Thaksin Moving To Australia?!?!

[Plus]

He's confusing things on purpose in case AEC quotes him later on. Also note that he defended the sale as if he had done it himself, which would be illegal for the then sitting PM.

Also note that both the interviewer and Thaksin failed to mention hundreds of thousands of people protesting against him for months on end and the subsequent "No" vote. They made the impression he was overthrown by "elite" only.

Millions of people around the country said "about time" on the morning of September 19.

Perhaps it's the latest strategy - downplay popular discontent with his rule and focus on the generals only and never mention that the coup had 75% support.

[Artisi]

"Also note that both the interviewer and Thaksin failed to mention hundreds of thousands of people protesting against him for months on end and the subsequent "No" vote. They made the impression he was overthrown by "elite" only. "

Not entirely correct, the lead up to the interview gave a fairly accurate precise of the events prior to the overthough including the opposition parties refusing to field candidates in the last election. Sure the lead up to the interview could have been more in depth but that wasn't that the programme was about - it was an interview with Thaksin.

[John K]

After looking at the transcript of the interview, a few of the questions would have seen the little X sign. I wonder if Thaksin is weighing doing more interviews, the honeymoon appears over and the friendly questions history. I can’t help but wonder if he tried to get the reporter fired for asking questions he did not approve.

[younghusband]

He's confusing things on purpose in case AEC quotes him later on. Also note that he defended the sale as if he had done it himself, which would be illegal for the then sitting PM.

Also note that both the interviewer and Thaksin failed to mention hundreds of thousands of people protesting against him for months on end and the subsequent "No" vote. They made the impression he was overthrown by "elite" only.

Millions of people around the country said "about time" on the morning of September 19.

Perhaps it's the latest strategy - downplay popular discontent with his rule and focus on the generals only and never mention that the coup had 75% support.

The 75 % figure is just a product of your fevered imagination.In fact, the more thoughtful proponents of the coup (broadly speaking those democrats who saw no other way of clearing the log jam) recognise and agonise over the fact that the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.But as the German Nazi propaganda chief Goebbels once said if you are going to lie, then go for the big lie.

[Khutan]

....THAKSIN: Yes. I think.... I like to buy houses in different countries - for example I ask my friend to look for a house in Sydney, especially in the Eastern Suburbs.....

Link to transcript of Foreign Correspondent programme

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2007/s1847557.htm

Umm isn't there a Back-Packers place in Bondi That would save him a lot of money and he could meet some more influential people. After all Bondi is as Eastern Suburbs as you can get.

A quick "Google" will show many Thai Restaurants, and some are quite close to Centerlink

[Grover]

VATSIKOPOULOS: Dr Thaksin Shinawatra, thank you very much.

THAKSIN: Thank you very much Helen. Thank you for interviewing me, thank you.

Link to transcript of Foreign Correspondent programme

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2007/s1847557.htm

These are the closing statements of the interview. For those who didn't see the interview - Thaksin was at his ass-kissing best here. He put a "charming smile" , overly thanked and there was even a pleading expression on his face as if to say "maybe if I smile nicely enough and kiss your ass a bit, you and your viewers will get the impression im really, truly a nice guy"

[JacknDanny]

He's confusing things on purpose in case AEC quotes him later on. Also note that he defended the sale as if he had done it himself, which would be illegal for the then sitting PM.

Also note that both the interviewer and Thaksin failed to mention hundreds of thousands of people protesting against him for months on end and the subsequent "No" vote. They made the impression he was overthrown by "elite" only.

Millions of people around the country said "about time" on the morning of September 19.

Perhaps it's the latest strategy - downplay popular discontent with his rule and focus on the generals only and never mention that the coup had 75% support.

The 75 % figure is just a product of your fevered imagination.In fact, the more thoughtful proponents of the coup (broadly speaking those democrats who saw no other way of clearing the log jam) recognise and agonise over the fact that the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.But as the German Nazi propaganda chief Goebbels once said if you are going to lie, then go for the big lie.

Total <deleted> again younghusband.

First of all why should Plus have a fevered mind just because he differs with your opinion??

