Learning Chinese On Samui

[OlRedEyes]

Me wifey wants to take Chinese lessons. Anyone know of such a thing here on Samui?

[sbk]

Which Chinese? Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese??? Does she want you to read and write as well?

[LaoPo]

In Bophut there are still quite a few 'old' Chinese families but I doubt if they can teach or speak any Mandarin or Cantonese. Most of them don't even speak it. They speak an old dialect from Hainan.

My wife, who is Chinese, tried to speak Mandarin and Cantonese to them but it was tough to communicate.

Sorry, I wouldn't know if there's anybody who could teach Mandarin but at least you could try in Bophut; maybe one of the youngsters studied Mandarin.

Good luck.

LaoPo

[Jet Gorgon]

When I was there, I tried to speak Mandarin to some of the old folks and the Chinese temple master in Maenam. Figured they would understand me because of all the Chinese good luck inscriptions pasted over their doors. No. As Lao Po noted, those that still use the "old" tongue (very few) speak Hakka.

[LaoPo]

When I was there, I tried to speak Mandarin to some of the old folks and the Chinese temple master in Maenam. Figured they would understand me because of all the Chinese good luck inscriptions pasted over their doors. No. As Lao Po noted, those that still use the "old" tongue (very few) speak Hakka.

Wow, Jet, where did you learn to speak Mandarin?; I'm amazed!

But of course, written characters is something different than spoken Chinese -languages-.

It still puzzles westerners that Chinese can read the -same- language/characters (in newspapers for instance), but often can't communicate with another.

But, in a few decades everybody will speak, read, write and understand Mandarin as it is the official language in China now, in every school, nationwide.

I've been travelling/working about the same number of years in Thailand as China but I've never coped with Chinese (Mandarin/Cantonese); Thai was 'easier' for me than Chinese.

I'm afraid I'll never learn proper Mandarin...

LaoPo

[Jet Gorgon]

Lao Po, if you can do Thai, you can do Mandarin. Took one semester for the grammar and the rest is just word study. Tones like Thai. Mandy 5, Cantonese (yuk) 8 or so. But the prob is, the Asians simplified the old characters but in different ways. The Japanese (my major) simplified when the Allies came in. Then the commie Chinese simplified the characters but way different from the Jpn style. Taiwan and old HK kept the old style. For example, to write "study" in new Mandarin is 5 strokes, in Jpn, it's 7, in old style it's um I dunno, a whole bunch.

Mandarin is a truly lovely language when spoken well.

[LaoPo]

Lao Po, if you can do Thai, you can do Mandarin. Took one semester for the grammar and the rest is just word study. Tones like Thai. Mandy 5, Cantonese (yuk) 8 or so. But the prob is, the Asians simplified the old characters but in different ways. The Japanese (my major) simplified when the Allies came in. Then the commie Chinese simplified the characters but way different from the Jpn style. Taiwan and old HK kept the old style. For example, to write "study" in new Mandarin is 5 strokes, in Jpn, it's 7, in old style it's um I dunno, a whole bunch.

Mandarin is a truly lovely language when spoken well.

Thanks Jet, for your encouraging words. I speak/write and read several languages but I don't speak proper Thai. I can manage a bit here and there but that's it.

In my view, Mandarin or Cantonese is so much more difficult to speak (than Thai). If you travel around in China it's so complicated now as there are so many 'migrated' people, speaking so many dialects....

But, in business and hotels most people speak Mandarin, otherwise it would be impossible to communicate.

My parents-in-law speak only in their own Hangzhou language -spoken by some 20-30 million people- and can't speak Mandarin (just a bit) but understand it well...

My wife speaks several Chinese languages but to give you an example:

We were sitting in a restaurant of a 5* western hotel and next to us was a group of 8 'so-so dressed' youngsters talking and screaming very loud.

I asked my wife: "where are they from?"...she listened and because of a few strange chinese words she figured out they were 'out of town' from an area some 50 (!) Kms away.

