UK Pension Proof of Income

[superal]

Can anyone tell me if the UK Embassy in Bangkok will accept proof of pension income from my bank statements as opposed to formal pension paperwork in order to receive the affirmation of income letter .

[EL159]

No. You need a letter/ letters from your pension provider(s). Surely not difficult as long as you re telling the truth? Get your pension provider to send you a word document which you can then print off here.

[JohnC]

No need to print it, just take a picture or scan the letter and e mail to the embassy, I have three pension letters, took pictures of all of them , emailed as an attachment and ten working days later my proof of income letter arrived along with printed copies of my proof! 

[superal]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No need to print it, just take a picture or scan the letter and e mail to the embassy, I have three pension letters, took pictures of all of them , emailed as an attachment and ten working days later my proof of income letter arrived along with printed copies of my proof! 

Thanks for your reply ,

                              I was hoping that the basic UK state pension that shows on my bank statement as

DWP ( Department of working pensions ) would suffice . My experience with them is they do not like or cannot email and only send letters but I will call them Monday . My private pension company will, I am

sure , send me confirmation . 

[elviajero]

YES they will.

 

When you request the letter you state how much your income is and send some form of evidence. A bank statement showing that regular income will be accepted.

 

Because the UK embassy don’t and won’t  actually verify the source of income — as required by immigration — is the reason why they are being stopped.

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

YES they will.

 

When you request the letter you state how much your income is and send some form of evidence. A bank statement showing that regular income will be accepted.

 

Because the UK embassy don’t and won’t  actually verify the source of income — as required by immigration — is the reason why they are being stopped.

Absolutely correct. Been there and done it.

[clifric]

I raised the matter with the UK Embassy to refer to the information I supplied annually; namely a copy of my P60 (statement of gross and net pension from my pension fund and shows income tax deducted to HM Revenue & Customs(HMRC)) and a letter from the Department of Work & Pensions (DWP) stating my State Pension amount. I asked why, since these are both official documents, the Embassy could not prove my income to Thai Immigration Department.

 

The answer was that they could not check this with HMRC and DWP as it was against the Data Protection Act. I advised them that they were giving out incorrect information as they copuld check with those departments provided I gave written permission for them to do so. Silence from the Embassy and my MP.

[Seekingasylum]

Their absurd response is clearly evidence that they presumably do not want to provide this service, the reason for which is mystifying given that they receive fees disproportionately large considering the time and effort invested.

A bank statement evidencing the source of pensionable income, whether it be the state pension allowance and/or otherwise, is quite sufficient to verify income claims. Their idiotic statement that they need to verify information with the HMRC and DWP is quite risible, particularly if a P60 had been produced. The British embassy needs to come clean on this subject - if it is simply a case of them not wanting to do it because of a perceived need to cut costs, then say so but making up stupid weasel-worded half-arsed excuses is just so puerile. 

Furthermore, their information as to how to proceed without an income letter is quite dreadful given that their suggestion to transfer into a Thai bank account 65,000 baht every month was never a requirement of the Thai Police Acts which simply required the applicant to "show" evidence of a monthly income. The point is, many British retirees who have bought their condos or houses and retired here some years ago have quite happily subsisted on a budget of, say, 40,000 baht per month which they have augmented with modest savings to qualify for their extensions by taking  the combined route. How are they to prove this now? 

 

[OJAS]

51 minutes ago, clifric said:

The answer was that they could not check this with HMRC and DWP as it was against the Data Protection Act. I advised them that they were giving out incorrect information as they copuld check with those departments provided I gave written permission for them to do so. Silence from the Embassy and my MP.

The British Embassy have been pretty adept at giving out incorrect information since making their announcement - as also evidenced by their BS nonsensical claim that monthly income sighted in a Thai bank account will, in future, be acceptable to Immigration without a letter!

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

The British Embassy have been pretty adept at giving out incorrect information since making their announcement - as also evidenced by their BS nonsensical claim that monthly income sighted in a Thai bank account will, in future, be acceptable to Immigration without a letter!

It may be later, we just don't know, the TI has been very quiet on what is now going to be acceptable.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, superal said:

Thanks for your reply ,

                              I was hoping that the basic UK state pension that shows on my bank statement as

DWP ( Department of working pensions ) would suffice . 

It will suffice. It’s all you need to supply.

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, EL159 said:

No. You need a letter/ letters from your pension provider(s). Surely not difficult as long as you re telling the truth? Get your pension provider to send you a word document which you can then print off here.

This is simply NOT true. I've been using downloaded bank statements of my UK bank for years now for my income letter applications at the BE.

 

I've always printed off a full three months of bank statements then highlighted the relevant pension/rental income I receive each month.

 

Probably all change after the 12th though.

[jimn]

4 hours ago, EL159 said:

No. You need a letter/ letters from your pension provider(s). Surely not difficult as long as you re telling the truth? Get your pension provider to send you a word document which you can then print off here.