Secondly, kindly back up your statement that 'the more thoughtful proponents of the coup recognise and agonise over the fact that the coup was and remains opposed(to) (sic) by most Thais'.

As I said total <deleted>. You should start speech writing for Thaksin!!!

[sriracha john]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

[JacknDanny]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

"Silence is golden, when you cannot think of an answer"

[sriracha john]

Transcript

This is a transcript from Correspondents Report. The program is broadcast around Australia on Sundays at 08:00 on ABC Radio National.

You can also listen to the story in REAL AUDIO format:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200702/r127116_415571.ram

and WINDOWS MEDIA format:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200702/r127116_415573.asx

Former Thai PM house hunts in Sydney

Reporter: Karen Percy

ELIZABETH JACKSON: Thailand's former Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, has been enjoying the sun and sand down under this week, as he plays golf and visits friends.

He's also in the market for a house and has Sydney's Eastern Suburbs in mind.

But while Thaksin Shinawatra might want to call Australia home, he's unlikely to call Thailand home for some time yet.

The military junta that deposed him in September is still determined to keep him out.

Our South East Asia Correspondent, Karen Percy, reports.

KAREN PERCY: Since being forced out of office in September's military coup, Thaksin Shinawatra has had time on his hands, and he's been travelling the region.

Sydney, Melbourne and Perth were on the itinerary this week.

During a lengthy interview with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation while in the harbour city, the former prime minister spoke of his past and his future, and threw in some advice for Thailand's military junta as well.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: Don't worry about me. If they take good care of the people, it means that that much the King and the Queen will be very happy, because they love their people.

KAREN PERCY: Despite being toppled from power, Mr Thaksin can still claim to be Thailand's most successful elected leader.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: Democracy in Thailand has been developed from baby to adolescence, to teenager. It's growing to be a mature person, but it's happened to fall down. When you fall down at that age, you strong enough when you come back. You can stand back and you have moved forward. You are not turning back to baby again because you are strong enough.

So, I think, after this year, the regime have to return the power back to the people, because Thai people love democracy, freedom and liberty.

KAREN PERCY: The generals behind the coup say they acted to end the divisions within the country, which they say were caused by Mr Thaksin. That's something the former leader denies.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: Maybe some elite, they enjoy weak politics; they enjoy interest benefit from me having weak politics.

So, I don't know. But I think that the divisive has been created, not by me, by those who want to trouble me.

KAREN PERCY: He says the elite of Bangkok didn't like him because he was too strong and because helped the poor and working classes.

Mr Thaksin says he's proud of his efforts to assist lower income earners. He made affordable health care available to all Thais and provided loans to farmers and businesses in rural areas.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: Too much big gaps is dangerous, it's dangerous so, I tried to bridge the gap.

KAREN PERCY: But a Washington based think-thank, Business Executives For National Security, describes Thailand as having one of the highest levels of income inequality in the world, with the poorest 20 per cent of the population earning under 5 per cent of the nation's income, while the top 20 per cent earn almost two third's of the nation's income.

Thaksin Shinawatra's told the ABC that he wants to continue to work with the poor, and is considering a research role in academia.

His future will also include more philanthropy, in light of the billions of dollars he and his family received in the tax-free sale of their telecommunications firm Shin Corporation.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: They may ask the family to pay, but if they ask to pay, we'll pay, but we have to protect our right that, by law, we don't have to pay. Why do we have to pay?

But we may spend that money in more charitable activities.

KAREN PERCY: The former leader says by not paying tax, he's maintaining the integrity of the system.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: We have to keep the principle, otherwise the whole principle has collapsed and who's going to trust your system?

Let the system be a system that is trusted worldwide, otherwise no one will want to invest in Thailand.

KAREN PERCY: There are several ongoing investigations into the Shin Corp sale, which took place just over a year ago and was the beginning of the end of Mr Thaksin's time in office.

The fact that the company was purchased by Singapore government interests led many Thais to question Mr Thaksin's loyalty.

Since starting his new life in exile, Mr Thaksin's spent a lot of time and money trying to counter allegations of corruption and cronyism.