She said: "I can't understand one single word of what they're talking about...."

I said: "how on earth can they afford such an expensive restaurant?"

Answer: Show-off (able to pay and probably making some 'misty' money in the big town)

But, it's a fascinating country.

LaoPo

[Jet Gorgon]

LP, if you do Euro languages, you have to throw out every rule you know to do Asian ones.

I understand your wife picking up on one word and knowing where the lads were from; most dialects have one common phrase that is bandied about by all. (?? Not me tho.) If somebody says it, everyone knows where you're from. Even Shanghai-Beijing people say "what" differently. If there is a hill between people, expect a different dialect when you cross it. Oh well, the food is good wherever.

Edited February 25, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[OlRedEyes]

She wants to learn Mandarin. Most of the Chinese/Thai families on Samui (hers included) originally came from Hainan I think...

Won't help much just finding someone that speaks the language, we need an experienced teacher. She is quite good with languages. Suppose there's not much call for it on Samui though...

Anyone have any experience with learning a language via the internet? I would assume that would not be so effective?

As far as also reading and writing the language is concerned, I suppose it's best to take some advice on that. I am not up to speed as far as learning languages are concerned.

Edited February 25, 2007 by OlRedEyes

[sbk]

Chinese is extremely difficult to learn how to read. I studied Mandarin at University level for 3 years and at the end could read over 800 words. I believe its around 10,000 to read the newspaper

The tones are not a problem for a tonal speaker, IMO, so that shouldn't be difficult. I would suggest, just for speaking and listening comprehension try one of those language cd programs first. See how she likes it, then search for a teacher. I suspect Koh Samui won't have a professional teacher, but you could most likely find a native Mandarin speaker (educated Taiwanese speak Mandarin for example) to practice with once she learns a bit from the cd.

[OlRedEyes]

Sounds like a plan, thanks SBK.

Maybe I'll search for a Mandarin-speaking mia noi....

[LaoPo]

Sounds like a plan, thanks SBK.

Maybe I'll search for a Mandarin-speaking mia noi....

I just got an idea:

Do you know the small road (on the most North-Eastern tip of Samui) leading to 'Samrong Bay' ?

It's a small road, ending in a T-split.

Go right there at the T-split and follow the road to the left. This road ends up at the very end at a villa overlooking 2 bays.

It's the owner of the urbanisation and he's Singapore/Chinese and he has teenage kids. Maybe he/them can help you any further.

LaoPo

[Mark Wolfe]

The tones are not a problem for a tonal speaker, IMO, so that shouldn't be difficult.

What is a "tonal speaker"?

I spend 20 years in Taiwan, but have no interest in teaching.

Unless you want to invest a lot of time and effort, and if you only want to chit-chat, just forget the reading and writing.

As an old China hand once said to me: "Been studying Chinese for 10 years, have you? Well, keep at it; you'll get it one day...."

[artao]

Then the commie Chinese simplified the characters but way different from the Jpn style. Taiwan and old HK kept the old style. For example, to write "study" in new Mandarin is 5 strokes, in Jpn, it's 7, in old style it's um I dunno, a whole bunch.

Mandarin is a truly lovely language when spoken well.

dude, are you a tai? why called us commie Chinese? oh, yes, you are brainwashed!

Who had simplified the Chinese characters? It was POC before 1949!!!

[Jet Gorgon]

Ah, now I see why you pmed me, Artao. Don't get in a snit here. From what I studied, it was Mao who made the move to simplify the characters so that it would be easier for everyman and woman to learn how to read and write, no? Well, China is communist, is it not? Or you just take offense at the word "commie"? I was quite used to being called an imperial foreign devil with da bidz (big nose) when I studied in Harbin. And what is the POC? Do you mean the PRC or the ROC? ROC (Taiwan) definitely did not simplify.

