How Much Is Enough To Retire Comfortably?

[Ricohoc]

Granted that much depends on the fluctuation of currency and cost of living ... along with investments over 20+ years, but I'm just looking for a conservative ballpark figure.

Let's say that an upper middle class home is already taken care of and the retiree is bringing in over 50,000 baht per month. What would someone have to have stockpiled in investments to be relatively comfortable for the rest of their time in the LOS?

Thanks in advance, guys.

[Casanundra]

This subject has been done to death on Thai visa and the opinion varies depending on lifestyle.

50k THB a month is ok to live on as a retiree but if it was me, then I would say that in order to protect your base investment, to beat inflation and to live off some of the interest earned to top up the 50k per month as well as having money available for trips and unexpected expenses, then you would need to have a minimum of 15 to 20 million baht stashed away in an interest earning account.

Some may say this is too much, some may say it is too low and it really does depend on the lifestyle you want to lead. But don't forget you need to build in some comfort for future Thailand contingencies who can and do change the game plan on occasion. That 800k per year requirement for a retiree may become 2 million tomorrow, who knows.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Casanundra

[ProThaiExpat]

Many retirees in Thailand live on 50K a month, once their cars and houses are paid for and one takes into account inflation, ie. pension "indexed".

The more "savings" or "capital" one has backin up living expenses the better, but everyone's comfort level is different.

Many do not have a choice as to how much captial they have when they retire. Health insurance or self insurance for health is definitely an issue, captial backup is necessary for self insurance for health.

PM if you want details.

Good luck.

[rogerinthai]

Many retirees in Thailand live on 50K a month, once their cars and houses are paid for and one takes into account inflation, ie. pension "indexed".

Cars have nothing to do with that, they just lose value with every mile you drive and every month that passes, plus they require money to maintain. Financially speaking, the later you buy them the better.

Regarding houses - buying a house in a country that requires you to renew your visa every year, and with unexpected changing regulations, multiplies your risk. Even if your status is 100% bulletproof, your investments are will likely more than cover any rent increases on the long run.

[PeaceBlondie]

Granted that much depends on the fluctuation of currency and cost of living ... along with investments over 20+ years, but I'm just looking for a conservative ballpark figure.

Let's say that an upper middle class home is already taken care of and the retiree is bringing in over 50,000 baht per month. What would someone have to have stockpiled in investments to be relatively comfortable for the rest of their time in the LOS?

Thanks in advance, guys.

You don't give us enough details, Ricohoc - just enough generalities to start some arguments. As Casanundra said, this has been done to death here.

Comfortable cost of living, upper middle class home, conservative ballpark - all vague. How old is the person? How many years to retirement? Are their investments high risk or low risk? What are the assumptions about inflation, rate of return, etc.? Health?

One example, strictly an opinion: if the retiree is about age 60, 8 million baht in the bank, pension of 80K every month, good medical plan paid for, taxes paid for, no leeching partner, reasonable health, sound judgment, no expensive habits - he or she should be fine.

[thedude]

crikey not another cost of living question.

maybe its time we had a separate 'cost of living' section in the forum, mods?

[ProThaiExpat]

Many retirees in Thailand live on 50K a month, once their cars and houses are paid for and one takes into account inflation, ie. pension "indexed".

Cars have nothing to do with that, they just lose value with every mile you drive and every month that passes, plus they require money to maintain. Financially speaking, the later you buy them the better.

Regarding houses - buying a house in a country that requires you to renew your visa every year, and with unexpected changing regulations, multiplies your risk. Even if your status is 100% bulletproof, your investments are will likely more than cover any rent increases on the long run.

Building your own home is a lifestyle choice and no question you can live cheaper by renting, if your able to enjoy a rented home, I cannot.

No question buying a used dependable older car is cheaper than buying a new one and bearing the expense of depreciation. In my case, I was new to Thailand and had no clue how to buy a used car and not inherit someone elses lemon so I bought a new Toyota Soluna and after five years, it has never been to the shop except for routine service. No a squeak, a rattle or visible wear and tear. It looks like new, except for perhaps is design which some might think is not trendy enough, ie. its new replacement the Altis.

Its value has halved in those five years, so I have suffered approximately 5k baht a month in depreciation. However, the peace of mind regarding reliability, appearance and safety makes that a small sum to me. I expect that monthly depreciation to greatly lessen in the next five years.

[rogerinthai]

Valid points, I was giving the financial view only, one's actions will of course be determined by other considerations as well. I have a few remarks though:

Building your own home is a lifestyle choice and no question you can live cheaper by renting, if your able to enjoy a rented home, I cannot.

Some of the reasons for buying a house that people usually mention are Security and Stability. My claim is there is no guarantee of stability for foreigners in Thailand, they might not even be able to renew their visa next time the law changes, therefore those reasons are a bit irrelevant.

...I bought a new Toyota Soluna and after five years, it has never been to the shop except for routine service.

OK routine service, but I assume you pay insurance too? How much is that?

I expect that monthly depreciation to greatly lessen in the next five years.

Right, but maintenance issues are likely to start costing more.

Anyway, my point here is that a car is not an Asset that has a positive impact on your monthly expenses (unlike buying a house, that saves the rent). If living in Bangkok, one can do very well without one.

[GuestHouse]

Whenever this discussion comes up we get a very wide spread of opinions, not surprising really given the wide spread of life styles and incomes of people commenting.

My personal view is that to 'Retire' in Thailand you need to have enough income based on secure interest to provide you with a comfortable living in your own country.

I take the view that if you are basing your calculation on always living in Thailand, then you are leaving yourself open to the vagaries of Thai politics - The assumption that you will always be welcome in Thailand or that you will always want to or be able to live in Thailand is I think an assumption with significant risks.