He says nobody should be surprised that many of his friends and relations are in the two million-strong public service in Thailand. He says that's because he comes from a large family. As well, he says, he's got deep and long-term ties with the police force.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: I'm the Prime Minister at 51, you know, and ousted at 57. Six years, so my classmates, my family, themselves in the government officials, they happen to grow up and they age.

I'm very strict to the principle, if you look at all the qualifications, it's according to law.

KAREN PERCY: The allegations against the former prime minister have been coming thick and fast in recent weeks because of the many problems that have been revealed at the brand new Bangkok airport.

There are cracks in the taxiways and runways, and there are many problems inside the terminals too.

Thaksin Shinawatra pushed the project aggressively when he was in office, and insisted that it be opened just in time for October's election, a poll that was ultimately cancelled because of the military takeover.

And it's pretty clear now that the $4 billion facility wasn't anywhere near ready.

There's talk of corrupt deals, bribery and a business culture where contractors used substandard materials were used to maintain profits.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: There might be some corruption, but I cannot go into everything in detail as a Prime Minister.

KAREN PERCY: The government that replaced Thaksin Shinawatra has been working hard to restore relations with the people who live in the country's three southernmost provinces, where insurgents and Muslim militants have spent the past few years in intense battles against the military.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: They are killing innocent people. Can you just stay there and do nothing? You have to arrest. You have to do it.

KAREN PERCY: Mr Thaksin says he did not overreact in dealing with the violence in the south

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: I used the concept of both iron fist and whethered cloth.

KAREN PERCY: The current Prime Minister, Surayud Chulanont, this week expressed frustration at the slow pace of progress in the south.

The new government has apologised for the Tak Bai massacre of 2004, where more than 80 people were crushed when they were arrested and piled into a truck.

The families are now being compensated.

Mr Thaksin says he's not responsible, instead, he says, it was negligence.

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: They don't have enough trucks, and it's been supervised by low-ranking officials, and they're just trying to protect themselves, not being pushed down into the trucks, so they stack them up.

That is very bad.

KAREN PERCY: This interview with Mr Thaksin hasn't provoked the strong outcry that others have in recent months, perhaps because the generals are trying to look a little less paranoid and less thin-skinned.

But they remain concerned about his influence both inside and outside of Thailand, and as a result they're putting great efforts into countering his message and reinforcing their own.

They worry that Thais might start to believe what they and many others see as Mr Thaksin's rewriting of history.

This is Karen Percy for Correspondents Report.

[sriracha john]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

<- inflammatory insults snipped - >

So, in other words... your assertion is based upon what? Your circle of Thai friends and associates?

If so, then it contrasts starkly with what my own circle's viewpoints were and still are. Certainly not all are pleased completely with how things have developed, but they still are willing to give the coup more time in accordance with their stated timelines.

If it's based on anything more objective, I'd be willing to hear about it.

[JacknDanny]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

I have ignored your little English yobbo friend, Jack n'Danny with his "total &lt;deleted&gt;" comment.When he learns some manners I will address his concerns, but I can see from his struggle with grammar and syntax that he is unlikely ever to be able to communicate with ease.

So still no answer to the question!!!

younghusband is it possible to use this forum without 1) Flaming

2) Being Condescending ?

It doesnt upset me, but it may upset others

[sriracha john]

No one knows

I'll go along with that much.

[sriracha john]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

<- inflammatory insults snipped - >

So, in other words... your assertion is based upon what? Your circle of Thai friends and associates?

If so, then it contrasts starkly with what my own circle's viewpoints were and still are. Certainly not all are pleased completely with how things have developed, but they still are willing to give the coup more time in accordance with their stated timelines.

If it's based on anything more objective, I'd be willing to hear about it.

It's a pointless discussion because clearly there is a significant element of subjectivity and you and your posse don't seem comfortable with the concept of a proper debate.In Bangkok obviously there was considerable support for the coup and outside considerable opposition.You say you rely on your own circle's viewpoint although you do not say what your circle is.The most obvious piece of evidence is that the power elite recognised Thaksin would easily win a national election, and took steps accordingly.

