Foreign Worker's Rights

[penguin]

This is what was mooted for Malaysia but at least maybe now they have seen the light.

The Associated Press

Wednesday, February 21, 2007

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: Malaysia's government backed away Wednesday from a proposal to confine foreign workers to their living quarters, acknowledging that such a drastic move would have "implications."

"The government hasn't taken a position on it yet," Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak told reporters.

Foreign laborers in Malaysia and human rights groups were up in arms following news reports over the weekend that Home Minister Radzi Sheikh Ahamad intended to propose a bill next month calling for confinement of some 2.5 million foreign workers.

"We will have to study the implications. If we have to do something drastic then we will consider all implications," Najib said.

Malaysia's police Chief Musa Hassan said last week that the proposal was meant to curb crime by monitoring the activities of foreign workers and restricting their movements. He said 5,000 crimes were committed by foreigners last year from a total of about 230,000.

Musa said that under the proposed legislation, foreign laborers would not be allowed to leave their homes unless they register, and their employers will be responsible for their movements.

Najib played down the implications of Musa's comments, saying this was just "a suggestion by the chief of police. He must be very concerned about some of the crimes committed by foreign workers in this country."

Malaysia has long attracted migrants, many fleeing poverty, from Southeast and South Asian countries like Indonesia, Myanmar, India, Bangladesh and China. Many of them end up doing menial work spurned by locals on plantations and in the construction industry.

But foreign workers, mostly Indonesians, are also blamed for crime and social problems. The government has said about 1.8 million foreigners work legally in Malaysia, while another 700,000 do not have proper papers.

There has been no reaction from the governments of the countries that send foreign laborers. Indian officials, speaking privately, said they can't react to news reports and would have to wait to see the proposed legislation.

In a statement, New York-based Human Rights Watch said the proposed new legislation would violate the workers' right to freedom of movement and put them at risk for other abuses.

"Instead of improving the situation, Malaysia's proposed foreign worker bill will make it dramatically worse," said Nisha Varia, senior researcher on women's rights in Asia for Human Rights Watch. "Its shocking that Malaysia is even considering a proposal that would give employers freedom to lock up workers."

Amnesty International noted that since only 2 percent of crimes committed last year were by foreign workers, "this proposal to link the escalation of crime with foreign workers seems to amount to racial profiling."

"It will instill fear and distrust within the migrant community, making them less likely to cooperate with criminal investigations or to seek police protection when victimized."

[astral]

Since when did foreign workers have rights?

[jasreeve17]

As mentioned above, Singapore excludes domestic workers from the Employment Act, which protects labor rights such as a minimum of one rest day per week, a maximum of forty-four work hours per week, limits on salary deductions, and fourteen days of paid sick leave.64 Although domestic workers enter contractual agreements in which they exchange services in return for compensation, the Employment Act states:

open thy eyes

Please don't waste my time again, reading through such a lengthy piece, with no evidence supporting your claim.

I am really, really bored now, but I'll try one LAST time:-

Thai. Law, bad, hurt, migrant workers. Fact. Proof? Yes - OP.

Disagree? Proof. Where?

[Mid]

Thai. Law, bad, hurt, migrant workers. Fact. Proof? Yes - OP.

please cite where I have disagreed ........................

[jasreeve17]

Thai. Law, bad, hurt, migrant workers. Fact. Proof? Yes - OP.

please cite where I have disagreed ........................

A quick check, shows you to be right in that respect.

You supported H90's claim that it was the same in other countries. You then gave five examples which were all wrong. I shouldn't have written "disagree". I should have written:-

Other countries. Law. Where? Proof?

Are you trying to sneak off on a technicality? "Yes M'lord I did have 20 kilos of cocaine in my possesion, and yes, I was intending to supply. But, the first officer in the door didn't show me a search warrant."

(A crazy, out of context example, I know. But I do like doing it, just as you like adding pictures - how nice they look too!)

[Mid]

Are you trying to sneak off on a technicality?

not at all , the whole exercise was to raise awareness .............

[JustAnotherFarang]

On one hand you make a point about helping Burmese people, whilst on the other seeming to defend (or at the very least, belittle and dilute) these Thai laws that abuse the same Burmese people.

For me, Emperor_tud phrased it very well:-

"Disgusting breach of human rights and the people who are attempting to defend it should be utterly ashamed."