[artao]

Ah, now I see why you pmed me, Artao. Don't get in a snit here. From what I studied, it was Mao who made the move to simplify the characters so that it would be easier for everyman and woman to learn how to read and write, no? Well, China is communist, is it not? Or you just take offense at the word "commie"? I was quite used to being called an imperial foreign devil with da bidz (big nose) when I studied in Harbin. And what is the POC? Do you mean the PRC or the ROC? ROC (Taiwan) definitely did not simplify.

Although most of the simplified Chinese characters in use today are the result of the works moderated by the government of the People's Republic of China (PRC) in the 1950s and 60s, character simplification predates the PRC's formation in 1949. Cursive written text almost always includes character simplification. Simplified forms used in print have always existed (they date back to as early as the Qin Dynasty (221 - 206 BC), though early attempts at simplification actually resulted in more characters being added to the lexicon).

One of the earliest proponents of character simplification was Lu Feikui, who proposed in 1909 that simplified characters should be used in education. In the years following the May Fourth Movement in 1919, many anti-imperialist Chinese intellectuals sought ways to modernise China. Traditional culture and values such as Confucianism were challenged. Soon, people in the Movement started to cite the traditional Chinese writing system as an obstacle in modernising China and therefore proposed that a reform be initiated. It was suggested that the Chinese writing system should be either simplified or completely abolished. <deleted> Sinian, a leader of the May Fourth Movement, called Chinese characters the “writing of ox-demons and snake-gods” . Lu Xun, a renowned Chinese author in the 20th century, stated that , “If Chinese characters are not destroyed, then China will die.”

In the 1930s and 1940s, discussions on character simplification took place within the Kuomintang government, and a large number of Chinese intellectuals and writers have long maintained that character simplification would help boost literacy in China. In many world languages, literacy has been promoted as a justification for spelling reforms.

above qoute from:http://www.answers.com/topic/simplified-chinese

In a word, the simplified Chinese characters exists for lang time, ROC want to use them as former but don't success. PRC just continue extending them as offcial.

I think you know more than me that the word "commie" is not a good , why not use "communist"?

You like being called da bidz or not is personal issue, but you call whole PRC as "commie" is another category.

[Mark Wolfe]

ROC want to use them as former but don't success. PRC just continue extending them as offcial.

First, when you say the Republic of China, and then cite references to the 1930s and 1940s you are confusing the matter. And the People's Republic of China didn't "continue" with short-form; there was a committee to develop the standard which was to be used nationwide. I could go on...

You are clearly not educated enough on the issues, so I won't try to debate with you on this, but suffice it to say that the Chicoms institutionalized the simplification of characters. The idea that this can be linked to the disadvantages of the Chinese Communist Party is laughable. The effort was to enhance literacy among the population in mainland China (at a time when the KMT government was in "retreat" on Taiwan), which was laudable.

Simplification was not a "bad government/good government" issue; it was one of an attempt at bettering the common man.

There are good arguments for learning the traditional characters, and there are other arguments to support short-form as well.

[artao]

Chinese is extremely difficult to learn how to read. I studied Mandarin at University level for 3 years and at the end could read over 800 words. I believe its around 10,000 to read the newspaper

read 800-1000 words is ok for reading newspaper. Leaning Chinese is difficult at first, but easy afterward, for you mustn't know more and more words.

[artao]

First, when you say the Republic of China, and then cite references to the 1930s and 1940s you are confusing the matter. And the People's Republic of China didn't "continue" with short-form; there was a committee to develop the standard which was to be used nationwide. I could go on...

Did PRC exist in the 1930s and 1940s?

The committee just standardized the characters and used them as offical, they didn't create them,just extended them.

You are clearly not educated enough on the issues, so I won't try to debate with you on this, but suffice it to say that the Chicoms institutionalized the simplification of characters.

Where did you educated on this issues? Do you know Chinese and Chinese history? if not, how to guarantee your information is right? otherwise there are a Chinee article discuss the issues technically.

I notice the word "Chicoms" used by you, I couldn't say more than please respect yourself!!!