Actually, it's simply to say your circle is no less or no more valid than any other circle.

Edited February 19, 2007 by sriracha john

[Grover]

At the time, I think most Thais were simply relieved by the fact that the coup diffused the boiling point political tension. No one likes it when their country is divided and brought to boiling point.. Most sabai sabai Thais (and thats most of them) were probably relieved more than anything else. In this sense the 75% poll results don't surprise me at all.

[younghusband]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

<- inflammatory insults snipped - >

So, in other words... your assertion is based upon what? Your circle of Thai friends and associates?

If so, then it contrasts starkly with what my own circle's viewpoints were and still are. Certainly not all are pleased completely with how things have developed, but they still are willing to give the coup more time in accordance with their stated timelines.

If it's based on anything more objective, I'd be willing to hear about it.

It's a pointless discussion because clearly there is a significant element of subjectivity and you and your posse don't seem comfortable with the concept of a proper debate.In Bangkok obviously there was considerable support for the coup and outside considerable opposition.You say you rely on your own circle's viewpoint although you do not say what your circle is.The most obvious piece of evidence is that the power elite recognised Thaksin would easily win a national election, and took steps accordingly.

Actually, it's simply to say your circle is no less or no more valid than any other circle.

Actually that's not really true.Firstly I don't pay much emphasis to the views of my circle of Thai friends, which is I suspect is mainly pro coup.They are almost all Bangkok middle class professionals and I would say mostly feel badly let down now.Secondly, some foreigners' circles are clearly much more representative of Thai national feeling than others.

The poster (Plus I think) who claimed 75% was in favour of the coup was plainly over the top.You haven't made any extravagant claims but you question my position that the majority was against.I think you are wrong and I would suggest most commentators would support me, but it is a very subjective issue and who knows you may be right.The point I would want to make however is that even if a significant majority supported the coup, it would still be a retrograde step for the country.

[Grover]

The 75 % figure is just a product of your fevered imagination.

<snip>

the quotes are all in context - nice backflip younghusband.

<snip>

but it is a very subjective issue and who knows you may be right.

<snip>

[younghusband]

The 75 % figure is just a product of your fevered imagination.

<snip>

the quotes are all in context - nice backflip younghusband.

<snip>

but it is a very subjective issue and who knows you may be right.

<snip>

Don't get your point.75% is demonstrably wrong and yes, brainfevered.When however the argument hovers around support levels of 50% and say 10% either way there's room for debate.I'm certainly not going to be dogmatic.It's probably, without wishing to be impolite, a bit beyond you but for the more serious I would recommend Chang Noi's article in today's Nation.Here's the money quote:

"How come the rural majority selects governments at the ballot box and the urban minority throws them out by protest and scandals, resulting in chronic instability?His (Anek Laothamatas's) answer (ten years ago) was that the rural electorate was trussed up by the patronage of local bosses.The solution was to tighten up rules to keep the bad guys out, and get rural issues on to the agendas of political parties".

Anek's prescription for current challenges seem very suspect to me, but dear forum fellow members have a look and think for yourselves.

Edited February 19, 2007 by younghusband

[sriracha john]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

<- inflammatory insults snipped - >

So, in other words... your assertion is based upon what? Your circle of Thai friends and associates?

If so, then it contrasts starkly with what my own circle's viewpoints were and still are. Certainly not all are pleased completely with how things have developed, but they still are willing to give the coup more time in accordance with their stated timelines.

If it's based on anything more objective, I'd be willing to hear about it.

It's a pointless discussion because clearly there is a significant element of subjectivity and you and your posse don't seem comfortable with the concept of a proper debate.In Bangkok obviously there was considerable support for the coup and outside considerable opposition.You say you rely on your own circle's viewpoint although you do not say what your circle is.The most obvious piece of evidence is that the power elite recognised Thaksin would easily win a national election, and took steps accordingly.

Actually, it's simply to say your circle is no less or no more valid than any other circle.