I only ever agreed with the point (singular) that the Burmese dont exactly have much of a choice when it comes to working here or going home......... out of the frying pan into the fire so to speak. Dont know where anyone draws a conclusion that I am defending the Phuket local authorities missives regarding mobile phones and further harrasment of immigrant workers

So I have and feel no reason to be ashamed

JAF

[jasreeve17]

Are you trying to sneak off on a technicality?

not at all , the whole exercise was to raise awareness .............

Good on you, in that respect. And a valid point.

[bkkandrew]

No, sorry it is not humourous nor ironic, it was tasteless but you wouldnt want to admit that would you, you being so much better than the person you where slandering.....

And I did not say but I do all of the things I mentioned above.........help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......

sorry, what was it that you do for burmese people again ??

Maybe your talk is like your humour, failing to reach those who would appreciate it

JAF

You hypercritical buffoon.

You espouse helping Burmese families and give suggestions how to do so, then admit you don't actually follow your own advice!

Yet, I am in business with a Burmese man, with dependant wife, children etc. etc. Business that generates income that does all the things you talk about BUT DO NOT ACTUALLY DO!!

And then, to somehow show your utter inability to understand irony, you state that it would be good to :"help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......" and before" talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words."

Yes, indeed you are correct that my homour or irony will always fail to reach you, as you are clearly on another planet. One, I would add, that I, nor, I suspect, anyone else would care to visit!

I wish we had a muppet emoticon...

[bina]

I know from the arab countries (I can definitly remember the situation in Saudi Arabia, but the others were not different I think) because a friend from Europe was there.

Usually 12 hours working day, 6 days per week, if necessary more. Sometimes he had to work 18 hours/day. Not allow to go anywhere beside construction side and place for sleeping.

Extrem good salary, extrem good for middle europe standards.....

all countries seem to be similar: some have laws but the laws are not inforced. my (thai issan)husband is a foreign worker and is paid 4 shekels less per hour then the minimum wage as the law states. he is not covered by insurance as the law states. he often works up to 18 hours with one break for a meal. his boss (owner) does not allow him to visit me except on friday/saturday and one night in the middle of the week. he lives in a half dug out basement. he is lent out to work on other farms even though he could be arrested and imprisoned -- in spite of the fact that its actually the responsibility of the boss really. (we are working on marriage visa so walking on tip toe around his boss as to not rock the boat, so no complaining about wages hours or living conditions). but in general his boss is a basically a decent guy who is even kind, doesnt yell often, provides fresh drinking water during the day (many places dont) who thinks he is doing ok by his worker, as there are places which give less food, money and living conditions - thai workers hwo live in wooden crates turned into rooms, cow sheds, etc.

while working somewehre else, he was a witness in court for police brutality when foreign workers were handcuffed (using those plastic thingies used in agriculture dont know what they are called in english) and beaten by the immigration police even though they had up to date visas (again, the responsibitlity of the 'owner' not the worker) but their passports were held by the bosses so they couldnt run away so they were unable to provide identity papers to the police.

he at least is provided with a 50 kilo bag of rice a month for free and doesnt pay for his basement. most are not so lucky. they are over charged, not paid on time, not allowed to be sick, no time off, locked in warehouses at night etc. hese are facts. i help translate for some of these guys. some are jailed for months as they have no passport until the thai embassy finds out about them. they are often unable to phone as their phones are taken from them. etcetera.

yes , a middle east country. peopled by westerners. supposedly enlightned educated etc.

but when u speak with my thai husband, even after all this, he is elitest and nasty about the burmese. and absulutely does not consider his own condition as similar to their condition.

he feels abused and misused but cannot empathize with the burmese in thailand. he says they lie, cheat steal and smell. the same as the people here say about many of the thai workers here.

what more can i say.

bina

Edited February 21, 2007 by bina

[bkkandrew]

Are you trying to sneak off on a technicality?

not at all , the whole exercise was to raise awareness .............

The OP raised awareness. You obscured the subject matter...

[Sing_Sling]

Are you trying to sneak off on a technicality?

not at all , the whole exercise was to raise awareness .............

The OP raised awareness. You obscured the subject matter...

Nice try at trying to talk your way out of your position. You added nothing of truth nor value pertaining to the topic.

[Prakanong]

You're full of it.

There is no law for a seven-day work-week and it certainly isn't the standard.

Go to any hawker centre at night and you will see foreign workers with their mobile phones, you will see maids chatting on their mobile phones.

You are talking crap.

The situation here in no way mirrors that of the point of discussion.

I have seen adverts from maid agency's saying "No off day" but as Sing-Sling says that is certainly not the norm

The penalties for mis-treating you maid can be severe with first time offenders ending up in jail

You just have to go to Orchard Road or the Golden Mile Centre on a Sunday to see all the Filipina's and thai's on their day off.

