Affidavit or not?

[bprhodes]

I am due to renew my extension of stay in March 2019. I am trying decide whether or not to “purchase” an income affidavit from the CM U.S. consulate while I still can. (I have an appointment on Dec. 20th.) But I wonder, is this just a waste of $50?

 

My thinking is that come Jan. 1 affidavits will no longer be available, so after that date The IO will have to have methods in place to verify income. I have heard anecdotally that the CM IO is already requiring backup evidence of income. I have multiple ways of proving my income such as a letter from my Calpers pension, SS statement, income tax return (I will complete mine prior to March renewal), and my BKK Bank statement showing an average of 100 K transfers into Thailand over the last year (although there may have been the odd month with less than 65K.) I also hold an usufruct on land and a house owned by my Thai son, and 2 year old bank statements showing about 3 million baht coming into Thailand for the construction.

 

It seems to me that getting the affidavit would likely be a waste of time and money, even if I have one, they will still be looking at the other proof, and they can’t require an affidavit because they are no longer being issued.

 

Should I get the affidavit as additional security? Or am I wasting my time and $50?

[jmd8800]

My opinion is this is a $50 insurance policy. Nobody knows what is going to happen but by doing this you hedge your bets. I am obtaining the income affidavit and hope it works. If not: Plan B

 

During the US Consulate meeting a couple of weeks ago the acting ambassador said the income affidavits would be honored by Thai Immigration for 6 months from date on the income affidavit.

 

Edit... assuming one has reasonable backup documentation. In Chiang Mai they have not been letting people inside unless there is some for of backup documentation along with the income affidavit. I'd take SS / private retirement letters, retirement 1099s and maybe a tax return.

 

I'd also go as early as possible (30 or 45 days before expiration depending on the office) in case one needs extra time to prepare.

 

What plays out in real time is anyone's guess.

[pgrahmm]

I'm getting one....I can verify every income stream into TH.....

 

However, as soon as this popped up I grabbed an appointment....It may or may not be needed but, at least it's a known content for 6 months going forward....Hopefully, in a years time everything expected will be more clearly defined.....

[bprhodes]

My opinion is this is a $50 insurance policy. Nobody knows what is going to happen but by doing this you hedge your bets. I am obtaining the income affidavit and hope it works. If not: Plan B
 
During the US Consulate meeting a couple of weeks ago the acting ambassador said the income affidavits would be honored by Thai Immigration for 6 months from date on the income affidavit.
 
Edit... assuming one has reasonable backup documentation. In Chiang Mai they have not been letting people inside unless there is some for of backup documentation along with the income affidavit. I'd take SS / private retirement letters, retirement 1099s and maybe a tax return.
 
I'd also go as early as possible (30 or 45 days before expiration depending on the office) in case one needs extra time to prepare.
 
What plays out in real time is anyone's guess.

If they are requiring backup, what’s the point of the affidavit? Everyone know it’s not worth the ink used to print it. Sorry, I know I’m using logic here....

[pgrahmm]

18 minutes ago, bprhodes said:

 

If they are requiring backup, what’s the point of the affidavit? Everyone know it’s not worth the ink used to print it. Sorry, I know I’m using logic here....

 

Mainly because it's largely undefined as to what is and isn't usable....

But - this has been designated as working & acceptable for the first 6 months of 2019....

[Dante99]

5 hours ago, bprhodes said:

 

If they are requiring backup, what’s the point of the affidavit? Everyone know it’s not worth the ink used to print it. Sorry, I know I’m using logic here....

 

Trying to.  There are clearly different levels of backup and with the affidavit the level may well be lower than without.  

[Myome]

Thai immigration in Mae Sot has told me that they only accept foreign consulate/embassy affidavits for the monthly income requirement. No other documentation is acceptable for this. I told them about the recent changes regarding the affidavits as of 1 January 2019 and they then said one must keep the required 800,000THB. That is the only option which they will accept,

[seajae]

got mine from the aussie embassy last week and between there and home it was miss placed so I have to do it again this coming week, another return flight and day in Bangkok but it will be the last one, will just put the money in the bank next year, a very expensive stuff up

[bprhodes]

Trying to.  There are clearly different levels of backup and with the affidavit the level may well be lower than without.  

This is a good point. But it’s hard to imagine better back up than I have with pension letter, SS statement, bank book, tax return. If they won’t except mine hard to believe they would accept anything.

[bprhodes]

Thai immigration in Mae Sot has told me that they only accept foreign consulate/embassy affidavits for the monthly income requirement. No other documentation is acceptable for this. I told them about the recent changes regarding the affidavits as of 1 January 2019 and they then said one must keep the required 800,000THB. That is the only option which they will accept,

This will change, if it doesn’t they will be facing a mass exodus.

[Hayduke]

55 minutes ago, bprhodes said:

This will change, if it doesn’t they will be facing a mass exodus.

 

A couple of points: a) It probably will not create a mass exodus, and b) If it does, the government won’t much care. We are not that important.

 

It appears that when the dust settles we’ll see a pronounced emphasis on agents (who will come up with a variety of creative ways to prove financials) and the Big BJ will be hailed as their patron saint.

 

Immigration officers are not equipped, prepared for, or inclined to wade though crowds of farangs with their piles of mysterious farang retirement documentation. The embassy income letters made it relatively painless...but now it's too hard….and no real rewards.