Actually that's not really true.Firstly I don't pay much emphasis to the views of my circle of Thai friends, which is I suspect is mainly pro coup.They are almost all Bangkok middle class professionals and I would say mostly feel badly let down now.Secondly, some foreigners' circles are clearly much more representative of Thai national feeling than others.

The poster (Plus I think) who claimed 75% was in favour of the coup was plainly over the top.You haven't made any extravagant claims but you question my position that the majority was against.I think you are wrong and I would suggest most commentators would support me, but it is a very subjective issue and who knows you may be right.The point I would want to make however is that even if a significant majority supported the coup, it would still be a retrograde step for the country.

I used the circle of associates and friends as the gauge to determine what was at issue... that is... What percentage of THAIS were in favor of the coup and still are. I simply questioned your figure of "most" (usually denoting over 50%) Thais were against it as that had not been consistent with the Thais that I "circle" with. It would even seem inconsistent with your own "circle" as well, at least initially. So I'm left wondering, just how you arrived at your conclusion that "most Thais were against the coup."

I would tend to think my "circle" anyway is fairly representative of the "Thai national feeling" as they include a cross-section of poor, middle, and upper class. Among these groups, it's easily 75% in favor.

Perhaps 75% as a nationwide figure is inaccurate, but it would seem, if our collective experiences are any indication, then clearly the majority were not against the coup.

As to whether or not it's a retrograde step remains a separate issue.

Edited February 19, 2007 by sriracha john

[John K]

Younghusband, I don’t want to sound rude or insulting by perhaps you can PM a mod and request that your name be changed from "younghusband" to "snip". I have not seen so many snips in a long time. Perhaps you can take a hint.

[Simmo]

What kind of visa for Oz does he have or does he still have a diplomatic passport?.

[younghusband]

Younghusband, I don’t want to sound rude or insulting by perhaps you can PM a mod and request that your name be changed from "younghusband" to "snip". I have not seen so many snips in a long time. Perhaps you can take a hint.

It's not rude or insulting.The moderators do a good job, and a forum like this needs to be regulated firmly.In terms of any contribution I have made to this forum, I must let others judge.What do you think is the value of your contribution?

[younghusband]

the coup was and remains opposed by most Thais.

the 75% figure as those in favor of the coup is at least based on a poll... for what they are generally worth.... but just for fun... what is your figure based on?

I wouldn't be so foolish to provide a precise figure since in Thailand it is not verifiable.Polls as you suggest don't mean a great deal in Thailand, witness the recent ABAC efforts.Subjectively I think most would agree the majority of Thais were almost certainly against the coup at the time, and one is tempted to say if they weren't then they certainly are now.Please note this does not necessarily mean most Thais were pro Thaksin.

<- inflammatory insults snipped - >

So, in other words... your assertion is based upon what? Your circle of Thai friends and associates?

If so, then it contrasts starkly with what my own circle's viewpoints were and still are. Certainly not all are pleased completely with how things have developed, but they still are willing to give the coup more time in accordance with their stated timelines.

If it's based on anything more objective, I'd be willing to hear about it.

It's a pointless discussion because clearly there is a significant element of subjectivity and you and your posse don't seem comfortable with the concept of a proper debate.In Bangkok obviously there was considerable support for the coup and outside considerable opposition.You say you rely on your own circle's viewpoint although you do not say what your circle is.The most obvious piece of evidence is that the power elite recognised Thaksin would easily win a national election, and took steps accordingly.

Actually, it's simply to say your circle is no less or no more valid than any other circle.

Actually that's not really true.Firstly I don't pay much emphasis to the views of my circle of Thai friends, which is I suspect is mainly pro coup.They are almost all Bangkok middle class professionals and I would say mostly feel badly let down now.Secondly, some foreigners' circles are clearly much more representative of Thai national feeling than others.

The poster (Plus I think) who claimed 75% was in favour of the coup was plainly over the top.You haven't made any extravagant claims but you question my position that the majority was against.I think you are wrong and I would suggest most commentators would support me, but it is a very subjective issue and who knows you may be right.The point I would want to make however is that even if a significant majority supported the coup, it would still be a retrograde step for the country.

