Money Stolen From Your Thai Bank

[chuckd]

Not sure might be back early September for a few weeks.....very busy at the moment

I might be there a long time. Contracts over here. Arriving around the 25th or so.

[TomBrown]

Interesting read of someone's well documented account of fraud, Google this; ATM Phantom Withdrawal Insider Job or Outside Thief

[libya 115]

Interesting read of someone's well documented account of fraud, Google this; ATM Phantom Withdrawal Insider Job or Outside Thief

Thank you for that interesting link. It just supports my belief that the Banking Sector in Thailand DOES have some dishonest employees; which of course EVERY nation has. The crucial difference is that here in Thailand it is not fully investigated and the criminals rarely brought to justice.

Please see link below.

ATM Fraud in Thailand

NanLaew Read and digest: Instead of posting smart Alec remarks like the berk' you are:

QUOTE: NanLaew 2008-07-22 08:43:46

8. Pay attention to cynical old farang resident tourist anti-Thai rants.

9. Propogate the myth that your smiling hosts are out to get the farang every time.

10. Repeatedly quote anecdotal evidence as proof of how dodgy farang life in Thailand is.

UNQUOTE

[soihok]

Yes, thanks for the link, very interesting.

Anyone not encountered any of this with their bank account in Thailand? If so, which bank ?

It appears that it could not be any bank in particular but rather which ones the criminals choose to work in.

[cali4995]

That ATM fraud link is good reading. I wonder if that actual thief was/is an ATM technician? It

seems like you'd really need specific inside knowledge to be able to pull that off? There does

seem to be a disproportionate amount of banking irregularities pertaining to foreigners who

have opened local accounts here. As has been suggested, it may be because it is that much

more difficult for for foreigners to get any recourse. I've just got a simple savings deposit

account with no cards attached to it for a small emergency stash. No problems as of yet.

[whitethai]

Nationwide do not charge for ATM withdrawals so maybe its better to do that instead of have Thaibank account as I myseld opened one with Siam for emergency cash now I am really worried as I was going to put more in and transfer over money for a condo.

I heard you have to be careful too at ATM's because people can get yoru info via wifi

[Marvo]

Just posting my experience for reference. Never had a problem with Ayudhya Bank despite decent sums always being in the account. I think I'll be reducing that sum now!

The only disturbing Fraud experience which I can relate to Thailand was a credit card one IN THE UK - read on... I hadn't used this card for some months but decided to use it to pay for my Non-im O visa from Hull. They provide a payment form on which you have to supply name, address, credit card number, expiry dates and security number from the back of the card. I didn't feel comfortable supplying all of this in writing, but hey, it was the ROYAL Thai Consulate. Low and behold a week later I got a call from the credit card Co. fraud detection dept. asking if I'd just made a £250 payment to an on-line gambling website! I said no and the amount never appeared on my statement.

[picaro]

Yes, thanks for the link, very interesting.

Anyone not encountered any of this with their bank account in Thailand? If so, which bank ?

It appears that it could not be any bank in particular but rather which ones the criminals choose to work in.

Hi all;

In nov. 2006 I had 293000.00 bt taken from my Bangkok Bank acct. in France. I also went through the Passport coppies police report telephone calls filling out reports. The bank manager at the branch on 2nd rd. Pattaya was very helpfull but dealing with the head office in Bangkok was another story. They told me it would take some time because there were many claims but after months of waiting for a reply I went back to see the manager and she got head office on the phone for me. We went around in circles as they said it wasn't their fault because it was a gang of thieves that did this. So I said you mean that my money is not safe in your bank, oh yes it's safe but it was a gang of thieves so we will offer you half of the money back. I said thats not good enough I will talk to my lawyer. He arranged a meeting in Bangkok but got nowhere. Now after 2 years the bank sent me a letter acusing me of giving my card and pin to someone going to France or sending it and then sending it back to me after taking the money out. This is rediculous but a way out for the bank as I didn't use the card during the days that the money was removed and as my lawyer says in Thai law I must show that I had nothing to do with this. After recieving this letter my lawyer called head office and said if you think I was involved in this why did you offer half of the money back? The reply was that it was over the phone and you can't prove that we offered anything. I would like to hear from anyone that has been beat by Bangkok Bank or any other as my lawyer says that if we can show a judge that banks are using this ploy to get out of their responsibility to customers they will have to give us all our money back. Please pm me with any info you might have as I am not willing to let this go.

