Foreign Worker's Rights

[Sing_Sling]

You're full of it.

There is no law for a seven-day work-week and it certainly isn't the standard.

Go to any hawker centre at night and you will see foreign workers with their mobile phones, you will see maids chatting on their mobile phones.

You are talking crap.

The situation here in no way mirrors that of the point of discussion.

[Mid]

your opion .......................

may not work when wearing rose colored glasses ,

thanxs for telling me that their all ok , i'll rest better now

[Sing_Sling]

Ok, I apologise for getting personal, it was uncalled for as you were not rude to me. Fair cop.

Please provide proof of your assertion . . .simply saying 'google it' doesn't do anything.

I can go to my neighbourhood hawker stall this evening and take some photos of foreign workers if you wish or maids in our condo chatting among themselves or on the phone. Anytime.

I have lived in Japan and Malaysia and know for a fact that foreign workers there are also not locked up at 8 and have no right to a handphone.

What you are saying is utter nonsense. Saying 'google it' is not proof. Worker abuse is punishable by law, not supported by law as in Thailand - sadly the sentences are too lenient most times - but it is certainly not institutionalised abuse.

(Their = possessive. They're = they are)

Edited February 21, 2007 by Sing_Sling

[bkkandrew]

your opion .......................

may not work when wearing rose colored glasses ,

thanxs for telling me that their all ok , i'll rest better now

No. You miss the point. Employers all over the world exploit employees. I shagged my 16 y.o. trainee PA 10 years ago - in the UK - but I don' think that that qualifies the UK to go on your list!!!

No - the point is that this is a LAW, enforced by the GOVERNMENT, that makes it it astonishing, barbaric and defacto slavery. Anyone who defends this law ought to be ashamed. It is also, without doubt, the most telling indictment of Thailand I am aware of to date..

[Mid]

One Chinese worker, Lu Zang Kao, described conditions at a Tel Aviv construction site to the hotline: "We worked at least 10 hours a day. I was living with other workers in very harsh conditions in a caravan site. We were told that anyone using a mobile phone would be deported back to China. We were not allowed to leave the building site, even after working hours. And three times a day, all of us were counted to make sure that no one ran away."

CITE

please refer also to my original post on page #1 of the thread ..........................

[Mid]

HERE's another ..................

"The two incidents prompted the Thai workers to vent their pent-up anger at the management, so they rioted," it reported. In addition to the bans on alcohol, cellphones and Thai television in the dormitory, the Thai workers were required to use tokens in the dorm store, but they allege they were short-changed when exchanging the script for real money, it added. Of the 1,700 Thai workers in the five-story dorm, some 300 took part in the riot, setting fire to management offices and cars, burning clothes and hurling rocks at police who responded to the fire report.

[ColPyat]

The situation here in no way mirrors that of the point of discussion.

I remember reading an article a few days ago that Malaysia is considering introducing a similar legislation about confining foreign workers to their quarters at 8 pm.

[bkkandrew]

For goodness sake - understand the difference between bad company discrimination and exploitation (by their POLICIES) and racist GOVERNMENT LAWS that create a "slave" class in the populace. Think about this sentance before your next post!

[Mid]

give me a break .......................

there's plenty more and they wouldn't be able to do it with out complicit approval from their governments ................

[Meerkat]

No - the point is that this is a LAW, enforced by the GOVERNMENT, that makes it it astonishing, barbaric and defacto slavery. Anyone who defends this law ought to be ashamed. It is also, without doubt, the most telling indictment of Thailand I am aware of to date..

Using HK as an example, the problem is that whilst maids (the bulk of HK's imported labour) have some rights enshrined in law, they are routinely flouted and the system itself makes it nigh on impossible for them to gain any legal retribution.

Come to think of it, a law introduced a few years ago whilst I was still living there effectively taxed all foreign maids - and only foreign maids - at a higher rate than any other section of the population who earned the same amount. The government pooh-poohed any suggestion of racism...

Bear in mind too that almost anyone is allowed right-of-abode and by extension permanent residency in HK after living there legally for 7 years. Except for foreign maids that is...

I'm not condoning the abysmal treatment here in Thailand, but they certainly aren't alone.

[bkkandrew]

The situation here in no way mirrors that of the point of discussion.