I used the circle of associates and friends as the gauge to determine what was at issue... that is... What percentage of THAIS were in favor of the coup and still are. I simply questioned your figure of "most" (usually denoting over 50%) Thais were against it as that had not been consistent with the Thais that I "circle" with. It would even seem inconsistent with your own "circle" as well, at least initially. So I'm left wondering, just how you arrived at your conclusion that "most Thais were against the coup."

I would tend to think my "circle" anyway is fairly representative of the "Thai national feeling" as they include a cross-section of poor, middle, and upper class. Among these groups, it's easily 75% in favor.

Perhaps 75% as a nationwide figure is inaccurate, but it would seem, if our collective experiences are any indication, then clearly the majority were not against the coup.

As to whether or not it's a retrograde step remains a separate issue.

I'm sorry.I didn't appreciate your circle of friends was so representative of the Thai national feeling given the cross-section of the various social groups.Forgive my scepticism incidentally that you would know any poodee types well.I suppose given your new status as oracle of Thai society, we should just abandon serious debate and listen to your pronouncements.Nevertheless the awkward truth is that in my opinion most Thais wouldn't agree with you, but if you find the myth comforting dream on......

Thailand will roll on regardless, and let's face it , it doesn't matter a jot what you, I or anyone else on this forum thinks.

[John K]

Younghusband, I don’t want to sound rude or insulting by perhaps you can PM a mod and request that your name be changed from "younghusband" to "snip". I have not seen so many snips in a long time. Perhaps you can take a hint.

It's not rude or insulting.The moderators do a good job, and a forum like this needs to be regulated firmly.In terms of any contribution I have made to this forum, I must let others judge.What do you think is the value of your contribution?

Just merely a friendly observation from the sidelines. At times we are too close to the trees to see the forest. I think you will find most if not all of the snips related to forum rules. Last post on this from me.

[Grover]

I think its completely reasonable to say the coup has more than majority support (in the sense they are supporting not necessarily the end of the Thaksin regime but relief from the end of fierce national division brought to boiling point - which was ENDED by the coup).

Without trying to be rude younghusband, I believe most Thais would not agree with your (for reasons probably unknown to both of us) unsubstantiated subjective conclusions.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Grover

[sriracha john]

It's not rude or insulting.

I'm sorry.I didn't appreciate your circle of friends was so representative of the Thai national feeling given the cross-section of the various social groups.Forgive my scepticism incidentally that you would know any poodee types well.I suppose given your new status as oracle of Thai society, we should just abandon serious debate and listen to your pronouncements.Nevertheless the awkward truth is that in my opinion most Thais wouldn't agree with you, but if you find the myth comforting dream on......

Why is there such a conflict between two posts submitted so closely to each other???

and let's face it , it doesn't matter a jot what you, I or anyone else on this forum thinks.

Perhaps thaivisa just doesn't quite suit your needs.... whatever they may be. To continually degrade the forum and insult the many posters therein as you have, begs the question....

"Why stay?"

[younghusband]

It's not rude or insulting.

I'm sorry.I didn't appreciate your circle of friends was so representative of the Thai national feeling given the cross-section of the various social groups.Forgive my scepticism incidentally that you would know any poodee types well.I suppose given your new status as oracle of Thai society, we should just abandon serious debate and listen to your pronouncements.Nevertheless the awkward truth is that in my opinion most Thais wouldn't agree with you, but if you find the myth comforting dream on......

Why is there such a conflict between two posts submitted so closely to each other???

and let's face it , it doesn't matter a jot what you, I or anyone else on this forum thinks.

Perhaps thaivisa just doesn't quite suit your needs.... whatever they may be. To continually degrade the forum and insult the many posters therein as you have, begs the question....

"Why stay?"

You deliberately misunderstand.I was not degrading the forum at all, simply pointing out the obvious that in the larger scheme of things it doesn't really matter what foreigners think about Thai politics.The forum is in fact invaluable when there is intelligent debate with give and take.Certainly I have learnt a lot even from members I usually disagree with.The trouble with people with little formal education is that they only have one fixed point of view on most subjects and see it as a mark of failure to compromise or accept they may have not got something quite right.

