BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[BB1958]

Just my 2p worth, I'm an Aussie, I go to my embassy and PAY a ridiculous amount of money to get a Statuary Deceleration" signed. It is was of NO CONCERN of the embassy what is written on the Stat Dec, in fact they should not be reading it. They are there to CONFIRM I am the person signing. NOTHING ELSE.

 

I was a Commissionaire for Deceleration's in OZ for over 30 years, before the position was rescinded. I rarely if EVER knew the content of the Stat Dec, to which i verified the signature. Once I got my stat dec signed at the OZ embassy in BKK - I took it to chaengwattana, who processed it without any issues.

 

Does Britain have Statuary Deceleration forms? If so why not use those?? 

[Joe Mcseismic]

13 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Since when do BE have to do TI's job ?    They even admitted they could offer a stat dec but they don't want to...they give no legal reason why they can't just that they prefer not to is what she replied to Tafia

Because TI have asked them to and the BE said they can't. 

[Spidey]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

Because TI have asked them to and the BE said they can't. 

TI haven't asked them to, but you are right that the BE have ruled this out.

[Joe Mcseismic]

29 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Since when do BE have to do TI's job ?    They even admitted they could offer a stat dec but they don't want to...they give no legal reason why they can't just that they prefer not to is what she replied to Tafia

Because a Stat Dec does not verify income. Very soon now, Thai IO is going to understand that actual income verification is a huge task that can't be done by themselves, or, by any of the embassys. Then it'll be cash in a Thai bank only. Very simple and 100% verifiable.

 

We all better get ready for that day.

[Joe Mcseismic]

14 minutes ago, richiejom said:

TI immigration did not tell them to stop issuing the letters or that they cannot offer stat dec. You knew what I meant

What has that got to do with it? The BE have already explained why they stopped the letters and it's a valid reason. Maybe you and others don't agree with it because it'll make your life a bit more complicated, but, that doesn't negate the reason for the BE stopping the letters.

[Joe Mcseismic]

18 minutes ago, Spidey said:

TI haven't asked them to, but you are right that the BE have ruled this out.

I meant asked them to do a more thorough verification, which they have and the BE say they can't.

[Spidey]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

Because a Stat Dec does not verify income. Very soon now, Thai IO is going to understand that actual income verification is a huge task that can't be done by themselves, or, by any of the embassys. Then it'll be cash in a Thai bank only. Very simple and 100% verifiable.

 

We all better get ready for that day.

There are a number of work arounds to depositing 65k/month into a Thai bank account. Much less secure method of verifying income stream.

 

Thai Immigration will never go for it. If the BE had kept it's head down, this would have all blown over in a few months. At no point have TI said that they will no longer accept embassy letters in their current form and have confirmed that they will continue to accept the BE letters as long as they keep producing them.

 

TI really don't have a dog in this fight, the fight is between the BE and it's citizens.

[soalbundy]

57 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can you provide a link to the comment from BE that an Audit Report triggered this as my understanding is it came about as a result of a meeting between Thai Immigration & all Embassies where TI asked for better verification of Income before providing Income statements.

 

As far as I'm aware, apart from the BE, all other Embassies do not provide Income Letters (they just provide Stat Decs) so had no onus on them to do anything more & BE decided that they couldn't comply so would stop issuing the letters.

 

If anything this will cause a hole in their budget as at £50 (+ £2 P&P) they should be making a profit.

The German embassy provides an income letter, not a stat dec, I can't see the difference, giving a government department ie the embassy false info to get the letter is illegal, stat dec or no stat dec.

I don't believe that there was a meeting with TI and all other embassies (the German embassy didn't mention it to me during a short conversation regarding BE) but only with the BE after they rubbed the TI noses into the fact that total verification is impossible, a method that has functioned well for many years, the embassy letter was a pragmatic solution, a compromise.

In the interview with the BE (on this thread) the BE rep admitted there was an FCO audit and the letter cessation was a result of this.

Edited October 26, 2018 by soalbundy

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

What has that got to do with it? The BE have already explained why they stopped the letters and it's a valid reason. Maybe you and others don't agree with it because it'll make your life a bit more complicated, but, that doesn't negate the reason for the BE stopping the letters.

