ICT Minister Rants Against Foreigners

[Prakanong]

"He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful"

So its all about the "Sufficiency Economy" then?

[ThaiGoon]

Ok then - what should Thailand do to make itself a high technology economy producing its own inovative ind self invented products.

You rightly rant against total negativity but what are your own prescriptions for Thailand becoming another Malaysia, Singapore or India?

What will it take for Thailand to produce a company like WIPRO, INFOSYS or Creative?

To improve our education across the board of course. How's this relevant to the OP's post and the whole thread anyway? If you wanna discuss the need for Thailand to revolutionize her educational system, go ahead. Create another thread (if there aren't already plenty other similar ones.)

Edited February 22, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

ThaiGoon, you are right.

The first time I read the article, I was as outraged as the OP.

Now, having read your posts, and re- read the article, I completely agree with what you have said.

It is becoming clear that we farangs, and also many Thais are coming into these debates with preconcieved notions and prejudices about what we think of each other - especially after recent happenings in the country.

It would do all of us well to take a long deep breath before debating these matters so that the farangs don't automatically assuming that every Thai is a racist, and that Thais assume every foreigner is just here to rape and pillage.

True. Point taken.

[ThaiGoon]

"He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful"

So its all about the "Sufficiency Economy" then?

And what would be wrong with that?

[blaze]

Well Seagate are building a lot more facilities in Singapore now and not in Thailand.

If Thailand are going to produce the high quality innovative goods he talks about they better overhaul the education system and hold their breath for 20-30 years.

They need to look at what India has done and look at the Institutes of Technology there as well a sending hordes of engineers to say India, Europe and the USa to get their PHd's now so they can enter these markets.

I do not want to get told off for "Thai Bashing" but seriously - these statements are ridiculous by the ICT Minister - what are his qualifications anyway?

I am in Bangalore in a couple of weeks time visiting our offshore facility there as well as WIPRO - there will be more highly qualified people doing innovative work in just those two facilities than the whole of Thailand I bet - that says a lot.

That's why the minister is urging for the changes. When he (and Thailand) does try to push for the development of our own technology, a slew of know-it-all holier-than-thou farnags all come out in force to stupidly decry and spin it that it's xenophobic.

When Thailand does nothing, she gets mocked for being backwards, third world etc. When she does want to improve, she's slated for being xenophobic. Go figure.

When she wants to improve, people in the government, like the ICT minister, will start demanding serious changes to education. And that will mean money. Money that ultimately comes from the taxpayers. An ICT minister of all people should know the relationship between general level of education (not the level obained by a tiny few in the elite) and substantive technological advancement.

Bascially though, the minister is absolutely right: it is or should be humiliating to a country with as much money as Thailand, (this took place in the Paragon, right?) that education is so woefully neglected. In one sense I applaud him for rubbing in the faces of the most materialistic of Thais, this fact. I just hope that it's not the case that many in his audience will interpret his speech to imply that foreigners are in some way repsonsible for the fact Thais IT industry is not up to where he thinks it could be. I wish he would have added the obvious: the key is a societal committment- a major financial committment to education- and that will have to include an end to childhood malnutrition right off the bat. It will, in short, demand an overhaul of Thai values and priorities.

Edited February 22, 2007 by blaze

[Payboy]

ICT Minister Rants Against Foreigners

One can look at this any way you want..........

one way to look at it is this - do ICT-money in it - if i dont the whole industry is worthless

[Payboy]

What will it take for Thailand to produce a company like WIPRO, INFOSYS or Creative?

about 1 billion indians

[LivinLOS]

All you said about the need to improve educational system is all true and nice, but it's not the point of this thread by the OP. The OP claimed that the minister is being "anti-foreigner" which he isn't. The minister also didn't ask Thais to stop buying foreign products altogether. He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful. The whole thing is being taken out of context.

It is the not exact verbiage thats wrong its the underlying tone of his entire comment..

For example "The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people"..

No it provides hard working innovative companies the opportunity to earn via hard work, investment (in education as well as financially) and effort, money from Thai people. this isnt 'taking' from Thai people its free and fair trade.. Thais have the opportunity to not buy these products, this isnt 'taken' from them.

Yes it is shameful that Thailand cannot produce anything competitive on the global market in this arena.. Its a large problem.. However the junta seems to be doing everything it can to spook inward investment, get work permits, or provide any form of equitable knowledge transfer.

Edited February 22, 2007 by LivinLOS

[Prakanong]

"He just said that this exhibition would just urge Thais to be more wasteful"

So its all about the "Sufficiency Economy" then?

And what would be wrong with that?

Well if thats what the people want includng the elite maybe they should start practicing what they preach.

The Minister should use public transport to get around for a start.

