The Buddha Returns

[chownah]

If the Buddha returned...you know Gotama.....that one.....anyway....if the Buddha returned do you think he would be a Buddhist? If so what kind.

Chownah

[farangsay]

"Born again" ?

[lannarebirth]

If the Buddha returned...you know Gotama.....that one.....anyway....if the Buddha returned do you think he would be a Buddhist? If so what kind.

Chownah

Well, if he returns, then he wouldn't have been the Buddha or enlightened one. Given that, he might want to try something else.

[thaibebop]

I hope he would be Buddhist, the last we need is another christian movement, for or against anything.

[suegha]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

Edited February 9, 2007 by suegha

[Grover]

chownah, just so you don't give people here the wrong idea, from a Buddhist point of view it is technically impossible for the Buddha to return, because he has gone beyond the cycle of birth and rebirth & can't come back (which is one of the very few ways to define full enlightenment).

[thaibebop]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

[IMA_FARANG]

If the Buddha returned...you know Gotama.....that one.....anyway....if the Buddha returned do you think he would be a Buddhist? If so what kind.

Chownah

Perhaps the correct question is that if the Buddha returned now would you be able to know him?

Each thing has it's own true nature, but only those whose eyes are truly open can see that true nature.

So if the Buddha appeared before you now, could you recognize his true Buddha nature?

All other questions are irrelevant, are they not?

[banchang]

I think the big question would be if he did return what would he have to do to convince you he had?

ditto this for any other god that may want to nip back in a bodily form.

[sutnyod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya

[khaojao]

if gotama returned right now, in the flesh, he would be a liar.

he would have contridicted all his teachings

[Goshawk]

Ponder this one y'all...

" Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. "

[lannarebirth]

Ponder this one y'all...

" Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. "

Unfortunately, when the clouds started attacking him, he lost his train of thought.

[suegha]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

[banchang]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

Can i join you for that beer too. I realy want someone to prove the existance of god to me, I keep looking but he just isnt there for me

ps can i try that tiger tomyam in your avatar , looks like it has some bite

[thaibebop]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

Yes, it would. I love a good conversation, even better with beer!!

[suegha]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

Yes, it would. I love a good conversation, even better with beer!!

Amen (let it be so!)

[tijnebijn]

If you are pretty serious,which i doubt.It is like this the actual buddha wasn't Siddartha at all.

The spirit of the spiritual world leader overshadowed siddartha in that life,whereas he became enlightened.

For as now there seem to be a new world spriritual leader or master named Matreya.

If you want you could call him the buddha,but if somebody is really interesting about this you could read Benjamin's Cremes books or just visit the website on this.it is really interesting,also maye not to understandable for many.

[suegha]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

Can i join you for that beer too. I realy want someone to prove the existance of god to me, I keep looking but he just isnt there for me

ps can i try that tiger tomyam in your avatar , looks like it has some bite

It would be great for us to have a beer (maybe with bobs as well), however, I would never endeavour to 'prove' the existance of God to anyone. I believe you must find that (belief) for yourself, and it does depend on how you look!

ps Don't know what you mean about the tiger tomyam.

[banchang]

Yo bops, you are 'unreasonable' in your opposition to Christianity! I'd love to talk with you about what real Christianity is, I think you'd be interested...

ps May God bless you in your quest for the truth!

I think you and I would agree on many points, my friend. I just don't see people practicing it. In America many of the "faithful" have drawn lines in the sand and said you are either with us or against us ( sound familiar? ) and thus I and many like me can't help but take the other side. So, they want us for enemies, then they have us.

I try not to act this way, or think this way, yet I find sometimes I jsut have to make a comment or two just to release dome pressure. I work with so many people who are superfaithful and out to conquer all in the name of god. It takes all I have learned from Buddhism to keep quiet and respect them. So, please know that if I say something here I am not really being as nasty as you think. I am just blowing steam that I can't at work.

I do understand my friend. God willing, maybe one day we'll meet and have a long philisophical coversation over a few beers. Now that would be nice...