The fact that the decision was made by the FCO in London as the result of an audit, the fact that the BE in Bangkok have cut back on a number of other notary services, the fact that they are moving to new smaller premises, the fact that no other embassy has followed suit, does, to any person with a modicum of intelligence, suggest that the statement (and we don't know the wording of that statement) by TI isn't the main reason that BE have discontinued the letters.

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The fact that the decision was made by the FCO in London as the result of an audit, the fact that the BE in Bangkok have cut back on a number of other notary services, the fact that they are moving to new smaller premises, the fact that no other embassy has followed suit, does, to any person with a modicum of intelligence, suggest that the statement (and we don't know the wording of that statement) by TI isn't the main reason that BE have discontinued the letters.

There is no proof whatsoever for your statement about the FCO. It came from a single poster. You want to believe that poster over the BE, that's your decision, but, please don't present it as a fact.

[Spidey]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

There is no proof whatsoever for your statement about the FCO. It came from a single poster. You want to believe that poster over the BE, that's your decision, but, please don't present it as a fact.

The fact is that it came from the mouth of a British Embassy official in a radio interview. The interview is still available to you at the beginning of a related topic, if you'd care to fact check it.

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

he German embassy provides an income letter, not a stat dec, I can't see the difference, giving a government department ie the embassy false info to get the letter is illegal, stat dec or no stat dec.

 

the BE could have easily developed a sworn affidavit like they have in Vietnam. (Also used by several embassies in Thailand) You write in what you are declaring as true-  amount of income and source. You take an Oath that  what you have stated is true and you are subject to penalty of perjury if you lie-  that puts the onus on the individual- NOT the Embassy.\

 

BE refuses to do this- they use the excuse that it does not meet Thai Imms request for verification. Not true. Thai Imm has been accepting these as they know the affidavit is a sworn statement- Thai Imm can  ask for added proof and do.

 

You can decide yourself why BE will not do this.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

There is no proof whatsoever for your statement about the FCO. It came from a single poster. You want to believe that poster over the BE, that's your decision, but, please don't present it as a fact.

Listen to the interview, if it walks like a duck.............

[Joe Mcseismic]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The fact is that it came from the mouth of a British Embassy official in a radio interview. The interview is still available to you at the beginning of a related topic, if you'd care to fact check it.

And yet, the embassy official has stated that the reason they don't issue the letter is because it doesn't prove, or, verify income as requested by Thai IO.

[Spidey]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

And yet, the embassy official has stated that the reason they don't issue the letter is because it doesn't prove, or, verify income as requested by Thai IO.

And the decision was made by the FCO, not the BE, and was the result of an audit. Agreed?

[Joe Mcseismic]

20 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Listen to the interview, if it walks like a duck.............

Hard to keep up with all the threads on this subject.

OK, the decision to stop the letters came from the FCO. Could the reason be because the letter does not verify income stated as the Thai IO want? That has also been stated by the BE.

Cost factors may have played a small part, but, that is still supposition as it has not been stated by British officialdom.

 

Frankly, this conversation just goes up a blind alley. It doesn't really matter who said what to whom and why. It doesn't change the fact that the letters are toast. They're not coming back, petition or no. Income cannot be truly verified by anyone. Therefore get ready to see cash-in-Thai-bank-only. It's coming.......

Edited October 26, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

And yet, the embassy official has stated that the reason they don't issue the letter is because it doesn't prove, or, verify income as requested by Thai IO.

You mean the FCO auditors said we cant verify income 100% so we can save money by doing away with the letter. Nobody can verify 100%, the letter was a compromise, BE have known this for years as have the TI and all other embassies, there was only one reason to rock the boat, money saving. I can imgine that TI is p1ssed off with the BE.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Hard to keep up with all the threads on this subject.

OK, the decision to stop the letters came from the FCO. Could the reason be because the letter does not verify income stated as the Thai IO want? That has also been stated by the BE.

Cost factors may have played a small part, but, that is still supposition as it has not been stated by British officialdom.

Do you think that they are likely to admit to that when they can use some unknown statement by TI as an excuse? In the light of no other embassy following suit, one can only assume that cost/space saving was their main motivation for discontinuing the letters.

 

Listening to that portion of the interview carefully, it's clear that the embassy official immediately regretted making the statement about the FCO and started to backpedal, adding that it was the result of some unspecified statement by the IO.

 

No doubt that she got a rocket up her backside when she returned to the embassy!