[Prakanong]

What will it take for Thailand to produce a company like WIPRO, INFOSYS or Creative?

about 1 billion indians

LOL -

[Maxwell Book]

ThaiGoon,

It's refreshing to see a Thai defending his people as vigorously as you do. Your passion and pride are obvious. Your ability to communicate in English is masterful. You can think, stay on topic, be relentless, rant, rave and otherwise give all of us obnoxious farangs a run for our money. I always look for your comments about what we said about your people. You are truly getting an education into how foreigners think about Thais and Thailand like no other Thai will ever receive.

Where did you get all this? Did you get while sleeping in the back of a Thai classroom, or reading comics, or playing with your mobile while the teacher was droning on and on about some nonsense no one could care less about?

No.

You got this ability to think and communicate from some foreign nation and some foreign classroom. You are reaping the benefits of that foreign experience.

You fail to realize that to a man on this board, we talk the same way about our own governments as we talk about yours. We rail against Bush and Blair. We call them idiots when they act like idiots. We criticize our school systems for not getting better or for getting worse. We pick apart local politicians for graft, corruption and mismanagement. We do all these things in our home country.

Now, for those of us who live here, or visit here or have family here, we do the same thing. We criticize, take issue with, rail against, point out the blemishes and otherwise cause a ruckus against ignorance like we do in our own countries.

Keep in mind, ThaiGoon, that Thailand is coming up, same as all our countries came up, slowly, painfully and with much racket from our own people and those who visited.

Keep on truckin dude. I wish more Thais were like you!

Edited February 22, 2007 by Maxwell Book

[Moruya]

I think the minister is right in some respects - but a lot of it boils down to granularity. However this 'sufficiency economy' thing is just a bandwagon that all the Thais have jumped on without understanding what it means as it remains completely undefined unless you use money instead of rice, prawns, coconuts etc. and look at the balance of payments which is what every country does anyway. If the population listens to the adverts on the radio and sets about buying land, dividing it into 30:30:30:10 and farmning it then there will be even less technology. Zero to be precise! And noone will be interested in any technolgy conventions. In fact there won't be any conventions. Indeed there will be no minister of ICT - just agriculture.

At the moment he is correct that Thailand makes extremely little in the electronics. The 'PC' companies here just buy-in the components (motherboards, disk drives, memory chips, modems, monitors etc.) badge up a piece of tin and then sell it on. Companies such as Dell do exactly the same but offer the full global sales and support package. What Thailand needs is some kind of policy or plan or it will still be fulfilling the roll of adding no value in another 10 years. It needs to aim at adding more value - whether through manufacturing components themselves, creating a new Dell or by creating the conditions where foreign companies can manufacture here and then lobbying them to get them here.

[Crushdepth]

I guess the only way Thailand would do anything right in the eyes of these pompous farangs is to keep depending on their technology forever (i.e keep being their economic slaves.) Of course, if Thailand failed, it would be even better. Why would you not be thrilled to see 50 bath per dollar exchange rate, right? Who wouldn't like having cheap beers and cheap prostitutes while laughing your asses off at their backwardness at the same time?

Thanks for your pompous, racist and ridiculous generalisation.

The real money is in taking technology and applying it productively, not in making the hardware. Ever been to Singapore?

[yeti]

As the ICT minister he should propose reforms to change this state of things, not just criticize.

[loong]

There is Thairung ......

http://www.thairung.co.th/

Sometimes nothing is the best thing to say

Regards

I don't know what that's about, the opening shows an Isuzu. Maybe they make parts now but their aim is to develop a car.

What I am worry is will we be able to use internet in thailand?!

I can only use the internet half of the time

Thaigoon, I do interpret some of the comments as anti-foreigner, but not all.

the minister said that it was wrong of Thai people to admire modern technology, which was not developed by Thai people.

I definitely consider that to be anti-foreign.

I think that it is right to admire foreign developed products. Many countries have embraced foreign inventions and technology; learned from the foreigner and then gone on to develop a better and more efficient and less expensive product.

An ex gf of mine, whenever something broke after 5 minutes would roll her eyes and say "Made in Thailand". Many Thai people have a very low opinion of Thai products. Much the same as the British 30 years or so ago.

A step in the right direction would be proper guarantees, this would mean that a manufacturer would build to a decent quality. Maybe Thai producers could improve their reputation. Dtuk Com in Pattaya seems to offer a 1 month guarantee on most IT items. It doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence in a product, but at least it is some sort of a guarantee.

"You have to learn to walk before you can run"

Thailand has done a great job of struggling to it's feet and is now walking. With the right encouragement and investment, I'm sure that it will eventually be sprinting ahead.

The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people.

In a balanced world economy, Thailand cannot expect to sell to foreigners, without buying from foreigners as well, so what's the problem?