Quite a few maids do choose to do extra work on their day off for cash at another location though

[bina]

u all spend more time on yellling at each other then reading post???

i work as a volunteer for a foreign worker hotline and can tell u all that in any country there are laws but not necessarily enforced its not just thailand.

[JustAnotherFarang]

No, sorry it is not humourous nor ironic, it was tasteless but you wouldnt want to admit that would you, you being so much better than the person you where slandering.....

And I did not say BUT I do all of the things I mentioned above.........help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......

sorry, what was it that you do for burmese people again ??

Maybe your talk is like your humour, failing to reach those who would appreciate it

JAF

You hypercritical buffoon.

You espouse helping Burmese families and give suggestions how to do so, then admit you don't actually follow your own advice!

Yet, I am in business with a Burmese man, with dependant wife, children etc. etc. Business that generates income that does all the things you talk about BUT DO NOT ACTUALLY DO!!

And then, to somehow show your utter inability to understand irony, you state that it would be good to :"help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......" and before" talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words."

Yes, indeed you are correct that my homour or irony will always fail to reach you, as you are clearly on another planet. One, I would add, that I, nor, I suspect, anyone else would care to visit!

I wish we had a muppet emoticon...

You really are a blind fool. I have already posted to say that the things I suggested are things I actually do.........It would be arrogant of me to suggest to others to do something that i would not do myself. I thought that much was obvious by now but sadly you fingers engage the keyboard quicker than your brain receives the input from your retinas or maybe you just dont register or accept other people opinions unless they are familiar with your own. I get the feeling that you are generally a "mouthy" person hence the phrase "actions speak louder than words"

Guess the irony was lost on you.

JAF

PS And if this is the paragraph that you are trying to implicate me with, then read it again carefully and pay very close attention to the sixth word in........"BUT" I think you will quickly realise you jumped straight in and made a right fool of yourself. Maybe you should think twice before you engage your foot into your stupid mouth

"And I did not say BUT I do all of the things I mentioned above.........help a Burmese family, pay some bills, offer food on a regular basis, go teach voluntarily at a Burmese school, be there when they need someone to help them out......

You are more than welcome to quote any of my postings to support your absurd subterfuge where I admit. encourage or condone anything that you are accusing me of. Of course, if you cannot support this absurd notion, then I think an apology is in order or are you too big a man to climb down off that little pony you are riding ?

As for being in business with a burmese man, isnt that very much a case of I scratch your back and you scratch mine. Do you really think that you are helping those who need help the most with such a pathetic argument. Helping people has nothing to do with business and I fail to see how you think you are making any difference to those unfortunate immigrants.......... Seems like you are just helping yourself, nothing charitable. Actions speak louder than words.........yet again

JAF - No reason to be humble when someone humbles themselves

Edited February 22, 2007 by JustAnotherFarang

[Mid]

Only 80,000 legal Burmese labourers in Thailand

Yangon (dpa) - Of the estimated 300,000 Myanmar labourers working in Thailand, only 80,000 hold official labour permits issued by the Thai Labour Ministry, state-run media reports revealed on Thursday.

cite

[jasreeve17]

There is no doubt (in any sane logical mind) that Thailand is exceptionally bad in their treatment to migrant workers.

Yes, Bina far worse than most countries in their illegal and legal treatment of migrants.

In order to up my knowledge I went down to the Thammasart bookshop today and found a copy of:-

Memoirs of Burmese Workers - 140 baht.

If anyone is in any doubt as to how we can hurt others, or more specifically as to how Thais; cheat, lie, hurt, torture, rape and murder Burmese migrants, then I suggest you read this book.

Very sad.

p.s. If you attempt to defend this, then you are a %$#@.

[Sing_Sling]

u all spend more time on yellling at each other then reading post???

i work as a volunteer for a foreign worker hotline and can tell u all that in any country there are laws but not necessarily enforced its not just thailand.

. . . and you spend too much time glossing over points that are made, it seems. . .

In most other countries laws are enforced to defend the individual, in Thailand it seems certain members of society have no rights.

[JustAnotherFarang]

One thing is for certain, I would not want to be Burmese in Thailand........ guess thats why I feel so much for their plight and I know from personal experience how badly they are treated here and my friends are not businessmen but the very workers we purport to care about here. I still say and believe in the notion tha we should all reach out and make a difference in any way we can. So much talk and talk is cheap. So many opinions and yet there will be no difference.