Totally incorrect information. If the OP can show regular income on his UK bank statements preferably showing where the income is coming from they will accept it 100%. To the OP take photos of your information close up, print out the application and credit card form and send by email, much quicker than post. I did mine like this last month, allow 10 working days.

[Greenhill]

5 hours ago, superal said:

Thanks for your reply ,

                              I was hoping that the basic UK state pension that shows on my bank statement as

DWP ( Department of working pensions ) would suffice . My experience with them is they do not like or cannot email and only send letters but I will call them Monday . My private pension company will, I am

sure , send me confirmation . 

You get more than 65,000 Thai Baht equivalent from your UK state pension??    You are a lucky boy!!

[Greenhill]

49 minutes ago, sumrit said:

This is simply NOT true. I've been using downloaded bank statements of my UK bank for years now for my income letter applications at the BE.

 

I've always printed off a full three months of bank statements then highlighted the relevant pension/rental income I receive each month.

 

Probably all change after the 12th though.

This is correct but I can't understand why the BE doesn't take UK bank statements as 'verifiable proof' of income!    I would think they are very difficult to forge!?

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Greenhill said:

This is correct but I can't understand why the BE doesn't take UK bank statements as 'verifiable proof' of income!    I would think they are very difficult to forge!?

A bank statement, and many other documents, are very easy to forge.

 

The BE do take bank statements as 'proof' of income, but they do not verify the authenticity of the document or verify the income with the income source. Therefore, they do not meet Thai immigrations requirement of proof of income.

Edited December 1, 2018 by elviajero

[superal]

2 hours ago, Greenhill said:

You get more than 65,000 Thai Baht equivalent from your UK state pension??    You are a lucky boy!!

What gave you that idea ? If you read the post correctly I am asking if the bank statement showing the  DWP ( Department of Working Pensions ) entry would suffice as opposed to formal papers .

 

I am very thankful for the positive replies as they have been very helpful .

[jimn]

8 hours ago, superal said:

Thanks for your reply ,

                              I was hoping that the basic UK state pension that shows on my bank statement as

DWP ( Department of working pensions ) would suffice . My experience with them is they do not like or cannot email and only send letters but I will call them Monday . My private pension company will, I am

sure , send me confirmation . 

Just to confirm they do accept email. I actually states it at the bottom of the latest application form.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

A bank statement, and many other documents, are very easy to forge.

 

The BE do take bank statements as 'proof' of income, but they do not verify the authenticity of the document or verify the income with the income source. Therefore, they do not meet Thai immigrations requirement of proof of income.

Other embassies have no problem with just certifying the documents but not verifying the income at source and apparently the IO can live with that. We don't know what the real new (if any) requirements from TI were, no letter from them has been shown either in English or Thai and TI isn't saying much either, we just get the BE version where seemingly no minutes from the meeting were made, strange for such an important decision.

[Chongalulu]

9 hours ago, EL159 said:

No. You need a letter/ letters from your pension provider(s). Surely not difficult as long as you re telling the truth? Get your pension provider to send you a word document which you can then print off here.

NO YOU DON'T. It even tells you on their website that a bank statement is all that’s required...and this works in practice from 3 other sources of information apart from mine. Please stop just saying what you think MIGHT be the case.

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, clifric said:

I raised the matter with the UK Embassy to refer to the information I supplied annually; namely a copy of my P60 (statement of gross and net pension from my pension fund and shows income tax deducted to HM Revenue & Customs(HMRC)) and a letter from the Department of Work & Pensions (DWP) stating my State Pension amount. I asked why, since these are both official documents, the Embassy could not prove my income to Thai Immigration Department.

 

The answer was that they could not check this with HMRC and DWP as it was against the Data Protection Act. I advised them that they were giving out incorrect information as they copuld check with those departments provided I gave written permission for them to do so. Silence from the Embassy and my MP.

Indeed. All that is needed to comply with Data Protection regulation is your permission for them to approach the DWP and/ or your private pension provider. I can understand that an income made up from a wide variety of sources, such as company pension schemes, dividend payments, bank interest etc might prove time consuming and tricky, but if, like me the source is just the DWP and one private pension provider, not so difficult. The Data Protection excuse in itself is not valid.

[newatthis]

It doesn't matter anymore. The 4 embassies are not going to do the letter. Let's not harp on it.  Let's just wait and see what TI request.

[Fred31]

The BE quite simply does not want to bother, too much trouble and that is the case. And now all other Embassies follow suit, they are all birds of a feather. The BE does not even have the excuse of no money since they sold their land recently

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, Fred31 said:

The BE quite simply does not want to bother, too much trouble and that is the case. And now all other Embassies follow suit, they are all birds of a feather. The BE does not even have the excuse of no money since they sold their land recently

If I remember correctly the BE said they have 250 applications for income letters per month. That's an average of 12.5 per working day. To comply with immigrations requirements they would need to contact the source of income being claimed by the applicants which would create a whole new administrative nightmare. And the cost to applicants would probably double at least.