I remember reading an article a few days ago that Malaysia is considering introducing a similar legislation about confining foreign workers to their quarters at 8 pm.

Well - was it introduced? Remember, in 1998 the Labour Government in the UK "considered" inventing a game, called "Surfball", to be premiered in the Millennium Dome. The idea was quickly and quietly dropped as absurd, indicating that Governments of every hue sometimes have wacky ideas that are then smiled at and dropped...

Edited February 21, 2007 by bkkandrew

[bkkandrew]

give me a break .......................

there's plenty more and they wouldn't be able to do it with out complicit approval from their governments ................

The key is in your own post:

comprehension

noun

the ability to understand completely and be aware of a situation, facts, etc:

There may be complicity and other bad practice, but think - somewhere along the line the Thai Government in Phuket (and elsewhere??) has actually come up with this slavery idea, considered it, voted on it and adopted it as LAW! That is the point where the Thais have departed from human decency and should be ashamed...

Edited February 21, 2007 by bkkandrew

[ColPyat]

The situation here in no way mirrors that of the point of discussion.

I remember reading an article a few days ago that Malaysia is considering introducing a similar legislation about confining foreign workers to their quarters at 8 pm.

Well - was it introduced? Remember, in 1998 the Labour Government in the UK "considered" inventing a game, called "Surfball", to be premiered in the Millennium Dome. The idea was quickly and quietly dropped as absurd, indicating that Governments of every hue sometimes have wacky ideas that are then smiled at and dropped...

I don't know, i just slightly remember having read that a few days ago.

[chuchok]

Singapore , Malaysia , HK , Japan , Korea .............................................................

Even if what you say is was correct,it doesn't make it right.

[Mid]

at no stage did I ever say it was right

[JustAnotherFarang]

In many ways, the situation mirrors America employment of illegal Mexicans with the disparity in wages and workers rights dissolved and accepted by both parties in search of cheap labour and for the immigrants, some quick and not so easy money earned the hard way. But I dont hear people sledging the USA for using and abusing human rights the way you are sleighting thai people.

The problem with Burma is that everyone talks but no one seems to do anything about it. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, until then, we have the present status quo.

JAF

I think you missed the point.

Are Mexicans, who are working legally in America, confined to their quarters at 8pm, refused mobile phones, and sometimes murdered rather than their wages paid to them? No.

(It in no way mirrors the US - Mexican situation)

Of course this does not take away from the fact that the situation in Burma is deplorable. It's just a different topic, for a different thread.

I remember, after the disaster in Phuket, the police went around some hotels and looted the safes. Their answer was that Burmese migrants stole police uniforms and did it. This was accepted by all the Thais - case closed. Thais hate the Burmese and treat them accordingly. There is no law and order, or human rights in this country. Have you not listened to the national anthem?

I agree whole heartedly with BkkAndrew's thoughts.

I dont think I missed any point when I said I agreed with a previous poster regarding why Burmese people would choose to work here and not return home but I do think you chose to overlook mine.

Too say that this situation in no way mirrors the American/Mexican situation is just not true. I truly believe that Americas treatment of Mexican immigrants is appalling considering their lofty position in this world and in MANY ways (and that obviously does not mean all) mirrors the treatment of Thais towards the Burmese neighbours. For example poor wages, no healthcare system, no social security net, few legal rights and of course extra judicial punishment (oh yes, most certainly in America)...............I could go on but it might appear to you that I am sleighting America unfairly whereas I am only drawing a comparison with the way a lot of countries treat immigrants. I think when our parent countries have put their own houses in order regarding the mistreatment of immigrants then we might be in a better position to criticize and help Thai people understand the error of their ways. It took many decades for us to change our ways regarding racial equality and it is a far from perfect system that we have today, more works needs to be done before we can sit proud in our ivory towers. One thing is certain, snide arguments, racial slurs or suggesting someone is from the Klu Klux Klan and then posting a picture of a klansman, well they are all poor examples and only help to inflame and/or convolute the argument.

Pray tell me..........what is it that you or anyone else who is writing on this particular topic doing to help any Burmese people. If we all care so much and feel Thais care little or not at all, then do something about it and start setting a better example. Even if it is only to befriend and help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......... As I said previously, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

To save one man is to save the world entire. If you can make a difference then do it and do it with love and compassion for those that need it most.

