despot, with regard to Taiwan and the entire South China Sea. It is only the beginning of a decades long battle over supremacy. Now that they are as powerful as they are, both from a military and from an economic point of view, they feel they have leverage. And they intend to use it! They are not to be trusted. Not the Chinese government. I have no issues with the people. Their government is heinous, corrupt and ruthless. And many nations in Africa, and SE Asia are already under an increasing amount of Chinese control, or influence. 

While i agree, one must not forget it was Taiwanese companies that invested in China at the beginning and got the ball rolling on their economy. Anyway most people i meet from Taiwan refer to themselves as Taiwanese, and the other thing, with a 1 China policy who says the unelected junta in Beijing must prevail.

[Tailwagsdog]

11 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...what sense does it make to effectively... 'deny and betray one's heritage'....

 

...idiotic and disgraceful....

 

...China doesn't need to erase anything...

 

...so don't invite a foreign power in to be your master......

 

 

The Taiwanese regard the unelected dictatorship in Beijing to be a foreign, alien, war mongering bunch of fascists just in case you are having trouble understanding the issue, by he way read your history not your propaganda, Formosa was not China. 

[Kiwiken]

Formosa was not part of China. An indeed the Chinese dynasties had little interest until the Portugese set up a traing post there in the 1600's . Taiwan as we know only came about thru the KMT fleeing there in 1949. Taiwan is not Chinese an China is a foreign threat

[Oziex1]

While the Australian government warns us of the terrifying terrorists who would steal our freedom, they and all Australian political parties are happily taking donations from foreign entities. It simply defies belief.

[tonbridgebrit]

17 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Formosa was not part of China. An indeed the Chinese dynasties had little interest until the Portugese set up a traing post there in the 1600's . Taiwan as we know only came about thru the KMT fleeing there in 1949. Taiwan is not Chinese an China is a foreign threat

This comment is funny.  ?

Actually, it was 1947 when the KMT fled to Taiwan. 
Okay, let's look at history. In 1945, Japan lost World War Two and handed Taiwan back to China. In 1945, there was one nation on planet earth, called the "Republic of China", and it was made up of mainland China and the island of Formosa/Taiwan. In 1947, yes, the KMT fled from mainland China to the island of Formosa/Taiwan, that's because they was losing the civil war in China.

You do accept don't you, when Chiang Kai Shek and the KMT moved from mainland China to Taiwan, they was not "leaving a country, and going to a another country" ???  They was actually moving from one part of China (Republic of China) to another part of China (Republic of China) .

Yes, in 1949, Mao Zedong declared that China's new name would be Peoples' Republic of China. And Taiwan ?  Taiwan continued to be called the Republic of China. Taiwan today is actually called "Republic of China, Taiwan". Prior to 1949, if it was okay for Mao to take land in mainland China as part of a civil war, surely, it would have been okay for him to take the island of Formosa/Taiwan ?

Prior to 1949, what was the difference between Mao taking mainland China and if Mao had of attacked Taiwan ? There was no difference. That's because, prior to 1949, mainland China and Taiwan were both in the same country, a country called "Republic of China".

Edited August 14, 2018 by tonbridgebrit

[Ramen087]

59 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

This comment is funny.  ?

Actually, it was 1947 when the KMT fled to Taiwan. 
Okay, let's look at history. In 1945, Japan lost World War Two and handed Taiwan back to China. In 1945, there was one nation on planet earth, called the "Republic of China", and it was made up of mainland China and the island of Formosa/Taiwan. In 1947, yes, the KMT fled from mainland China to the island of Formosa/Taiwan, that's because they was losing the civil war in China.

You do accept don't you, when Chiang Kai Shek and the KMT moved from mainland China to Taiwan, they was not "leaving a country, and going to a another country" ???  They was actually moving from one part of China (Republic of China) to another part of China (Republic of China) .

Yes, in 1949, Mao Zedong declared that China's new name would be Peoples' Republic of China. And Taiwan ?  Taiwan continued to be called the Republic of China. Taiwan today is actually called "Republic of China, Taiwan". Prior to 1949, if it was okay for Mao to take land in mainland China as part of a civil war, surely, it would have been okay for him to take the island of Formosa/Taiwan ?

Prior to 1949, what was the difference between Mao taking mainland China and if Mao had of attacked Taiwan ? There was no difference. That's because, prior to 1949, mainland China and Taiwan were both in the same country, a country called "Republic of China".

Yeah, but many of those living in Taiwan, or as some refer to it 'Chinese Taipei', see a very clear distinction between being Chinese or Taiwanese, and that goes deep into their consciousness and includes a national identity.

[Kiwiken]

5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

This comment is funny.  ?

