Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[lamyai3]

22 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

"... this ugly sweep by immigration. "

Just to be clear., nothing has changed with Thai Immigration's policies. It is the retirees' respective embassy that are stuffing things up. 

All of them, at the same time, after many years of accepted procedure? Shurely shome mishtake... 

[pookiki]

4 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

All of them, at the same time, after many years of accepted procedure? Shurely shome mishtake... 

Not all -- just three.

[lamyai3]

22 minutes ago, Spidey said:

IMO the recent crackdown on aliens is an attempt by the Junta to curry favour with it's zenophobic base prior to the election. Similar to Trump's attacks on immigrants.

 

If I'm right this will all blow over after the election. Pity that 3 embassies decided not to ride the storm.

Yes, there's already signs of BJs remit being broadened outwards to include anything and everything in the past few days.

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Not all -- just three.

Three of the biggest in rapid succession, the writing's on the wall. 

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

What surprises me is the broad lack of empathy shown on here to people who've managed to stay in country for years on a modest budget and support their families, who are now adversely affected by this ugly sweep by immigration. 

 

agree. just ask the border runners, ed visa holders, digital nomads & tourist visa holders what empathy they were shown when they were pushed towards the door - (hint: not much)

 

some sad, nasty people around

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by GeorgeCross

[Lovethailandelite]

11 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Everyone -- please remember -- Thai immigration is still accepting income verification affidavits from other embassies.  Only the US, UK, and Australia embassies have decided to suspend this practice.  We need to be treated equally by our embassies and they must act on our behalf to find an equitable and workable solution to reinstate the issuance of income verification letters!

There will be no reinstating of the income verification letter as they were not, and can never be, fit for purpose.
The equitable and workable solution agreed, is the one included in the guidance notes stating regular minimum monthly income to a Thai bank account of 40/65k or the banked method of 800k.
How one or other Embassy conducts it's business is of no concern of any other particular Embassy.

[pookiki]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

it's a thaivisa thing - ask the border runners, ed visa holders, digital nomads & tourist visa holders what empathy they were shown by thaivisa 'members' when they were pushed towards the door - (hint: not much)

 

sad, nasty people here.

 

Not all or I wouldn't be trying to do what I'm doing to help other people. However, I do wish that those who do have empathy and are not reluctant to organize to make expat voices heard in Thailand were more inclined to find a way to form an organization.

[chicowoodduck]

Sounds like you will make a HUGE difference In the grand scheme of things......it is a done deal.....get use to it....it will only be getting worse......????

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

There will be no reinstating of the income verification letter as they were not, and can never be, fit for purpose.
The equitable and workable solution agreed, is the one included in the guidance notes stating regular minimum monthly income to a Thai bank account of 40/65k or the banked method of 800k.
How one or other Embassy conducts it's business is of no concern of any other particular Embassy.

If the income letters weren't fit for purpose (bear in mind the British Embassy asked for documented proof of income) how could showing income into a Thai bank account be fit for purpose? The vast majority of people would not be able to have their income transferred directly into a Thai bank account, therefore transfers from their home country bank accounts, by whatever means, could not be verified as income. 

 

Also the system is ripe for abuse by cycling of money in various ways. Far less fit for purpose than the current British Embassy income letters.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Spidey

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

There will be no reinstating of the income verification letter as they were not, and can never be, fit for purpose.
The equitable and workable solution agreed, is the one included in the guidance notes stating regular minimum monthly income to a Thai bank account of 40/65k or the banked method of 800k.
How one or other Embassy conducts it's business is of no concern of any other particular Embassy.

your crystal ball is fake

[Spidey]

Just now, soalbundy said:

your crystal ball is fake

Yep, clearly silicone.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, chicowoodduck said:

Sounds like you will make a HUGE difference In the grand scheme of things......it is a done deal.....get use to it....it will only be getting worse......????

get invited to a lot of parties do you?????

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Also the system is ripe for abuse by cycling of money in various ways. Far less fit for purpose than the current British Embassy income letters.

I agree that the method lends itself maybe to a bunch of revolving door tactics however the IMM officer could ask -- at least for the first extension -- for a reasonable explanation if not some document as to where those transfers originate which might be a deterrent to the one deposit per year recycled 11 times crowd.

[luckyluke]

54 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

at present the embassies are accountable for the income declaration.

Which means exactly what concretely ?

 

What are the eventually penalties which can occur towards an embassy ?

 

I refuse to admit Thailand would start a diplomatic incident for such a thing.

[Spidey]

Just now, JLCrab said:

I agree that the method lends itself maybe to a bunch of revolving door tactics however the IMM officer could ask -- at least for the first extension -- for a reasonable explanation if not some document as to where those transfers originate which might be a deterrent to the one deposit per year recycled 11 times crowd.

Do you really think that TI have either the ability or the will to go to those lengths? Also, far easier to pass off fake documentation to some lowly IO than your embassy staff.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Which means exactly what concretely ?

 

What are the eventually penalties which can occur towards an embassy ?

 

I refuse to admit Thailand would start a diplomatic incident for such a thing.

the embassy staff would be blacklisted At 7/11

[JLCrab]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Do you really think that TI have either the ability or the will to go to those lengths? Also, far easier to pass off fake documentation to some lowly IO than your embassy staff.