"Pornography relieves sexual tension, but books about cooking do not feed the poor."

All these empty words on this forum all add up to a great deal of nothing I'm afraid but I will continue to do what I do and hope that others will join the cause and not just hijack the march

JAF

[Macx]

Interesting...

So if a person were to go to where the grass is greener than where he came from, he should have fewer rights, accept the "abuse", and count himself lucky to be where the grass is greener?

For most farangs, the grass is greener in LOS, that's one big reason why we're here.

The dish can be served both ways.

[sbk]

Lets all calm down and stop the mud flinging and flaming now thanks.

[JustAnotherFarang]

Interesting...

So if a person were to go to where the grass is greener than where he came from, he should have fewer rights, accept the "abuse", and count himself lucky to be where the grass is greener?

For most farangs, the grass is greener in LOS, that's one big reason why we're here.

The dish can be served both ways.

No, if a person chooses to go where the grass is greener he shouldnt have fewer rights, but if the grass really is greener, then they will, as they do and have too, accept that they have less rights here in Thailand

I never said it was fair and I wouldnt accept it myself, but then I dont come from Burma so if I felt that Thailand was infringing on my human rights, I could easily returns to pastures old where the valleys are greener (but the people are not as friendly) I have a love hate relationship with Thailand as I am sure a lot of people who have been here for awhile will testify too.....

But you know, the good still outweighs the bad....... thats what my Burmese friends say about living and working here

JAF

[MrSnrang]

There's a reason they hire foreign workers. They work harder for the money.

[bina]

Yes, Bina far worse than most countries in their illegal and legal treatment of migrants.

white slavery is alive and well. here are some case studies from the past year. sorry i cut and paste but couldnt figure out how to do it any other way. this is migrant worker conditions in israel where thai workers are our favorite migrant agric. worker, filipina is our favorite caretaker of old people, and chinese are our favorite builders.

The Hotline for Migrant Workers has encountered who were employed under the Yilmazlar Company. Violations of work conditions include extended work hours with no overtime pay, withholding salaries for periods in excess of 3 months, housing 130 laborers in dwellings that have 3 toilets and no running water, confiscation of passports, arbitrary rules such as a ban on the use of cell-phones, and the requirement of special permission for workers to leave their camp even on their day off. Employers can disregard human rights and basic employment laws since official policy prevents the workers of this company from working for any other employer (the regulations concerning workers of this company are even stricter than those concerning other workers). When a worker leaves, the employer notifies the authorities in order to have the worker deported before the employee has an opportunity to fight for his unpaid salaries.

or a thai woman's report:

The following testimonial by B. illustrates the difficulties caused by migrant workers' social predicaments. B. comes from Thailand, and has a legal work permit for employment in agriculture. She only speaks Thai. Since her arrival in Israel B was regularly forced to have sex with her employer, believing his claim that it was part of her contract. For two years B. kept quiet, while enduring her employer’s sexual advances constantly. She didn’t know where she could go to seek help and advice. In addition, B.’s employer demanded that on top of her agriculture work, she service his friends and customers, giving them massages. In one case one of the customers demanded a full body massage on his genitals. B. refused and fled the scene. Soon after she turned to the woman in charge of the employees in the farm, and recounted the incident. When her employer found out about her complaint he demanded she pack her belongings and drove her to the airport in order to forcefully deport her. At Kav LaOved’s intervention the immigration police stepped in and her deportation was prevented. Upon her return from the airport and throughout the process of finding alternate employment and filing a legal complaint against her former employer, B. has been staying with volunteers from Kav LaOved, who offered her help until her status was resolved.

The following testimonial from N. shows how the family contributes to the sexual exploitation of the migrant care-worker. N. is a nurse from Nepal, who came to Israel with a permit to work for a certain patient. The patient/employer’s son, who lives in the same apartment, demanded that N. have sex with him shortly after her arrival. He threatened that if she did not comply, he would call the immigration police and make her life very difficult. For more than a month N. had to endure non consensual sex with the son. As a result of repeated rapes, she became pregnant and had to have an abortion. When N.'s mental state deteriorated, the son called the police and claimed that N. abused his mother. She was arrested. She was released after meeting with a public defense attorney, and telling him her tragic tale. When N. managed to locate a new employer, she was refused the renewal of her visa by the Ministry of Interior, claiming that she was not eligible to renew her permit, as she had spent time in custody (due to the false charges against her). It took Kav LaOved’s intervention to get the Interior Ministry to grant N. a new permit for her new job.

http://www.kavlaoved.org.il/default_eng.asp all from this site......... i help out with them as thai translator when i have time.

the list just goes on and on and on....

