Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Waffling barsteward.

 

I managed 3 minutes of that.

Too many long words? You really should persevere and extend your vocabulary. The Sun, The Mail, The Express are just not helping Are they?

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And again, he makes great points. Would be a terrific PM!

 

... & I'm still not changing sides ????

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by evadgib

[beautifulthailand99]

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The Olympic & Commonwealth torches spend much of their journey(s) in the hands of similarly small numbers en-route to their destination...

 

Well I'll tell you this, the Brexiter torch is not a very bright one!

 

What, what, what; not a very bright light, only three watts!

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well I'll tell you this, the Brexiter torch is not a very bright one!

 

What, what, what; not a very bright light, only three watts!

All Tylers?

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

... & I'm still not changing sides ????

 

Give me break

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I am sure that some leavers voted that way because they genuinely believed the UK would be better off out of the EU than in; but they are in the minority. By their own admission, Vote.Leave didn't target them, they targeted the undecided with three main areas of attack.

 

1) To stop immigration, to stop East Europeans coming and taking British jobs.

 

Except they weren't!

 

These countries joined The EU in 2004, Bulgaria and Romania in 2007. "Between 2000 and 2007 the (UK unemployment) rate was relatively stable before rising from 5.3 percent in 2007 to 8.1 percent by 2011. This increase was almost certainly due to the onset of the Great Recession in 2008, which saw the United Kingdom's GDP contract by 4.2 percent in 2009. The UK's unemployment rate declined after 2011, but only reached it's pre-2008 levels in 2015 before declining further in more recent years, reaching a low for this period of 4.1 percent in 2018." (Source)

 

Though some seemed confused as to which immigrants leaving the EU would stop! Remember videos like that of the man saying he had no problem with Poles or Romanians coming here; he voted Leave to stop immigrants from Muslim countries! 

 

2) To regain our sovereignty.

 

Whenever a country signs an international treaty of any kind it obviously cedes some sovereignty in matters covered by that treaty. That has been the case ever since countries started to arrange treaties, trade deals etc. between them.

 

Although a sovereign state could ignore the terms of that treaty or deal if it wished. For example, all EU law has to be approved by Parliament before it becomes law in the UK. Of course, if Parliament withheld it's approval there would be some explaining to do. But that will be the same if we break the terms of any treaties or trade deals we sign post Brexit; no matter who they may be with.   

 

Many are still confused as to how little sovereignty we have actually ceded to the EU. Very little is the answer and that only on matters effecting the EU as a whole. In all other areas we retain complete sovereignty.

 

Who passes Acts concerning the control of crime? The UK Parliament.

 

For example laws concerning knife ownership are up to individual member states. There is an EU directive concerning minimum standards required for gun ownership, but member states are free to set more stringent ones if they wish; as we have done.

 

The minimum age to purchase alcohol or tobacco, the minimum age to marry etc. isn't governed by the EU and is not the same in all member states.

 

Who sets our tax rates and public spending? The UK Parliament.

 

Who sets our foreign policy; including if we go to war? The UK Parliament.

 

Etc., etc..

 

The list of what we have sovereignty over is a lot longer than the list of areas where we ceded sovereignty to the EU.

 

3) Because they believed the various Leave campaigns, official and otherwise, when they said that we could leave but still enjoy all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities. 

 

That and their dirty tricks. Having realised in a previous campaign against  changing the UK's first past the post electoral system that the ASA had no control over political adverts, they went to it with a will; the infamous Boris bus being one example. Also skillful video editing played a large part; "The most popular videos (on Vote.Leave's Facebook page) are carefully selected TV clips. For example, Mr Cameron was generally judged to have dealt well with 30 minutes of questions from an ITV audience on June 7. But Vote Leave posted an excerpt of an audience member complaining about his record on immigration. The 36-second video — which did not include the prime minister’s response — was billed as the “highlight of tonight’s ITV debate”. It has been viewed 1.4m times on Facebook. That is substantial when compared with 4m people who watched the programme live." (Source)

Too long; You'd be better off delivering that as a talking head.

(easier for the board too)

HTH

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by evadgib

[dick dasterdly]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

Tony Benn spelled it out so well 44 years ago. Everyone still thought it was a Common Market then.

 

 

I never understood why Tony Benn was portrayed as the ultimate 'bogeyman' in the press.  He always came across as honest and sincere to me.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Waffling barsteward.

 

I managed 3 minutes of that.

I'm impressed, as I managed less....