JAF

[bkkandrew]

In many ways, the situation mirrors America employment of illegal Mexicans with the disparity in wages and workers rights dissolved and accepted by both parties in search of cheap labour and for the immigrants, some quick and not so easy money earned the hard way. But I dont hear people sledging the USA for using and abusing human rights the way you are sleighting thai people.

The problem with Burma is that everyone talks but no one seems to do anything about it. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, until then, we have the present status quo.

JAF

I think you missed the point.

Are Mexicans, who are working legally in America, confined to their quarters at 8pm, refused mobile phones, and sometimes murdered rather than their wages paid to them? No.

(It in no way mirrors the US - Mexican situation)

Of course this does not take away from the fact that the situation in Burma is deplorable. It's just a different topic, for a different thread.

I remember, after the disaster in Phuket, the police went around some hotels and looted the safes. Their answer was that Burmese migrants stole police uniforms and did it. This was accepted by all the Thais - case closed. Thais hate the Burmese and treat them accordingly. There is no law and order, or human rights in this country. Have you not listened to the national anthem?

I agree whole heartedly with BkkAndrew's thoughts.

I dont think I missed any point when I said I agreed with a previous poster regarding why Burmese people would choose to work here and not return home but I do think you chose to overlook mine.

Too say that this situation in no way mirrors the American/Mexican situation is just not true. I truly believe that Americas treatment of Mexican immigrants is appalling considering their lofty position in this world and in MANY ways (and that obviously does not mean all) mirrors the treatment of Thais towards the Burmese neighbours. For example poor wages, no healthcare system, no social security net, few legal rights and of course extra judicial punishment (oh yes, most certainly in America)...............I could go on but it might appear to you that I am sleighting America unfairly whereas I am only drawing a comparison with the way a lot of countries treat immigrants. I think when our parent countries have put their own houses in order regarding the mistreatment of immigrants then we might be in a better position to criticize and help Thai people understand the error of their ways. It took many decades for us to change our ways regarding racial equality and it is a far from perfect system that we have today, more works needs to be done before we can sit proud in our ivory towers. One thing is certain, snide arguments, racial slurs or suggesting someone is from the Klu Klux Klan and then posting a picture of a klansman, well they are all poor examples and only help to inflame and/or convolute the argument.

Pray tell me..........what is it that you or anyone else who is writing on this particular topic doing to help any Burmese people. If we all care so much and feel Thais care little or not at all, then do something about it and start setting a better example. Even if it is only to befriend and help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......... As I said previously, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

To save one man is to save the world entire. If you can make a difference then do it and do it with love and compassion for those that need it most.

JAF

My business partner on a number of projects over the past 3 years is Burmese...

[bkkandrew]

In many ways, the situation mirrors America employment of illegal Mexicans with the disparity in wages and workers rights dissolved and accepted by both parties in search of cheap labour and for the immigrants, some quick and not so easy money earned the hard way. But I dont hear people sledging the USA for using and abusing human rights the way you are sleighting thai people.

The problem with Burma is that everyone talks but no one seems to do anything about it. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, until then, we have the present status quo.

JAF

I agree whole heartedly with BkkAndrew's thoughts.

I dont think I missed any point when I said I agreed with a previous poster regarding why Burmese people would choose to work here and not return home but I do think you chose to overlook mine.

Too say that this situation in no way mirrors the American/Mexican situation is just not true. I truly believe that Americas treatment of Mexican immigrants is appalling considering their lofty position in this world and in MANY ways (and that obviously does not mean all) mirrors the treatment of Thais towards the Burmese neighbours. For example poor wages, no healthcare system, no social security net, few legal rights and of course extra judicial punishment (oh yes, most certainly in America)...............I could go on but it might appear to you that I am sleighting America unfairly whereas I am only drawing a comparison with the way a lot of countries treat immigrants. I think when our parent countries have put their own houses in order regarding the mistreatment of immigrants then we might be in a better position to criticize and help Thai people understand the error of their ways. It took many decades for us to change our ways regarding racial equality and it is a far from perfect system that we have today, more works needs to be done before we can sit proud in our ivory towers. One thing is certain, snide arguments, racial slurs or suggesting someone is from the Klu Klux Klan and then posting a picture of a klansman, well they are all poor examples and only help to inflame and/or convolute the argument.