Edited February 22, 2007 by loong

[kmart]

From the Bangkok Post:

Minister cool on IT

Comworld 2007 gave a welcome lift to IT vendors and many shops within Siam Paragon after the retail sector had been in a relatively gloomy state since the New Year bombs went off. But the event did not get such a good welcome from ICT Minister Sithichai Pokaiudom.

Speaking at the opening of the exhibition, the minister said that it was wrong of Thai people to admire modern technology, which was not developed by Thai people. "It is a fake development because the country is now getting worse as almost everything at the exhibition here is imported and nothing is made by Thais," he said.

The minister stated that "Thai computers" should mean Thais producing component parts, not just assembling, and that they should also design the products.

"It is sad that today we cannot find any Thai products. The technology show here provides foreigners an opportunity to take money from Thai people. To be truly proud, it should show technology that has been developed by Thais," the ICT Minister said.

.............

There's so much that could be said about this, but I'm truly speechless.

Perhaps he might address WHY nothing is Thai-made, why there is no IT sector here, instead of making yet another anti foreigner rant from someone who lives in the dark ages.

Its not really an anti-foreigner rant. He is just bemoaning the lack of Thai-made produce in this field.

He should take this up with the Education Minister / Ministry. Therein lies the problem..... To everything.

[tc101]

It seems he is after a "pure" thai solution, from design, component manufacture, assembly, testing and sale. Hitler had similar ideals about the direction of the German economy and nation in the mid to late 30's...

True, but Gandhi also had similar ideas for India. I am not sure about all the pluses and minuses of globalization, but there are are good arguments for both sides.

[DrFisher]

Hummmmm.... I've been saying the same thing about the USA for the last 25 years.

[Prakanong]

"The real money is in taking technology and applying it productively, not in making the hardware. Ever been to Singapore? "

hmm - and PayPal just announce intodays paper their regional offices for all countries served outside North America and the EU will be located in Singapore.

The reason given?

"The business environment, and excellent IT and Financial Services expertise"

I do not see Singapore bemoaning foreign technology coming here and in fact they embrace it as it make the country even more wealthy.

[singa-traz]

"The real money is in taking technology and applying it productively, not in making the hardware. Ever been to Singapore? "

hmm - and PayPal just announce intodays paper their regional offices for all countries served outside North America and the EU will be located in Singapore.

The reason given?

"The business environment, and excellent IT and Financial Services expertise"

I do not see Singapore bemoaning foreign technology coming here and in fact they embrace it as it make the country even more wealthy.

While the government policy on this is very clear in Singapore, on and off the topics of "Foreign Talent" make it to the newspaper, "Foreign Talent" having, sometime, a slightly pejorative term ... remember the comments on DBS' boss? ...

Anyway, comparing Singapore and Thailand is really an apple to orange comparison.

Singapore: 4M+ people

Thailand: 60M+ people

Thailand needs more educated people ... this was true 10 years ago, and is still relevant.

Manufacturing cost is higher, time to move to higher value products ... which required brain-power.

You can see what is happening to the textile industry ... exactly what happen in Europe 15-20 years ago.

Thailand can't compete in cost with China or lower cost country.

You can then discuss if bringing more "Foreign Talent" will fullfill the education needs.

As a perceived "expert" in my field, I'd like to think that I'm indispensable, but better come back to reality and accept the fact that there are equally smart or smarter Thai people, living here (including some who never went to study oversea).

As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)

[Prakanong]

"As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)"

Hi

How many multi-nationals set up their Asia-Pac regional HQ in Thailand though - I really do not know the answer to this.

There are many MNC's there and banks etc but the ones i know of are mostly servicing Thailand only and not the region.

Anybody else know?

Oh I do agree comparing Singapore and Thailand on demography and many other factors is like comparing apples and oranges.

Some Thai politicians and generals would do well to remember this also ;-)

Edited February 22, 2007 by Prakanong

[ThaiGoon]

"The real money is in taking technology and applying it productively, not in making the hardware. Ever been to Singapore? "

hmm - and PayPal just announce intodays paper their regional offices for all countries served outside North America and the EU will be located in Singapore.

The reason given?

"The business environment, and excellent IT and Financial Services expertise"

I do not see Singapore bemoaning foreign technology coming here and in fact they embrace it as it make the country even more wealthy.

While the government policy on this is very clear in Singapore, on and off the topics of "Foreign Talent" make it to the newspaper, "Foreign Talent" having, sometime, a slightly pejorative term ... remember the comments on DBS' boss? ...

Anyway, comparing Singapore and Thailand is really an apple to orange comparison.

Singapore: 4M+ people

Thailand: 60M+ people

Thailand needs more educated people ... this was true 10 years ago, and is still relevant.