Edited October 26, 2018 by Spidey

[CharlieH]

"Cost factors may have played a small part, but, that is still supposition as it has not been stated by British officialdom"

 

Yes it has, clearly in the Radio interview by the BE. 

Cost was a factor.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

"Cost factors may have played a small part, but, that is still supposition as it has not been stated by British officialdom"

 

Yes it has, clearly in the Radio interview by the BE. 

Cost was a factor.

The only factor, you wont find any British government department heads or MP's scratching their heads thinking how they can best serve the British public.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Unfortunately, I'm at a place where all streaming content is blocked, so, can't listen to the interview.

As I said before; the letter is gone. The reasons why are unimportant because it's not coming back.

What is important, is your actions to stay in Thailand legally with this new development.

The BE have reacted, now it's Thai immigration's turn to state what happens to British retirees and married men who can't get a letter anymore. I know what they will say and so do you guys......

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Unfortunately, I'm at a place where all streaming content is blocked, so, can't listen to the interview.

As I said before; the letter is gone. The reasons why are unimportant because it's not coming back.

What is important, is your actions to stay in Thailand legally with this new development.

The BE have reacted, now it's Thai immigration's turn to state what happens to British retirees and married men who can't get a letter anymore. I know what they will say and so do you guys......

Yes, as has been stated multiple times in this topic.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Unfortunately, I'm at a place where all streaming content is blocked, so, can't listen to the interview.

As I said before; the letter is gone. The reasons why are unimportant because it's not coming back.

What is important, is your actions to stay in Thailand legally with this new development.

The BE have reacted, now it's Thai immigration's turn to state what happens to British retirees and married men who can't get a letter anymore. I know what they will say and so do you guys......

yes, no letter, no extension, see an agent, he can bang in the 800k for you, another pragmatic compromise, so much for the TI desperately wanting 100% verification.

[Spidey]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

Unfortunately, I'm at a place where all streaming content is blocked, so, can't listen to the interview.

As I said before; the letter is gone. The reasons why are unimportant because it's not coming back.

What is important, is your actions to stay in Thailand legally with this new development.

The BE have reacted, now it's Thai immigration's turn to state what happens to British retirees and married men who can't get a letter anymore. I know what they will say and so do you guys......

Thai Immigration will say nothing on this subject. As has already been stated, TI are likely to be extremely peed off by the BE's words/actions. They have a viable and efficient process in place already to provide proof of income. Not their problem.

 

I have already managed my bank accounts, in the UK, in preparation to seed my Thai Bank account to the tune of 1m baht some 15 weeks before my next visa renewal is due. Onerous for me but probably the only way forward if I want to remain in Thailand for the foreseeable future.

 

Having said that, I and others, haven't given up the fight, and will continue to lobby the relevant British Government departments.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, richiejom said:

I'm sure there are married women ...married to Thai men I have heard of on more than one occasion

They have zero problems.

[Joe Mcseismic]

7 minutes ago, richiejom said:

I'm sure there are married women ...married to Thai men I have heard of on more than one occasion

The rules are different. They don't have to stump up any money.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/318838-visa-rules-for-a-foreign-woman-married-to-thai-man/

Edited October 26, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[CharlieH]

For those that are married and own property there is quite an easy fix. For those that are single and dont own property and dont have the capital its a huge issue and although there is around 18 months to sort it out, it must be a real dilemma for some and for those guys I hope time brings a solution.

[Joe Mcseismic]

5 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Whats the easy fix? married and own property or just married?

Ooooooo......I know this one, I know this one..............is it sell, rent, or borrow against the property?

[CharlieH]

Just as an example and obviously circumstances will vary.

If you are married the requirement is reduced to 400k (not 800k).

If you own property getting a 400k advance on the property shouldnt be difficult. Either short term or do it over 10 yrs and call it reverse saving. The monthly would be very low and you have it covered.

Thats just a suggested option for some.

[Pattaya46]

It's officially confirmed that USA will stop the income letter too  

 

See https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

 

NOTICE:  Beginning January 1, 2019, U.S. Embassy Bangkok and U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide the income affidavit.  We will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit.  For more information, please refer to our Fact Sheet (PDF 266KB) and Frequently Asked Questions (PDF 419KB).  We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period. The income affidavits are currently valid for six months.