 

But to be fair, it's always a problem to listen to anyone for whom we have no respect.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Mods have told him twice now not to use it, but that is water off a ducks back to him, it has done more shows than Status Quo. 

 

 

To be fair, I enjoyed the Status Quo performance I attended ????.  The odd, stupid, nationalist - not so much.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

we shall see.....I reckon 20k tops at the end - if the weather is good. Bad weather then 5-10k. Which is hardly a successful call to arms of the British people to support Leave means Leave. 

I agree.  We need to wait to see what happens at the next GE.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

And again, he makes great points. Would be a terrific PM!

Ha ha - not at all funny IMO.

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I never understood why Tony Benn was portrayed as the ultimate 'bogeyman' in the press.  He always came across as honest and sincere to me.

Benn came from a privileged background but became a Labour man who was also linked, by some, to communism, at a time when the Cold War was at its peak. I would just say that he seems to have been more a very keen socialist but this association with communism was common in the UK, when there was majority anti-communist sentiment. He, Peter Shore and Enoch Powell did not get much of an audience w.r.t, the EEC at the time because of their views on politics and immigration etc.   

 

I was influenced by my old man at the time so, I didn't listen to these people much then either. But on Europe they were spot on, with much of what they said on this subject still so true now. This just goes to show how significant the Treaty of Rome was...far more than the Common Market that Heath sold to everyone.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Blair demonstrates great statesmanship in front of that arse Piers Morgan and his two bimbos. Listen to the subtleties and the good sense and compare with some of the dumbo bimbo comments.

Oops, my mistake - you genuinely believe this! ????

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Mods have told him twice now not to use it, but that is water off a ducks back to him, it has done more shows than Status Quo. 

 

 

Only reporting works against a remainer comment - never mind how offensive.

 

I'm hoping that this obvious comment will not result in a holiday.....

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well if you believe you mother-in-law that does say a lot.

You really ought to read posts before comment, not that it would make a lot of difference.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You really ought to read posts before comment, not that it would make a lot of difference.

I read it. 

[tebee]

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Benn came from a privileged background but became a Labour man who was also linked, by some, to communism, at a time when the Cold War was at its peak. I would just say that he seems to have been more a very keen socialist but this association with communism was common in the UK, when there was majority anti-communist sentiment. He, Peter Shore and Enoch Powell did not get much of an audience w.r.t, the EEC at the time because of their views on politics and immigration etc.   

 

I was influenced by my old man at the time so, I didn't listen to these people much then either. But on Europe they were spot on, with much of what they said on this subject still so true now. This just goes to show how significant the Treaty of Rome was...far more than the Common Market that Heath sold to everyone.

He was an amazing oritor - I've meet him some Labour fringe meetings years ago - he made some convincing arguments, even though I didn't always agree with him. 

He had a really good presence and made you feel he absolutely believed what he was saying, rather than today's politicians who always give me the impression they are trying to say what they think you want to hear rather than what they believe in.    

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

The list of what we have sovereignty over (etc etc) has been shrinking for years, and will continue to shrink if we stay in. Some taxes have been affected for years (eg VAT rates). The EU already plan common tax, defence and foreign policies.

 I’m very surprised “not” why the remainers have failed to look at the future plans, as drawn up by those unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels. And then tried to convince us of the benefits of staying in this so called union.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I read it. 

That being the case you will have no problem showing me where I mentioned my mother in law.

The first died in 1980 and the second in 1997, the third was Thai and died before becoming my mother in law, none of them had much to say on brexit.

In case you have forgotten what you said, "Well if you believe you mother-in-law that does say a lot."

Obviously you do not see the difference between reading and understanding.

[sandyf]

It is quite obvious that they need us more than we need them.

 

The EU has said Britain cannot delay Brexit without a clear plan for what happens next, indicating only an election, a new referendum or major compromise on Theresa May’s red lines will suffice.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-eu-no-deal-michel-barnier-leave-theresa-may-john-bercow-a8830716.html

[7by7]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

The list of what we have sovereignty over (etc etc) has been shrinking for years, and will continue to shrink if we stay in. Some taxes have been affected for years (eg VAT rates). The EU already plan common tax, defence and foreign policies.

You really should check things before you post them as fact. Less embarrassing that way.

 

Member states set their own VAT rates. The standard rate varies between 17% (Luxembourg) to 27% (Hungary).

 

The same for other taxes, income tax, fuel duty etc. Do you have a link to show the EU plan to force members to standardise these throughout?