Manufacturing cost is higher, time to move to higher value products ... which required brain-power.

You can see what is happening to the textile industry ... exactly what happen in Europe 15-20 years ago.

Thailand can't compete in cost with China or lower cost country.

You can then discuss if bringing more "Foreign Talent" will fullfill the education needs.

As a perceived "expert" in my field, I'd like to think that I'm indispensable, but better come back to reality and accept the fact that there are equally smart or smarter Thai people, living here (including some who never went to study oversea).

As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)

I saw news on Bloomberg a couple of days ago about Toshiba planning on closing all their factories in Japan and moving their entire manufacturing bases to China and Thailand by 2008.

[jbowman1993]

Who is in charge of creating these inflamatory headlines? This is the reason I dumped The Nation. He wasn't disparaging foreigners, he was bemoaning the fact that the Thai IT sector is losing ground. Gets people all worked up for nothing. Its asinine...

Edited February 22, 2007 by jbowman1993

[Prakanong]

"I saw news on Bloomberg a couple of days ago about Toshiba planning on closing all their factories in Japan and moving their entire manufacturing bases to China and Thailand by 2008"

But where will their R&D take place?

Is this assembling components exactly what the ICT Minister is railing about?

[ThaiGoon]

"I saw news on Bloomberg a couple of days ago about Toshiba planning on closing all their factories in Japan and moving their entire manufacturing bases to China and Thailand by 2008"

But where will their R&D take place?

Is this assembling components exactly what the ICT Minister is railing about?

R&D will remain in Japan.

[ThaiGoon]

Who is in charge of creating these inflamatory headlines? This is the reason I dumped The Nation. He wasn't disparaging foreigners, he was bemoaning the fact that the Thai IT sector is losing ground. Gets people all worked up for nothing. Its asinine...

The real headline was "Miniter Cool on IT" I think. The inflamatory one was done by none other than the OP I assume. Still got a number of TV'ers going though..especially the usual suspects.

[singa-traz]

"As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)"

Hi

How many multi-nationals set up their Asia-Pac regional HQ in Thailand though - I really do not know the answer to this.

There are many MNC's there and banks etc but the ones i know of are mostly servicing Thailand only and not the region.

Anybody else know?

- Michelin

- Amadeus

- Holcim

are examples.

But, I will not argue that for setting up a Regional HQ, it is more convenient in Singapore.

If there is one thing I like about Singapore, that's the airport ... to leave faster :-)

[Prakanong]

"I saw news on Bloomberg a couple of days ago about Toshiba planning on closing all their factories in Japan and moving their entire manufacturing bases to China and Thailand by 2008"

But where will their R&D take place?

Is this assembling components exactly what the ICT Minister is railing about?

R&D will remain in Japan.

R&D work is the type of high value work that countries should be aiming at though.

India is with lots of its brightest and best anting to work in their own country now rather than head of to the USA like they all did before.

China wants to to a lesser extent but what was telling was the recent statistic that of the 1 million chinese sent oversea's to study 75% stayed out - will this diaspora chang with the growing economy though?

Thailand should choose two or three sectors and concentrate its energies on growing skill sets in the high value area's in those sectors - another thread has Thailand forging ahea on stem cell research without the religious qualms the likes of the USA has - go for it

I cover the whole of Asia in my position and our thai staff are excellent and they work in research - we are putting more work their way and not just bcause its cheaper. There are some factors such as the time for approval from the govt but we will be using Thailand more for phase 3 clinical trials while using say aussie for phase 1.

[Prakanong]

"As for company setting up their HQ in Singapore, there are others that decide to set it up in Thailand ... closer to their manufacturing plant :-)"

Hi

How many multi-nationals set up their Asia-Pac regional HQ in Thailand though - I really do not know the answer to this.

There are many MNC's there and banks etc but the ones i know of are mostly servicing Thailand only and not the region.

Anybody else know?

- Michelin

- Amadeus

- Holcim

are examples.

But, I will not argue that for setting up a Regional HQ, it is more convenient in Singapore.

If there is one thing I like about Singapore, that's the airport ... to leave faster :-)

I forgot about Amadeus - I nearly applied for a job with them in Thailand 8 years ago.

Reading The Nation and the Bangkok Post the other day there were plenty of IT jobs on the go - Siemens was one and another said they had 100+ IT Jobs which was refreshing to see/

Changi is something else though - consistently voted best airport in the world by business travellers - bags there as soon as I am through Immigration and home in 20-30 minutes.

Chang

[Guest Reimar]

Maybe THAI should build their own airplanes too.

Silly bugger.

They have!! ake a look at a Thai build Aircraft from the 197x (the only one I know they really build! And it has flown!!)

Edited February 22, 2007 by Reimar