Actually, it was 1947 when the KMT fled to Taiwan. 
Okay, let's look at history. In 1945, Japan lost World War Two and handed Taiwan back to China. In 1945, there was one nation on planet earth, called the "Republic of China", and it was made up of mainland China and the island of Formosa/Taiwan. In 1947, yes, the KMT fled from mainland China to the island of Formosa/Taiwan, that's because they was losing the civil war in China.

You do accept don't you, when Chiang Kai Shek and the KMT moved from mainland China to Taiwan, they was not "leaving a country, and going to a another country" ???  They was actually moving from one part of China (Republic of China) to another part of China (Republic of China) .

Yes, in 1949, Mao Zedong declared that China's new name would be Peoples' Republic of China. And Taiwan ?  Taiwan continued to be called the Republic of China. Taiwan today is actually called "Republic of China, Taiwan". Prior to 1949, if it was okay for Mao to take land in mainland China as part of a civil war, surely, it would have been okay for him to take the island of Formosa/Taiwan ?

Prior to 1949, what was the difference between Mao taking mainland China and if Mao had of attacked Taiwan ? There was no difference. That's because, prior to 1949, mainland China and Taiwan were both in the same country, a country called "Republic of China".

In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland. quote on Google. As i said Taiwan (formosa) was not part of china before the 1600's an only intermittently up until 1949.

The Hill people of Formosa the Native people (also relate to the NZ Maori an Polynesian people) 

So by your efinition China has the right then to annex the South Pacific? An New Zealand. And because of migration take over Se Asia as most populations came out of China. "Really"?

[Tailwagsdog]

On 8/14/2018 at 8:20 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

This comment is funny.  ?

Actually, it was 1947 when the KMT fled to Taiwan. 
Okay, let's look at history. In 1945, Japan lost World War Two and handed Taiwan back to China. In 1945, there was one nation on planet earth, called the "Republic of China", and it was made up of mainland China and the island of Formosa/Taiwan. In 1947, yes, the KMT fled from mainland China to the island of Formosa/Taiwan, that's because they was losing the civil war in China.

You do accept don't you, when Chiang Kai Shek and the KMT moved from mainland China to Taiwan, they was not "leaving a country, and going to a another country" ???  They was actually moving from one part of China (Republic of China) to another part of China (Republic of China) .

Yes, in 1949, Mao Zedong declared that China's new name would be Peoples' Republic of China. And Taiwan ?  Taiwan continued to be called the Republic of China. Taiwan today is actually called "Republic of China, Taiwan". Prior to 1949, if it was okay for Mao to take land in mainland China as part of a civil war, surely, it would have been okay for him to take the island of Formosa/Taiwan ?

Prior to 1949, what was the difference between Mao taking mainland China and if Mao had of attacked Taiwan ? There was no difference. That's because, prior to 1949, mainland China and Taiwan were both in the same country, a country called "Republic of China".

This comment is hilarious and full of Beijing CCCP non sense. What makes you even think a dictatorship that has murdered more of its own people than any foreign power ever has, has any  legitimacy to govern China. The Beijing Boys are power hungry & corrupt, time to FREE CHINA, Taiwan is an example of what FREE CHINA could be like

[tonbridgebrit]

On 8/14/2018 at 4:33 PM, Kiwiken said:

In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland. quote on Google. As i said Taiwan (formosa) was not part of china before the 1600's an only intermittently up until 1949.

The Hill people of Formosa the Native people (also relate to the NZ Maori an Polynesian people) 

So by your efinition China has the right then to annex the South Pacific? An New Zealand. And because of migration take over Se Asia as most populations came out of China. "Really"?

Actually, you're right, Chang Kai Shek fled to Taiwan in 1949, not 1947.  ?

But the point about how, between 1945 and 1949, there was a single nation called the Republic of China, and it was made up of mainland China and Taiwan, still stands. You write about how "Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland". I do love this comment !  So, would it have been okay for Chang Kai Shek to attack the Peoples' Republic of China, after 1949 ?  So, Mao Zedong and Chang Kai Shek fighting each other in mainland China (Republic of China) , before 1949, that's okay, that's called a Chinese civil war. We all agree on that. What about Mao Zedong fighting Chang Kai Shek in Taiwan (Republic of China) before 1949, was that okay ? In my opinion, fighting in mainland China and Taiwan, prior to 1949, it would have been the same thing.
What about Chang Kai Shek fighting Mao Zedong in Peoples' Republic of China (mainland China) after 1949, would that have been okay ? What about Chang Kai Shek fighting Mao in Republic of China (Taiwan) after 1949 ?  So, it was okay for them to fight each other in mainland China, but it was not okay to fight in Taiwan, after 1949 ?   ?


And heres a link from wikipedia.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#Qing_rule
China (Qing China) annexed Taiwan in the late 1600s, Japan took Taiwan from China in the late 1890s. This was done after Japan beat China in a war. Mainland China and Taiwan were in the same country for two centuries prior to Japan taking Taiwan.