Can i join you for that beer too. I realy want someone to prove the existance of god to me, I keep looking but he just isnt there for me

ps can i try that tiger tomyam in your avatar , looks like it has some bite

It would be great for us to have a beer (maybe with bobs as well), however, I would never endeavour to 'prove' the existance of God to anyone. I believe you must find that (belief) for yourself, and it does depend on how you look!

ps Don't know what you mean about the tiger tomyam.

Is it just me or did I see three tigers swiming round a tank in your avatar! its not there now.

As for "belief "im guite happy without any but im realy interested to talk to people that do belive, it is so often the subject that you cant discus in a bar or at dinner parties and from my background it has come as quite a shock as to the extent and depth of belife. I realy cant think of any friends or family that would not be agnostic or athiest.

[suegha]

Different version of my avatar.

If you haven't got any family or friends who are believers this is a shame. It's also a shame that you can't find anyone to discuss their beliefs with you. However, many believers get defensive when in conversation with non-believers, I think this shows a weakness in their faith. I respect others views and their right not to believe. I have many a fruitful conversation with like minded (respectful) people. The only types that I find irksome are those who are 'evengelical' in their unbelief...

[Grover]

i smell the dukkha in this thread

[suegha]

i smell the dukkha in this thread

You must have stepped in some!

[Grover]

i dont want my leg bitten off !

[camerata]

As for "belief "im guite happy without any but im realy interested to talk to people that do belive, it is so often the subject that you cant discus in a bar or at dinner parties and from my background it has come as quite a shock as to the extent and depth of belife. I realy cant think of any friends or family that would not be agnostic or athiest.

Fortunately, belief of the "blind faith" sort isn't required of Buddhists. You just take the teachings as a working hypothesis to be proven.

[camerata]

If the Buddha returned...you know Gotama.....that one.....anyway....if the Buddha returned do you think he would be a Buddhist? If so what kind.

Chownah

Or perhaps we should ask what the next Buddha, Metteyya (Skt: Maitreya), will be like and how he will teach.

Although he plays a significant role in Mahayana, he is only mentioned once in the Pali Canon:

[The Buddha:] And in that time of the people with an eighty-thousand-year life-span, there will arise in the world a Blessed Lord, an arahant fully enlightened Buddha named Metteyya, endowed with wisdom and conduct, a Well-farer, Knower of the worlds, incomparable Trainer of men to be tamed, Teacher of gods and humans, enlightened and blessed, just as I am now.

I think it was a reasonable extrapolation that the teachings would disappear from the world (as they pretty much did from India) and that eventually - much later - another Buddha would arise and re-discover them. But I wonder what state the world will be in then and what the human species will be like?

And just to show how wacky and distorted messianic Buddhism can get, here's an article about a guy who claimed to be the Buddha-to-be. The year is 515, in northern China:

The Mahayana Rebellion. In the late summer of that year, the renegade monk Faqing married a nun and formed a sect in the Northern Wei province of Jizhou (in the southern part of today’s Hebei province) with the assistance of a local aristocrat named Li Guibo. The sect was named the Mahayana ("The Great Vehicle", in reference to Mahayana Buddhism), and Li Guibo was given the titles of "Tenth-stage Bodhisattva, Commander of the Demon-vanquishing Army," and "King who Pacifies the Land of Han by Faqing."

Using drugs to send its members into a killing frenzy, and promoting them to Tenth-Stage Bodhisattva as soon as they killed ten enemies, the Mahayana sect seized a prefecture and murdered all the government officials in it. Their slogan was "A new Buddha has entered the world; eradicate the demons of the former age", and they would kill all monks and nuns in the monasteries that they captured, also burning all the sutras and icons. After defeating a government army and growing to a size of over 50,000, the rebel army was finally crushed by another government army of 100,000. Faqing, his wife, and tens of thousands of his followers were beheaded, and Li Guibo was also captured later and publicly executed in the capital city Luoyang.