In most other countries laws are enforced to defend the individual, in Thailand it seems certain members of society have no rights.

dont see any law informement yet.......still waiting........usually its the law enforcers that also are in on the abuse as are the immigration dept. and ministery of interior.

any different than thailand. dont think so. migrant workers here have no rights. i was attacked by a bunch of hoodlums when i went to interview a thai worker living in a carton box as a house. his owners took the film from my camera. they threatened me. they followed me out of the area with their weapons in full view. i reported it. three months later the complaint still wasnt dealt wth. it was shuffled away from sight. there are very few lawyers and volunteers helping out because of this. the lawyer with me was terrified. she no longer goes on field interviews. anon has stopped me from going to do field work also for the same reason. there now is only one finnish minister doing this field work (fluent thai speaker). more power to her but the rest of us will help only on more administerative things.

for those that think that thailand is worse than other countries in following the law, or lacking laws, well, u are naive. often laws are made but with so many loopholes and conditions that the weak, poor, migrants, etc are the ones left out in the cold with no recourse to legal or monetary help.

u help one person, u have saved a world (a jewish saying) . not everyone is able to go and save groups of labourers.

not flaming (i never do)... just happen to have first hand info. there's someone else on the board that works with burmese workers, cant rmember whom????

bina

[jasreeve17]

I'm very confused by Bina and JAF.

We all agree that migrant workers all over the World have problems, and should have protection, and help, and action.

(I'll underline that word because I know they will, if I don't)

We know that in reality it is as important how laws are actually implemented / adhered to, as what laws exist.

In the real World a law that is not enforced / protected doesn't really exist, or is certainly of no use, because it doesn't help anyone.

That is all a give me that everyone agrees with. But, we are talking about something else.

--------------

The OP is about Thai laws. This forum is Thaivisa.

I won't reiterate any points from previous posts, even though they were very valid.

Another thing that confuses me is: Bina and JAF are chastising the other thread contributors because we don't take affirmative action. Well, we have noticed a problem, we are starting to talk about it. I even went out to get more information to educate myself further on the issue.

(my book purchase to inform myself was naively chastised again by JAF. Why? Are you against education?)

Where do you think affirmative action starts.

Why your high and mighty know it all attitude?

The only naive people here are you two. Naive to the fact that we are on the same side, and could easily agree, then expand the topic. Your rude and ignorant stance is chasing away potential supporters. Do you have the situation so well under control that you can afford to do this to like minded people?

Frankly, I'm not interested in the Israeli situation, and neither is this forum. If I'm to start my charity work I'll do it here, where I live. But, I won't break Thai laws to do it. Which brings us back to the original point - awareness of these cruel laws in Thailand. No extra scope. Just that, to start with.

Edited February 22, 2007 by jasreeve17

[Sing_Sling]

Nicely put, jas..... It does seem that the only way for a few posters here to insist on being right is to bring uo their own agenda, whether or not it has anything to do with the original topic.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Sing_Sling

[JustAnotherFarang]

I'm very confused by Bina and JAF.

We all agree that migrant workers all over the World have problems, and should have protection, and help, and action.

(I'll underline that word because I know they will, if I don't)

We know that in reality it is as important how laws are actually implemented / adhered to, as what laws exist.

In the real World a law that is not enforced / protected doesn't really exist, or is certainly of no use, because it doesn't help anyone.

That is all a give me that everyone agrees with. But, we are talking about something else.

--------------

The OP is about Thai laws. This forum is Thaivisa.

I won't reiterate any points from previous posts, even though they were very valid.

Another thing that confuses me is: Bina and JAF are chastising the other thread contributors because we don't take affirmative action. Well, we have noticed a problem, we are starting to talk about it. I even went out to get more information to educate myself further on the issue.

(my book purchase to inform myself was naively chastised again by JAF. Why? Are you against education?)

Where do you think affirmative action starts.

Why your high and mighty know it all attitude?

The only naive people here are you two. Naive to the fact that we are on the same side, and could easily agree, then expand the topic. Your rude and ignorant stance is chasing away potential supporters. Do you have the situation so well under control that you can afford to do this to like minded people?

Frankly, I'm not interested in the Israeli situation, and neither is this forum. If I'm to start my charity work I'll do it here, where I live. But, I won't break Thai laws to do it. Which brings us back to the original point - awareness of these cruel laws in Thailand. No extra scope. Just that, to start with.