 

There is the European Defence Force, but it is very similar to NATO; even more so to UN forces. Do you believe we should leave NATO and the UN because  membership robs us of our sovereignty?

 

Thatcher, rightly, went to war to liberate the Falklands despite opposition from France and other members.

 

Blair didn't, wrongly, go to war in Iraq because the EU told him to, he did it because Bush told him to!

 

Yes, there has been some talk about a common EU Army under the direct control of the EU. But such suggestions have regularly been made for over 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. Even if the EU were to take it seriously, it would need the unanimous agreement of all member states to happen.

 

There is a common EU foreign policy of sorts, expressed via the Common Foreign and Security Policy; but it's remit is limited and member's participation is voluntary. It certainly does not stop members having their own foreign policy objectives.

 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Don't keep picking it - it'll never heal.

Translation: I can't dispute the facts, so I'll make a childish comment instead!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Too long; You'd be better off delivering that as a talking head.

(easier for the board too)

HTH

 

 

Perhaps you'd rather I simply used short monosyllabic sentences as per the Sun, Star or Sport to make it easier for them?

 

With a picture of a woman with her tits out to grab their attention?

 

Not going to; and your comment shows how little respect you have for the comprehension abilities of your fellow Brexiteers here!

[Krataiboy]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Translation: I can't dispute the facts, so I'll make a childish comment instead!

A bit rich from a Remainer who won't recognise a simple fact like the referendum result and resorts to posting rambling monologues in a vain bid to explain this away.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Krataiboy

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I’m very surprised “not” why the remainers have failed to look at the future plans, as drawn up by those unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels. And then tried to convince us of the benefits of staying in this so called union.

 

Future plans? Such as?

 

From the horses mouth, please; not some rabid Brexiteer.

 

A reminder that the unelected bureaucrats may propose legislation, but for anything to come of it that proposal has to be approved by the democratically elected European Parliament and for major decisions, gthe democratically elected heads of state, or at least ministers, in the council.

 

As you are such a fan of Democracy, I'd have thought you would approve of these decisions being made Democratically!

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

A bit rich from a Remainer who won't recognise the fact of the referendum result and resorts to rambling monologues to try and work out why.

At least I try to explain my reasoning rather than making silly comments.

 

But maybe you belong to the group @evadgib believes can't comprehend long, polysyllabic sentences!

[Krataiboy]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is quite obvious that they need us more than we need them.

 

The EU has said Britain cannot delay Brexit without a clear plan for what happens next, indicating only an election, a new referendum or major compromise on Theresa May’s red lines will suffice.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-eu-no-deal-michel-barnier-leave-theresa-may-john-bercow-a8830716.html

Well, I never - somebody actually reads the Independent and actually quotes what they say!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Krataiboy]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

At least I try to explain my reasoning rather than making silly comments.

 

But maybe you belong to the group @evadgib believes can't comprehend long, polysyllabic sentences!

You need a lesson in literary economics. But at least you enable me to save on sleeping pills.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Krataiboy

[bomber]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You really should check things before you post them as fact. Less embarrassing that way.

 

Member states set their own VAT rates. The standard rate varies between 17% (Luxembourg) to 27% (Hungary).

 

The same for other taxes, income tax, fuel duty etc. Do you have a link to show the EU plan to force members to standardise these throughout?

 

There is the European Defence Force, but it is very similar to NATO; even more so to UN forces. Do you believe we should leave NATO and the UN because  membership robs us of our sovereignty?

 

Thatcher, rightly, went to war to liberate the Falklands despite opposition from France and other members.

 

Blair didn't, wrongly, go to war in Iraq because the EU told him to, he did it because Bush told him to!

 

Yes, there has been some talk about a common EU Army under the direct control of the EU. But such suggestions have regularly been made for over 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. Even if the EU were to take it seriously, it would need the unanimous agreement of all member states to happen.

 

There is a common EU foreign policy of sorts, expressed via the Common Foreign and Security Policy; but it's remit is limited and member's participation is voluntary. It certainly does not stop members having their own foreign policy objectives.

 

brexiteers seem to think the EU has total control over every little issue in their sad lives,its all in their simple minds,they are brainwashed paranoid freaks,daft think is not one aspect of their lives will improve with brexit in any form but they cannot see it,i will love to see the thailand based ones like the owl suffer the most, bring on 35bt to the pound YIPPEEE,there's ya beloved brexit,lets not to forget the Turkeys of sunderland