Pray tell me..........what is it that you or anyone else who is writing on this particular topic doing to help any Burmese people. If we all care so much and feel Thais care little or not at all, then do something about it and start setting a better example. Even if it is only to befriend and help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......... As I said previously, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

To save one man is to save the world entire. If you can make a difference then do it and do it with love and compassion for those that need it most.

JAF

It is also called humour and irony...

I note no response re. helping Burmese people, I wonder what your efforts extend to...? As you indeed said, "talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words".

[JustAnotherFarang]

No, sorry it is not humourous nor ironic, it was tasteless but you wouldnt want to admit that would you, you being so much better than the person you where slandering.....

And I did not say but I do all of the things I mentioned above.........help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......

sorry, what was it that you do for burmese people again ??

Maybe your talk is like your humour, failing to reach those who would appreciate it

JAF

Edited February 21, 2007 by JustAnotherFarang

[h90]

Recently, I came across this article in the on-line version of Phuket Gazette:

Thursday, February 15, 2007

Police to crack down on foreign labor

PHUKET: Police have been ordered to crack down on alien laborers using mobile phones or found on the streets after 8 pm, Phuket Vice-Governor Vorapot Rattasima said this morning.

At a meeting at Provincial Hall, V/Gov Worapot said that he had received reports that alien laborers were leaving their registered place of abode after 8 pm and freely using mobile phones, both of which were prohibited by provincial order in December.

“I have met with traffic police and told them to arrest any alien laborers they find on the streets after 8 pm. I would also like the media to look out for and report any violators,” he said.

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=5518

So, if I understand this correctly, these people are not allowed on the street after 8 PM and are not allowed to have mobile phones? I just wonder how this can be justified in front of human rights and equality. Are these people slaves?

Thats the same in many other countries.....

Would you care to state which ones?

I know from the arab countries (I can definitly remember the situation in Saudi Arabia, but the others were not different I think) because a friend from Europe was there.

Usually 12 hours working day, 6 days per week, if necessary more. Sometimes he had to work 18 hours/day. Not allow to go anywhere beside construction side and place for sleeping.

Extrem good salary, extrem good for middle europe standards.....

[OlRedEyes]

OMG, another thread with so much spin going on in trying to defend the indefensible that it makes you dizzy.

Why bother? We all know that whatever the Thai do, everybody else is worse.

[jasreeve17]

Singapore , Malaysia , HK , Japan , Korea .............................................................

Even if what you say is was correct,it doesn't make it right.

I used to work in Korea, and it's not true there. Mid made a statement with no foundation whatsoever. In fact it was a complete fabrication. (HK, Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, etc, etc - none of them either ban mobile phones, by law, or keep migrant workers inside their abode after 8pm, by law.)

What is so difficult to understand Mid?

1) The law states.....

2) Bad things are done by bad people, outside of the law....

We are talking about number 1. Not number 2.

[Siripon]

I think it's worth noting that this order is from Phuket and is not nationwide, it's odd how statements from government officials there often display anti-foreigner attitudes, I remember a conference there a few years ago when Dr Premsak, ex TRT, now พระ (monk) Premsak suggested increasing the work permit to 300,000 baht for westerners. He himself is actually Khon Kaen, but there are frequent directives from the local authorities 'clamping down' on foreigners. Perhaps all the tourist income goes to their heads.

[jasreeve17]

I dont think I missed any point when I said I agreed with a previous poster regarding why Burmese people would choose to work here and not return home but I do think you chose to overlook mine.

Too say that this situation in no way mirrors the American/Mexican situation is just not true. I truly believe that Americas treatment of Mexican immigrants is appalling considering their lofty position in this world and in MANY ways (and that obviously does not mean all) mirrors the treatment of Thais towards the Burmese neighbours. For example poor wages, no healthcare system, no social security net, few legal rights and of course extra judicial punishment (oh yes, most certainly in America)...............I could go on but it might appear to you that I am sleighting America unfairly whereas I am only drawing a comparison with the way a lot of countries treat immigrants. I think when our parent countries have put their own houses in order regarding the mistreatment of immigrants then we might be in a better position to criticize and help Thai people understand the error of their ways. It took many decades for us to change our ways regarding racial equality and it is a far from perfect system that we have today, more works needs to be done before we can sit proud in our ivory towers. One thing is certain, snide arguments, racial slurs or suggesting someone is from the Klu Klux Klan and then posting a picture of a klansman, well they are all poor examples and only help to inflame and/or convolute the argument.