 

Not all sources of income would reply timely, meaning the BE would have to spend time chasing. Some sources would refuse to provide the information directly to the BE and only send to the applicant, defeating the object of the exercise. Some sources would refuse to reply. So I am not surprised the BE and others are refusing.

[superal]

On 12/1/2018 at 7:07 PM, soalbundy said:

Other embassies have no problem with just certifying the documents but not verifying the income at source and apparently the IO can live with that. We don't know what the real new (if any) requirements from TI were, no letter from them has been shown either in English or Thai and TI isn't saying much either, we just get the BE version where seemingly no minutes from the meeting were made, strange for such an important decision.

Because there were no formal meetings with the embassies involved . They were simply told that they were being relieved of the income affirmation service unless they could guarantee all applicants supporting documents / statements were authentic . Why did the TI stop there ?  Should have included all of the applicants passports as they fall within the application pack , now that would cause big logistical problems .

It is the T.I who have caused the debacle and all that was needed was for the system to be tweaked by say each applicant to provide a lawful endorsement for every document that would have released the embassies from any legalities .

Does this income affirmation letter operate in other countries and if so what are the rules ?

 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, superal said:

Because there were no formal meetings with the embassies involved . They were simply told that they were being relieved of the income affirmation service unless they could guarantee all applicants supporting documents / statements were authentic . Why did the TI stop there ?  Should have included all of the applicants passports as they fall within the application pack , now that would cause big logistical problems .

It is the T.I who have caused the debacle and all that was needed was for the system to be tweaked by say each applicant to provide a lawful endorsement for every document that would have released the embassies from any legalities .

Does this income affirmation letter operate in other countries and if so what are the rules ?

 

I don't think any embassy does or can verify income at source, many embassies apply strict criteria to certify income on hand from the applicants documents, others don't and it is these that immigration IMO is attacking (and quite rightly so). The certification by the embassies is the simplest method for the IO's after the deposit 400/800k method and is not something that they want to discard, I think there was an unfortunate choice of words used (verify) when all they wanted was a stricter certification (my opinion only). As far as we know embassies haven't been individually officially informed that their letters won't be accepted in future. The German embassy that does apply strict criteria to its certification has informed me orally and in writing that they will continue to issue the letters in the future.

[superal]

24 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't think any embassy does or can verify income at source, many embassies apply strict criteria to certify income on hand from the applicants documents, others don't and it is these that immigration IMO is attacking (and quite rightly so). The certification by the embassies is the simplest method for the IO's after the deposit 400/800k method and is not something that they want to discard, I think there was an unfortunate choice of words used (verify) when all they wanted was a stricter certification (my opinion only). As far as we know embassies haven't been individually officially informed that their letters won't be accepted in future. The German embassy that does apply strict criteria to its certification has informed me orally and in writing that they will continue to issue the letters in the future.

For the T.I. and embassies not to be able to find a solution in a matter of days tells me that there is no concern for expats involved . As if the visa system is not complicated enough for the layman .

        Not sure if this is a rumour , fact or has been posted here but I was told that the new chief of Thai Immigration supposedly approached the Thai PM and suggested that farangs liquid asset's be taken into consideration with visa applications . The answer was no .   

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, superal said:

For the T.I. and embassies not to be able to find a solution in a matter of days tells me that there is no concern for expats involved . As if the visa system is not complicated enough for the layman .

        Not sure if this is a rumour , fact or has been posted here but I was told that the new chief of Thai Immigration supposedly approached the Thai PM and suggested that farangs liquid asset's be taken into consideration with visa applications . The answer was no .   

Maybe, maybe not, I don't give rumours any attention. Individuals aren't really important to governments anywhere especially if it involves work, only large blocks of individuals whose fate could end up in the press are taken seriously and expats are low down on the scale of importance so I don't expect any action from the 4 embassies. Expats are of some importance to TI, we are their bread and butter so to speak, fewer expats lessens their importance and influence so I do expect a positive outcome eventually if only out of self interest.

[Moonlover]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, OJAS said:

The British Embassy have been pretty adept at giving out incorrect information since making their announcement - as also evidenced by their BS nonsensical claim that monthly income sighted in a Thai bank account will, in future, be acceptable to Immigration without a letter!

What evidence can you present in support of this comment? And I mean EVIDENCE, not yet more rumour and hearsay.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Moonlover

[soalbundy]

34 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

What evidence can you present in support of this comment? And I mean EVIDENCE, not yet more rumour and hearsay.

Well they have stated, as the post said, that monthly income in a Thai bank account will be accepted as proof of income, that isn't official TI info (yet) and most IO's still say "where's the embassy letter''. There are regulations and reality.