What's the difference between China attacking Thailand, and China attacking Taiwan ?  Thailand is not part of China, and has never been part of China. So, China attacking Thailand (or Vietnam) is a nation invading another nation. China attacking Taiwan is actually a continuation of the Chinese civil war.

Edited August 16, 2018 by tonbridgebrit

[tonbridgebrit]

22 hours ago, Tailwagsdog said:

This comment is hilarious and full of Beijing CCCP non sense. What makes you even think a dictatorship that has murdered more of its own people than any foreign power ever has, has any  legitimacy to govern China. The Beijing Boys are power hungry & corrupt, time to FREE CHINA, Taiwan is an example of what FREE CHINA could be like

Prior to 1949, there was a civil war in mainland China (Republic of China) now, do you accept that ?  Notice how the USA and the rest of the world did not send soldiers to mainland China (Republic of China) to fight in the Chinese civil war. Surely, you accept that sending US and other soldiers into mainland China, prior to 1949, would have been wrong and disastrous ?  When a country is fighting a civil war, it's wrong and it's a mistake, to send soldiers to join in.

Surely, you're not a person who reckons, it would have been a good idea to have sent US soldiers to mainland China, prior to 1949, to fight Mao Zedong ? That would have been a crazy thing to do.

Beijing governs China, and Washington today, recognises Beijing. You do realise, prior to the 1970s, Washington regarded Republic of China, Taiwan, as being the real China ?  Surely, you don't reckon, that Washington today, should regard Taiwan as the legitimate government of China ? That really would be crazy. Washington does have the freedom to regard Beijing as not being the legitimate government of China. But Washington does regard Beijing as the government of China. People might think that Washington is stupid, but they're not that stupid.  ?

[Tailwagsdog]

11 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Prior to 1949, there was a civil war in mainland China (Republic of China) now, do you accept that ?  Notice how the USA and the rest of the world did not send soldiers to mainland China (Republic of China) to fight in the Chinese civil war. Surely, you accept that sending US and other soldiers into mainland China, prior to 1949, would have been wrong and disastrous ?  When a country is fighting a civil war, it's wrong and it's a mistake, to send soldiers to join in.

Surely, you're not a person who reckons, it would have been a good idea to have sent US soldiers to mainland China, prior to 1949, to fight Mao Zedong ? That would have been a crazy thing to do.

Beijing governs China, and Washington today, recognises Beijing. You do realise, prior to the 1970s, Washington regarded Republic of China, Taiwan, as being the real China ?  Surely, you don't reckon, that Washington today, should regard Taiwan as the legitimate government of China ? That really would be crazy. Washington does have the freedom to regard Beijing as not being the legitimate government of China. But Washington does regard Beijing as the government of China. People might think that Washington is stupid, but they're not that stupid.  ?

Everybody deals with the enemy to acheive a result ask anybody with life experience, the western liberal idealists actually thought chinas economic development might actually result in progressive thinking however he Tinamen Square massacre of liberal  students should have warned them the unelected junta in Beijing will never represent the people of China, whereas the people of FREE CHINA or Taiwan elect their government & they are free to think for themselves. Have you got the idea ...yet?

[tonbridgebrit]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:21 PM, Tailwagsdog said:

Everybody deals with the enemy to acheive a result ask anybody with life experience, the western liberal idealists actually thought chinas economic development might actually result in progressive thinking however he Tinamen Square massacre of liberal  students should have warned them the unelected junta in Beijing will never represent the people of China, whereas the people of FREE CHINA or Taiwan elect their government & they are free to think for themselves. Have you got the idea ...yet?

"the western liberal idealists actually thought chinas economic development might actually result in progressive thinking".
So, if we can go back to 1981, do you think it would have been a great idea to NOT start increasing trade with China ?


Today, there is massive trade between China and the West. Do you think it will be a good idea for America and Europe to reduce trade with China ? You don't reckon do you, that Washington is actually concerned about 'lack of freedom in China' ?  Washington has allies on planet earth, some of those allies are not democracies.  Washington has a problem with China. What's the problem ? The problem is, is that China has a huge trade surplus with America and Europe. Washington is backing ( in a subtle way) the Republic of China (Taiwan) , that's Washington's way to antagonise Beijing.
Surely, you can see that ?  ?


And Trump is starting a trade war with China. You do realise, the danger here, is that the people in China will rise up in rebellion due to increased um-employment and increased poverty ?  This ewill cause a dangerous instability. The Beijing government will then, end up being removed by the people. Them people in China, they're more interested in jobs and economic prosperity, rather than freedom of speech and other freedoms.


Have you ever been to mainland China ?  You reckon that they can't think for themselves ?  Some of them are trying to enter into Britain and America. They're not doing it because they want the extra freedom that the West can give them. Those who are doing it, they're doing it because they can earn more money in Britain and America. Do you understand that ?