Quite likely not which is why I have my OA package ready to go. I have already purchased my BKK to USA RT ticket for end of July 2019.

 

The monthly deposit route is, as you say, without any safeguards too prone to fraud which seems is second nature to many on here.

Edited November 10, 2018 by JLCrab

[Spidey]

Just now, JLCrab said:

Quite likely not which is why I have my OA package ready to go.

A wise move. I wish all contributors to this thread were making alternative arrangements rather than sticking their heads in the sand and hoping that it will be alright on the night.

 

OA is a very impractical option for me. I'm preparing to seed my account to the tune of 800k baht next year.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Do you really think that TI have either the ability or the will to go to those lengths? Also, far easier to pass off fake documentation to some lowly IO than your embassy staff.

especially the ones not in English. The embassy knows best their countries documents, methods of payments and amounts of pensions likely to be paid, IO's would give up with originals in French, German, Italian etc, even with translations, the translation bureaus wouldn't care if the originals had been altered or not, not their job.

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Quite likely not which is why I have my OA package ready to go. I have already purchased my BKK to USA RT ticket for end of July 2019.

 

The monthly deposit route is, as you say, without any safeguards too prone to fraud which seems is second nature to many on here.

I can't see the point in engaging in fraud with the monthly income, you have to live of off something, what's the point in transferring 65k to Thailand and then sending it back out again, what do you live off.?

[Artisi]

On 11/8/2018 at 8:54 AM, Orton Rd said:

All you have to organise is getting the correct amount of money in your bank account, or coming into it. The only people this change affects are the liars and fraudsters, as it was meant to

Correct, chanel your money each month /quarter /year through a Thai bank, no big drama, unless of course you are circumventing the system, and if you are - tough titties - bye bye. 

[simon43]

Anyone who seriously believes that embassies will change their stance on this matter when faced with complaints and moaning from their citizens is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Stop wasting your breath and your keyboard!  Either put up 800k, go back home or move to another country - it's that simple.

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I can't see the point in engaging in fraud with the monthly income, you have to live of off something, what's the point in transferring 65k to Thailand and then sending it back out again, what do you live off.?

Some only want to spend about half that much. But I have read on these topics about how some could use Transferwise, or Dee Money, or PayPal let alone other means to short-circuit the system so there must be some who are interested in doing so.

 

But at least for me I am making the SWIFT FTT deposits at least until mid-next year in case this method goes through. If not, there are alternatives.

[luckyluke]

Speculation :

 

T.I. to embassies : " We would appreciate you have a closer look at the incomes of your nationals when issuing a document about revenues ".

 

Embassies to T.I. : " We will do everything what is legally possible, if you eventually encounter a falsifier, please let us know, he will be sentenced accordingly "

 

American, Australian, British embassy : " We will not issue a document anymore ".

 

 

[Bang Bang]

It's odd to see expats moan about the fiscal requirements to stay here and claim at the same time how sorry Thailand will be to see them go because of what they put into the local economy.

 

Hate to say it but if you're struggling to meet the minimum income need then then you're replaceable by a few grinning tourists as far as Thailand is concerned.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Bang Bang

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Correct, chanel your money each month /quarter /year through a Thai bank, no big drama, unless of course you are circumventing the system, and if you are - tough titties - bye bye. 

Yes but all we need to know is what method is acceptable, what do they want? until we hear from TI we won't know. The danger here is that they won't do anything, 400/800k in the bank an embassy letter or the highway is a distinct possibility, depending ultimately on your IO.

Incidentally my partner met our IO in Tesco yesterday and mentioned the concerns that I had, '' I've dealt with your husband for years (we aren't married but I suppose he was being polite) you have a son together and a family he has the required income, he'll be alright''  ''yes but what if the letter stops'', he just shrugged his shoulders and said ''we won't kick him out because of a letter, it will sort itself out''  So even the IO's seem to be aware of what's going on and perhaps this was a hint that something is being worked out.

[soalbundy]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Anyone who seriously believes that embassies will change their stance on this matter when faced with complaints and moaning from their citizens is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Stop wasting your breath and your keyboard!  Either put up 800k, go back home or move to another country - it's that simple.

Yeah, sod the wife and kids, pull my stepdaughter out of college and tell her papa is history, go look after the kwai.

[EricTh]

It's just not fair that some people can just declare a false income. It's actually a loophole that was not known to Thai immigration until now.

 

If you really do have money, just transfer the money to a Thai bank.

 

 

[simon43]

Quote

 

Yeah, sod the wife and kids, pull my stepdaughter out of college and tell her papa is history, go look after the kwai.
 

 

 

Well, if that is what will happen to you and your family, then you need to man up and accept that - 'cos there is absolutely zero chance of any embassy listening and acting on your complaints - zero, nothing, nada...

 

Update:  ... and you would do all the above for the sake of not putting 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account??

Edited November 10, 2018 by simon43

[soalbundy]

19 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Some only want to spend about half that much. But I have read on these topics about how some could use Transferwise, or Dee Money, or PayPal let alone other means to short-circuit the system so there must be some who are interested in doing so.

 

But at least for me I am making the SWIFT FTT deposits at least until mid-next year in case this method goes through. If not, there are alternatives.

How is transferwise short circuiting the system, you can only use it to bring money in to Thailand not however to send it out, I will be using this system. I need more than the 65k a month for my family anyway.