Simplification was not a "bad government/good government" issue; it was one of an attempt at bettering the common man.

There are good arguments for learning the traditional characters, and there are other arguments to support short-form as well.

couldn't agree above more!

[naomisri]

I was told it is possible to study Chinese in Nathon. The guy who told me is away at the moment and won't be back till the end of the month. I would go to the Chinese temple in Nathon and ask there, but if you still don't get anywhere, PM me at the end of the month and I will ask him exactly where

[koheesti]

I think you know more than me that the word "commie" is not a good , why not use "communist"?

"Commie" is a more endearing term. "Communist" brings to mind people who are responsible for the deaths of something like 100 million in the 20th century and the loss of hope and freedom for another billion or two.

[artao]

I think you know more than me that the word "commie" is not a good , why not use "communist"?

"Commie" is a more endearing term. "Communist" brings to mind people who are responsible for the deaths of something like 100 million in the 20th century and the loss of hope and freedom for another billion or two.

"Commie" is only liked by those doggone imperialists, I prefer the word "Communist" and think communism will become a common ideology.

Those doggone imperialists have launched 2 world wars and killed more than 100 million people before and in the 20th century.

In a word, he can use Chinese, neither "Commie" nor "Communist".

Edited June 12, 2007 by artao

[sbk]

Anyway, this is not the time or place for a political discussion regarding either the PRC or the ROC, western imperialism etc etc etc.

Feel free to carry on your political discussion by PM but it is not appropriate in this forum.

[Mark Wolfe]

Artao said:

"Commie" is only liked by those doggone imperialists, I prefer the word "Communist" and think communism will become a common ideology.

Those doggone imperialists have launched 2 world wars and killed more than 100 million people before and in the 20th century.

In a word, he can use Chinese, neither "Commie" nor "Communist".

I believe you mean "running dog," as in Mark Wolfe is a capitalist running dog lacky of the imperialist American global hegemonists.

And Artao, I was a journalist in Taiwan for over 20 years. I know of what I speak.

But back to the topic...

Speaking Chinese and the number of characters you know is a foxy proposition. Lots of foreigners "speak" Thai here, but only know a smattering of the language, and butcher the tones.

With Mandarin, a little goes a long way, although the tones are enforced by listeners more with Mandarin.

It might be difficult for someone not familiar with the language to know, but some of the accents here in Thailand of Mandarin are odd, to say the least. It might be better to try some language CDs first to get the right pronounciation and tones.

[onecare]

Me wifey wants to take Chinese lessons. Anyone know of such a thing here on Samui?

HI

it's a nice windy day.have u found a chinese teacher for your wife yet? if so, congratualtions,if not, here i am

i am not very sure how to call u though, sorry about it.

my name is ZOU RUI, zou is ma family name, u can call me rui. i am from mainland china. now live on samui. i have been train as a chinese folk music singer in the college for 3 years before that i had learnt it in high school for 3 years two. and after that, unlucky i didn't do what i was supposed to do, i went to beijing, and worked in a internatinal school as a filming editor assistant...then i came to hk,lived there in 2 years, went to CUHK study translation course for another 2 years.

and now i am in samui. quite like here, as a new islander, i have to get to know here asap and make new friends too.

so i was doing my research online, found your message...

if u have any info about leaning chinese, pls contact me..

i will be very happy to teach people here or maybe a chinese folk music teacher.

thanks a lot and have a good day.

rui

[onecare]

I think you know more than me that the word "commie" is not a good , why not use "communist"?

"Commie" is a more endearing term. "Communist" brings to mind people who are responsible for the deaths of something like 100 million in the 20th century and the loss of hope and freedom for another billion or two.

"Commie" is only liked by those doggone imperialists, I prefer the word "Communist" and think communism will become a common ideology.

Those doggone imperialists have launched 2 world wars and killed more than 100 million people before and in the 20th century.

In a word, he can use Chinese, neither "Commie" nor "Communist".

PRC 1949 1 oct. national day.