I am sure you would like me to vanish from the scene for reasons which are all too obvious.I am aware you find any kind of give and take discussion a bit of a challenge.

Edited February 19, 2007 by younghusband

[younghusband]

I think its completely reasonable to say the coup has more than majority support (in the sense they are supporting not necessarily the end of the Thaksin regime but relief from the end of fierce national division brought to boiling point - which was ENDED by the coup).

Without trying to be rude younghusband, I believe most Thais would not agree with your (for reasons probably unknown to both of us) unsubstantiated subjective conclusions.

I don't agree with this but it is an entirely reasonable comment.It could be the beginning of an interesting discussion, but will it?

[sriracha john]

It's not rude or insulting.

I'm sorry.I didn't appreciate your circle of friends was so representative of the Thai national feeling given the cross-section of the various social groups.Forgive my scepticism incidentally that you would know any poodee types well.I suppose given your new status as oracle of Thai society, we should just abandon serious debate and listen to your pronouncements.Nevertheless the awkward truth is that in my opinion most Thais wouldn't agree with you, but if you find the myth comforting dream on......

Why is there such a conflict between two posts submitted so closely to each other???

and let's face it , it doesn't matter a jot what you, I or anyone else on this forum thinks.

Perhaps thaivisa just doesn't quite suit your needs.... whatever they may be. To continually degrade the forum and insult the many posters therein as you have, begs the question....

"Why stay?"

You deliberately misunderstand.I was not degrading the forum at all, simply pointing out the obvious that in the larger scheme of things it doesn't really matter what foreigners think about Thai politics.The forum is in fact invaluable when there is intelligent debate with give and take.Certainly I have learnt a lot even from members I usually disagree with.The trouble with people with little formal education is that they only have one fixed point of view on most subjects and see it as a mark of failure to compromise or accept they may have not got something quite right.

I am sure you would like me to vanish from the scene for reasons which are all too obvious.I am aware you find any kind of give and take discussion a bit of a challenge.

Whether you chose to stay or go doesn't matter to me. I was just curious as to why someone would choose to stay if they belittle the entire forum as much as your past posts have indicated.

In our exchange, I simply pointed a generalization you made that I felt was inconsistent with my own experiences and explained why. As you haven't given any explanation as to why your statement was in fact, accurate, what is there "to give and take?" I can certainly compromise and accept something contrary to my experiences if I'm given a reason to.

What I don't get.. is why you so frequently resort to insults. Not only to me but with a whole range of posters as your history clearly points out. No where in our recent exchange did I say something that insulted you, your friends, or your educational background... and yet you manage to erroneously insult all three of those areas with me in your inflammatory response.

It's no wonder why people bring your abrasiveness to the forum's attention in the preceding posts.

Edited February 19, 2007 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

I think its completely reasonable to say the coup has more than majority support (in the sense they are supporting not necessarily the end of the Thaksin regime but relief from the end of fierce national division brought to boiling point - which was ENDED by the coup).

Without trying to be rude younghusband, I believe most Thais would not agree with your (for reasons probably unknown to both of us) unsubstantiated subjective conclusions.

I think you have a serious misconception of the coup, and what comprises national division in Thailand. There are many layers of reality here, and the divisions in society are multifold. Extreme divisions beteen rich and poor are there as before, and in some ways even more aggrevated after the coup, even though you will hear very little of that openly said now in this climate of apprehension.

Other national divisions were only re-created through the military coup, its right wing nationalist nature. To understand some of those divisions i would advise you to go back to the 70s and read about the ideologies propagated by the state then, and now again, in order to protect a status quo that today is even more outdated than in those days.

Presently the stage is set for something possibly very ugly again. A lot depends on how the new constitution will look like, and if the army will retreat fast back into its position of non-interferenece in politics.

Unfortunately though, as many speaches and actions by military leaders and pro junta academics prove, this does not seem to be the case. The military is most likely not giving away any substantial power to elected politicians even after the proposed elections at the end of the year.