Pray tell me..........what is it that you or anyone else who is writing on this particular topic doing to help any Burmese people. If we all care so much and feel Thais care little or not at all, then do something about it and start setting a better example. Even if it is only to befriend and help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......... As I said previously, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

To save one man is to save the world entire. If you can make a difference then do it and do it with love and compassion for those that need it most.

JAF

I agree with many of your points.

But, please look at the first post. It is talking about the laws that Thailand has for migrant workers, and gives two specific examples.

Many Mexicans are no doubt treated badly by employers in America. This is not law.

Many migrant workers are treated badly by employers. This is not law.

Many workers are treated badly by employers. This is not law.

I'm often treated badly by my girlfriend. She thinks it's law.

Burma needs change, and Burmese people need help. True.

Bringing information to the attention of the masses is often a part of that change. Thai Visa is not the masses, but it is a start. Talking about these situations is a start - not the be all and end all, just a start. Don't put it down, everything has a starting point.

On one hand you make a point about helping Burmese people, whilst on the other seeming to defend (or at the very least, belittle and dilute) these Thai laws that abuse the same Burmese people.

For me, Emperor_tud phrased it very well:-

"Disgusting breach of human rights and the people who are attempting to defend it should be utterly ashamed."

Edited February 21, 2007 by jasreeve17

[Mid]

Open thy eyes

Lee Kuan Yew has acknowledged this parasitical role of

feeding off the cheap labour and misery of surrounding

countries as a permanent feature of Singapore's polity.

"In another ten years, we will not get workers from Malaysia or

Thailand. In another fifteen years, no more from Indonesia.

We may have to go to Burma, Sri Lanka, because I don't think

their problems are going to go away that easily." (STW, 1

September 1990)

[Siripon]

Open thy eyes

Lee Kuan Yew has acknowledged this parasitical role of

feeding off the cheap labour and misery of surrounding

countries as a permanent feature of Singapore's polity.

"In another ten years, we will not get workers from Malaysia or

Thailand. In another fifteen years, no more from Indonesia.

We may have to go to Burma, Sri Lanka, because I don't think

their problems are going to go away that easily." (STW, 1

September 1990)

And Singapore's problems won't go away too easily if Indonesia continues to refuse to export sand to them. Now if Malaysia turned off the water.....

[jasreeve17]

Open thy eyes

Lee Kuan Yew has acknowledged this parasitical role of

feeding off the cheap labour and misery of surrounding

countries as a permanent feature of Singapore's polity.

"In another ten years, we will not get workers from Malaysia or

Thailand. In another fifteen years, no more from Indonesia.

We may have to go to Burma, Sri Lanka, because I don't think

their problems are going to go away that easily." (STW, 1

September 1990)

What is so difficult to understand Mid?

1) The law states.....

2) Bad things are done by bad people, outside of the law....

We are talking about number 1. Not number 2.

This is getting boring.... I'll try keywords to make it easier for you: law, mobiles, 8pm.

[Sing_Sling]

. . . and then Mid's tag-line . . . ironic, really.

[Mid]

. . . and then Mid's tag-line . . . ironic, really.

As mentioned above, Singapore excludes domestic workers from the Employment Act, which protects labor rights such as a minimum of one rest day per week, a maximum of forty-four work hours per week, limits on salary deductions, and fourteen days of paid sick leave.64 Although domestic workers enter contractual agreements in which they exchange services in return for compensation, the Employment Act states:

open thy eyes

[Mid]

Open thy eyes

Lee Kuan Yew has acknowledged this parasitical role of

feeding off the cheap labour and misery of surrounding

countries as a permanent feature of Singapore's polity.

"In another ten years, we will not get workers from Malaysia or

Thailand. In another fifteen years, no more from Indonesia.

We may have to go to Burma, Sri Lanka, because I don't think

their problems are going to go away that easily." (STW, 1

September 1990)

What is so difficult to understand Mid?

1) The law states.....

2) Bad things are done by bad people, outside of the law....

We are talking about number 1. Not number 2.

This is getting boring.... I'll try keywords to make it easier for you: law, mobiles, 8pm.

Lee Kuan Yew