Sorry, I dont recall ever addressing you or chastising your choice of reading material. I only agreed with one point that a poster made concerning the fact that the Burmese immigrants really dont have much of choice here or in Burma. Please feel free to "quote" whatever you think I have said as follows, like I have quoted you below

"my book purchase to inform myself was naively chastised again by JAF. Why? Are you against education?"

This is what you have said and this is what I am challenging. Provide proof that I have said this please. I have no recollection of your posting regarding a book and in all honesty, skipped through your postings without taking much interest. No offence but it is a statement of fact.

As far as I was concerned I was addressing BKK Andrew, who also seemed to think I was saying something I hadn't and even when I pointed out his error, he still refused to acknowledge he was in the wrong for misquoting me. Being called a hypercritical muppet is a rude and arrogant stance and then you come along to admonish me for something I didnt even say !!

You go on to suggest I am naive, rude and arrogant. On what grounds brother, on what grounds. Both you and BKK Andrew have misquoted and misrepresented me. Will I see an admittance of this erroneous slur on my good character ??

I would be impressed if I did, I wont be surprised if I dont

JAF

[bina]

oooh yuck

i thought that thai people and thailand were the points of the forum or dont u care that maybe even folks from your family (if u are married to a thai) are those suffereing. or are u just worried about those u dont know personally. i know personally and on my skin the problems. the point isnt the israeli situation but someone brought up mexicans in america. i wanted to show the similarities in both areas. and btw, the sitauation in israel is sponsered and propogated by thai high level employers and managers of manpower companies that knowingly take huge amounts of money /land papers from poor thai and mislead, misdirect and misuse their power to steal lots and lots of money from these same thai that could be your wives' brothers, sisters, sons, daughters. these are thai that are breaking laws and are involved in international white slavery.

Bina and JAF are chastising the other thread contributors

not chastising anyone. i couldnt care less about who the people are behind most of these name callling posts. what u read or do in your life is not my businnes. i just wanted to point out that there are people that actually get up and do things even in a small way in thailand and in other countries (which when it involves thai people, involves thailand since the brokers et al are in thailand, rich rich thai. i've seen them here, and i've met them there too. )

you've just noticed the problem??? where do u live? in a bubble? and on top of this. most migrants are also 'enablers' to their own problem as i am which i tried to show u. i am caught with the threat of deportation over the head of my husband and with all the power and people that i know, can do nothing but go along with the perpetrator of the problem. so just imagine how migrant workers feel when they dont have access to the people and legal help i do. most migrant workers want money. they dont care about fighting for their rights; and in my experience with thai here, they dont liek when we interfere as they are worried rightly so about deportation. the same situation anywhere.

books in this case wont educate u. just go to some building sites int thailand like i tried to (in ban chiang there was a group re building the museaum and i was curious who the builders were). i was chased away with shouts by the 'bosses'. try to photo places and see what happens. if u are a lawyer, than do probono work like a friend of mine does. if u can translate than do that. if u are in the health services, join doctors w/o borders or something equal to it. reading a book will not help anyone but u. civil rights activists all around the world put themselves on the line. not everyone wants to lose there job because of civil rights activities. discussing in this forum is also not much help since most of us know there is a problem. learn to speak the language and set up an underground 'house' for burmese women who are escaping bad employers. set up thaivisa forum employee guidelines (like a 'we on thaivisa promote the payment of a fair wage, or close to it and are proud to say we provide fair employment for our nannies/cleaners/gardeners/cooks' club. and then set up the guidelines. people who are known to employ people in this manner get recognition for it among the expat community. etc) positive reinforcement.

i will gracefully remove myself from this thread since the fact that international exploitation doesnt concern thai visa even if it concerns thai people who come from thailand and the managers of these huge companies are thai and are set up in thailand and bilk thousands of poor thai out of their measly money with the full cooperation of thai banks etc;

feeling unwanted and non useful

bina

[jasreeve17]

Don't feel too sad Bina, because your heart's in the right place, and that's a good quality.

[Prakanong]

"btw, the sitauation in israel is sponsered and propogated by thai high level employers and managers of manpower companies that knowingly take huge amounts of money /land papers from poor thai and mislead, misdirect and misuse their power to steal lots and lots of money from these same thai that could be your wives' brothers, sisters, sons, daughters. these are thai that are breaking laws and are involved in international white slavery"

So so true - its sometimes (often) the Thai's treat their own worse than anybody else - its sad to see.