[Grover]

And just to show how wacky and distorted messianic Buddhism can get, here's an article about a guy who claimed to be the Buddha-to-be. The year is 515, in northern China:

The Mahayana Rebellion. In the late summer of that year, the renegade monk Faqing married a nun and formed a sect in the Northern Wei province of Jizhou (in the southern part of today’s Hebei province) with the assistance of a local aristocrat named Li Guibo. The sect was named the Mahayana ("The Great Vehicle", in reference to Mahayana Buddhism), and Li Guibo was given the titles of "Tenth-stage Bodhisattva, Commander of the Demon-vanquishing Army," and "King who Pacifies the Land of Han by Faqing."

Using drugs to send its members into a killing frenzy, and promoting them to Tenth-Stage Bodhisattva as soon as they killed ten enemies, the Mahayana sect seized a prefecture and murdered all the government officials in it. Their slogan was "A new Buddha has entered the world; eradicate the demons of the former age", and they would kill all monks and nuns in the monasteries that they captured, also burning all the sutras and icons. After defeating a government army and growing to a size of over 50,000, the rebel army was finally crushed by another government army of 100,000. Faqing, his wife, and tens of thousands of his followers were beheaded, and Li Guibo was also captured later and publicly executed in the capital city Luoyang.

unbelievable.

sounds like a good plot for a japanese manga though.

[thaibebop]

As for "belief "im guite happy without any but im realy interested to talk to people that do belive, it is so often the subject that you cant discus in a bar or at dinner parties and from my background it has come as quite a shock as to the extent and depth of belife. I realy cant think of any friends or family that would not be agnostic or athiest.

Fortunately, belief of the "blind faith" sort isn't required of Buddhists. You just take the teachings as a working hypothesis to be proven.

I have found more and more people treating it as such. More of the western Buddhist I come across treat Buddhism just like they would Christianity, prayer over everything and testing the faith in their new found difference. So, while Buddhism doesn't demand it, people can create it.

[banchang]

As for "belief "im guite happy without any but im realy interested to talk to people that do belive, it is so often the subject that you cant discus in a bar or at dinner parties and from my background it has come as quite a shock as to the extent and depth of belife. I realy cant think of any friends or family that would not be agnostic or athiest.

Fortunately, belief of the "blind faith" sort isn't required of Buddhists. You just take the teachings as a working hypothesis to be proven.

Maybe this is why so many westeners like the idea of Buddhism

[IMA_FARANG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya

Since you are the one who put the link into this discussion I'll risk putting in a story.

First of all, my Buddhist training has been in Maitreya and specifically Zen.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone, I mean no offense to anyone.

Just let me give you this story,

Once there was a young monk, who studied in many temples.

He heard of another temple, especially renowned, and he decided to go there.

He was traveling on an deserted road to this temple, when he saw a Bodhi tree beside the road. Underneath the tree was an old man. He approached the old man, and suddenly realized it was the Buddha returned. He fell to the ground, but the old man spoke to him kindly, and asked him to approach.

The old man said, "There is someone now in Nirvana, who once lived in his time on earth. When you travel around that bend in the road you will come to a small path that leads off into the brush. Not far down that path is a stream with fresh water. Near that stream there is a small hut where that man lived. If you start yourself a temple, and teach the doctrine of the Buddha, you will in time get many followers and students to study under you. Fifty years later, when you are old, I will return to you to take you to Nirvana, as I did that other man."

The young man took that path, found that stream, and built that temple. After a little time the temple became quite famous and renouned. The young man unfortunately, was soon caught up in the affairs of that temple. He always had something do.

One day almost 50 years later he realized that the day the Buddha promised to return to take him to Nirvana was almost upon him. He couldn't let the Buddha visit his temple without cleaning it up and preparing a grand meal. So he had all his monks and novices begin to prepare for the great visit.

On the day the Buddha was supposed to arrive, the old man gazed anxiously out the front gate and down the path. No one was coming.

Then an old beggar appeared coming up to the gate. It was a well known thing for this temple to feed any poor and aged begger that asked for food, so the old man told the begger to go back to the temple kitchen, if he wanted to eat. The begger said nothing, but began to go back to the kitchen. Under his breath he said," What a pity, he recognised me so clearly all those many years ago, before he became entangled in the other matters of this world".

And that is the story.