 

So much easier to deal with a group of polite, obsequious, Thai-speaking, gift-bearing agents. The work will be much, much easier and a steady stream of agents will provide a steady stream of financial incentives.

 

The “No Tips” signs really mean: “We don’t want tips from farangs, but safe, hassle-free commissions from agents are perfectly acceptable.”

 

[Muzarella]

Get the affidavit now!!!!

 

It is valid for 6 months and Immigration will accept just it at the time of your renewal.

 

After January 1st you will not have that luck.

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, bprhodes said:

If they are requiring backup, what’s the point of the affidavit? Everyone know it’s not worth the ink used to print it. Sorry, I know I’m using logic here....

The reason it's called "backup" is because it's backing up what you claimed on the affidavit.  Most likely easier to add up the bits and pieces of "proof" to see that the total on the affidavit equals the sum of the parts.

 

You're not really using logic if you claim that "everybody know [sic]" something and admit you don't understand why something is done the way it is.

 

 

[lopburi3]

23 hours ago, bprhodes said:

they can’t require an affidavit because they are no longer being issued.

At this point only a handful of the 77 Embassies in Thailand have said they will not issue income affidavits.

[ross163103]

14 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

We are not that important.

Exactly(!); I'm important to my Thai extended family but not to the Thai govt. They want tourists who come here, spend their money, then leave. 

[Suradit69]

16 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

A couple of points: a) It probably will not create a mass exodus, and b) If it does, the government won’t much care. We are not that important.

Agree. Unfortunately some people may choose to leave, but I imagine most people will figure out a work-around. 

 

There will be a trade off between putting a pile of money in the back or using an agent versus the hassle of travelling to your embassy or consulate and paying them for 1 minute of their time to stamp a piece of paper.

[ross163103]

14 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

We are not that important.

Exactly(!); I'm important to my Thai extended family but not to the Thai govt. They want tourists who come here, spend their money, then leave. 

[steve187]

1 hour ago, bprhodes said:

This will change, if it doesn’t they will be facing a mass exodus.

i debt it would be a mass exodus, maybe a minuscule trickle

[Suradit69]

6 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

Exactly(!); I'm important to my Thai extended family but not to the Thai govt. They want tourists who come here, spend their money, then leave. 

I seriously doubt the government, a collection of officials and civil servants, had a sit down and held a vote on whether or not they preferred tourists over long stay foreigners. 

 

The only people who might get culled would be those who rely on claims of monthly income and who won't be able to put a lump sum in the bank or otherwise meet whatever new requirements may emerge in 2019.

 

You could also say that they want long stayers who have the money to contribute to the economy versus those who claim to have an income without any true verification ... although I doubt the entire government got together to have a pow wow on that subject either.

 

It's sad how many farang apparently face sleepless nights worried about whether the Thai government or the majority of Thai people really loves them, I mean really, truly, for sure, loves them.

[skatewash]

Based on what we know now (not what we think, or hope, or wish), the embassy income letter is a mandatory requirement to proceed with the income method.  That may or may not change in the future. 

 

Thai Immigration doesn't *have* to do *anything* regarding the income method.  It can continue unchanged going forward, and an argument based on the principle of inertia would argue that's the most likely outcome.  No embassy income letter means no income method.  That's not going to change because four embassies think (or hope or wish) it would, it's only going to change if Thai immigration wants it to.

 

The only reason not to get an embassy income letter is if staying in Thailand isn't worth more than $50 to you.  That's the only logical position I can see at the moment.

 

[orchidfan]

2 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

A couple of points: a) It probably will not create a mass exodus, and b) If it does, the government won’t much care. We are not that important.

 

It appears that when the dust settles we’ll see a pronounced emphasis on agents (who will come up with a variety of creative ways to prove financials) and the Big BJ will be hailed as their patron saint.

 

Immigration officers are not equipped, prepared for, or inclined to wade though crowds of farangs with their piles of mysterious farang retirement documentation. The embassy income letters made it relatively painless...but now it's too hard….and no real rewards.

 

So much easier to deal with a group of polite, obsequious, Thai-speaking, gift-bearing agents. The work will be much, much easier and a steady stream of agents will provide a steady stream of financial incentives.

 

The “No Tips” signs really mean: “We don’t want tips from farangs, but safe, hassle-free commissions from agents are perfectly acceptable.”

 

I noticed the No Tips (small red sign) on the desk at IO the other day whilst doing my 90 day  reporting.

Funny....it's only in English...not Thai as well. Directed at one group?

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Too many knickers in twists over this. Fact is, there will be workarounds, there always are, it just takes time for the hoops and hurdles to be rearranged. 

[bkk6060]

If the 50 bucks will ruin your life and cause stress (like it does for many) then do not do it go in and try your chances.

Good luck....

[Dante99]

6 hours ago, orchidfan said:

I noticed the No Tips (small red sign) on the desk at IO the other day whilst doing my 90 day  reporting.

Funny....it's only in English...not Thai as well. Directed at one group?

Right, directed at one group, their customers almost all of whom could not read it if it were in Thai.

[HHTel]

16 hours ago, bprhodes said:

This will change, if it doesn’t they will be facing a mass exodus.

Firstly, if all foreigners getting extensions based on income were to leave, it wouldn't even be noticed!

 

Secondly, several offices (including mine) have stated that NO embassy letters will be acceptable, not just the four embassies who have stopped letters/affidavits.