I also take the view that if your retirement plan is based upon earning income on your principle capital above secure investments, then you are again taking a risk.

Of course how much risk people wish to take is up to them.

My personal plan is to retire on about 60% of my current income and I am working to secure that in occupational pensions, personal pensions and cash savings. What is certain is I will not be playing the stock market when I retire.

I’m quite sure I could retire on a lot less, but I’m also planning to secure my wife’s financial future. Like many Farang/Thai marriages, she is younger than I am and hence OUR financial planning aims to secure OUR future.

[bendix]

There are so many of these threads

What might be useful is to hear what people ACTUALLY DID retire on, and how they manage.

I'm not retired yet (early 40s), but I'm in a position now when I could generate 100,000 a month from my savings and I have to say that that knowledge bugs me as I enter the office each morning . . .

It's tempting. Very tempting, if only for a couple of years.

[Gary A]

I agree that the topic has been done to death. Both extremes have been debated. I happen to be fairly conservative and have never been a bell ringer even when I did frequent the bars. I actually dislike fancy hotels and swank restaurants. I would actually give away the tickets if someone gave me an all expense paid trip around the world. I also prefer to live in the country so that is also less expensive.

That said, I live on considerably less than I could afford to spend. I could easily live on 20,000 baht per month but since I do waste some money, especially on vehicles and gadgets, that drives the cost up to maybe 40,000 baht per month. I cringe at the thought of having to live on a budget. My rent paying days are long over with so that is not an expense for me, nor is it ever likely to be an issue. Owning a car, truck and a motorcycle is an extravagance but I can afford it and I'm not likely to live forever anyways. I can live exactly as I choose for less than 40,000 baht per month.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Khun ?]

I think a simple way to look at it would be to take life back home in a rural or smaller city setting.

Lower middle class would put you in a upper middle class style living in Thailand at the least.

That would leave open the possibilities of moving on to where ever in the future.

This would also leave you the option of living anywhere in Thailand in a dcent fashion and many

other developing countries. This should cover how you would like to live and amount to your liking.

[JimsKnight]

If you're into frugal living then about £80,000 in a high interest account is enough. Have a slush fund of at least £10,000 to cover emergencies. This will give you roughly 20 k baht per month or thereabouts.

For a comfortable living that includes nightlife activities then consider £160,000 or more saved before taking the plunge. This is about 50 k baht per month. Also bear in mind that living in BKK you should add 5 - 10 % to the above figures.

Note: You'll need to be claiming back your tax to benefit fully from high interest accounts (As you'll be a tax exile).

[retiredusn]

Granted that much depends on the fluctuation of currency and cost of living ... along with investments over 20+ years, but I'm just looking for a conservative ballpark figure.

Let's say that an upper middle class home is already taken care of and the retiree is bringing in over 50,000 baht per month. What would someone have to have stockpiled in investments to be relatively comfortable for the rest of their time in the LOS?

Thanks in advance, guys.

30 too 50k (baht) per month is enough to live very comfortable in Thailand This amount is more than enough to pay rent/ect. and still leave plenty for travel around the country . As far as money in the bank a safe margin is 50K US with I am guessing a monthly pension check going direct deposit/

[Ricohoc]

You don't give us enough details, Ricohoc - just enough generalities to start some arguments. As Casanundra said, this has been done to death here.

Comfortable cost of living, upper middle class home, conservative ballpark - all vague. How old is the person? How many years to retirement? Are their investments high risk or low risk? What are the assumptions about inflation, rate of return, etc.? Health?

One example, strictly an opinion: if the retiree is about age 60, 8 million baht in the bank, pension of 80K every month, good medical plan paid for, taxes paid for, no leeching partner, reasonable health, sound judgment, no expensive habits - he or she should be fine.

Well, I didn't think that an argument would begin; and I'll try to be more specific in the future in order to prevent the rising blood pressure of some.

Your example was fine and exactly what I meant ... even though I will be somewhat younger than 60 and don't plan to work.

Appreciate the other responses, guys. You all made a contribution that helped me to better understand the general economic climate in the LOS, and I appreciate you taking the time to post on an overdone topic. By the way, is there an area where all those "cost of living" and "retirement planning" threads can be found?

Thanks again, guys!

[backflip]

Try using the SEARCH function. It's magic.

[Khun ?]

Your example was fine and exactly what I meant ... even though I will be somewhat younger than 60 and don't plan to work.

Appreciate the other responses, guys. You all made a contribution that helped me to better understand the general economic climate in the LOS, and I appreciate you taking the time to post on an overdone topic. By the way, is there an area where all those "cost of living" and "retirement planning" threads can be found?

Thanks again, guys!

Another easy way, figure out how you would like to live back home, drop 25% and if you want to watch the spending a bit more, drop 35%. This is based on smaller city and rural areas in western countries.

I would assume being in your mid 50's there will be a list of smaller creature comforts that you would not like

to go without for a while, at least for a couple years anyways.

Vehicle would be a luxury item to most and not really necissary. Many suffice ok to putt around on mopeds

for normal run around nothing in particular trips. Taxis are cheap for the times you have more than your arms will carry and times out where you may drink a bit too much. Not wise to drive if drinks are involved anyways.

Reasonable estimate would be 65+K baht which should cover local adventures and hotel cost while on the go.

This amount for the average person would put you living fine most of the time. Wise not to buy housing until you have lived a year if not two in country. Your interest will change from time to time and boredom might come into play depending on your individual lifestyle. You did not mention companionship so just to throw in

a girlfriends needs of 10K to 15K a month, this can vary greatly.

You did not list any of your interest so a narrowed down budget to location. In the country sides of Thailand

40% less than back home with same comforts. Good Luck and welcome to the jungle.