thanks and regards picaro

[Marvo]

Wow Picaro, so that's how the financial "pillars" in Thailand behave even when lawyers are involved. That's not an inconsiderable sum you're talking about - you've got me seriously angry now.

[whitethai]

Yeah

so sorry for the losses I was just had for hire car they kept my deposit of £70 and that really got me thinking angry every day so if I lost a lot more I think I would prpbably have heart attack.

Best way to keep money on UK bank I think apart from buying Condo etc where you have to transfer money over. Why is there no Escrow?

This would sort a lot of things out and I was actuall thinking of setting up a business for farang when they buy property etc with large sums even smaller sums of money.

Anyone know the law about this????

[tracer]

Yeah

so sorry for the losses I was just had for hire car they kept my deposit of £70 and that really got me thinking angry every day so if I lost a lot more I think I would prpbably have heart attack.

Best way to keep money on UK bank I think apart from buying Condo etc where you have to transfer money over. Why is there no Escrow?

This would sort a lot of things out and I was actuall thinking of setting up a business for farang when they buy property etc with large sums even smaller sums of money.

Anyone know the law about this????

be aware banks in UK can freeze the money in a way which could mean a trip to Europe. Same with banks in Netherlands...

The frooze me an account.

Whats the status if you havent got a bankcard?? If they get money out does anyone know if you get it back....

[Jale]

I have seen all these reports and happy I wasn't a victim. Now, I get this: It may be a new scheme of taking small amounts of money from many people or something else I don't understand. It involves two bank accounts at the Kasikorn Pattaya Tai location:

1. On my account, a mysterious 200 baht "Money Transfer No Book -- Service ATM 09001" withdrawal in November.

2. Again, exactly the same thing, another 200 baht, in December.

3. On my wife's account, she's got the very same thing in November (but not the same day as mine), but none in December.

The catch is, we've been in the USA since September, with both our cards in our possession. The amounts are so small they don't even warrant a phone call. I'll raise the issue at the bank when I'm back this Spring, but in the meantime, someone is getting my money and I'm getting nothing for it.

[LennyW]

I have seen all these reports and happy I wasn't a victim. Now, I get this: It may be a new scheme of taking small amounts of money from many people or something else I don't understand. It involves two bank accounts at the Kasikorn Pattaya Tai location:

1. On my account, a mysterious 200 baht "Money Transfer No Book -- Service ATM 09001" withdrawal in November.

2. Again, exactly the same thing, another 200 baht, in December.

3. On my wife's account, she's got the very same thing in November (but not the same day as mine), but none in December.

The catch is, we've been in the USA since September, with both our cards in our possession. The amounts are so small they don't even warrant a phone call. I'll raise the issue at the bank when I'm back this Spring, but in the meantime, someone is getting my money and I'm getting nothing for it.

I was confused about this "transfer" too, according to the bank it is an annual fee for your ATM card, new one on me, i did pay 100 baht to renew ATM card last time but was unaware of an "annual" fee. That was the official explanation at the bank last week anyway.

[longball53098]

Same same at SCB and BBL.

The end of the year is time to get hit with the annual fees for the ATM cards

[Jale]

I was confused about this "transfer" too, according to the bank it is an annual fee for your ATM card, new one on me, i did pay 100 baht to renew ATM card last time but was unaware of an "annual" fee. That was the official explanation at the bank last week anyway.

Thank you for the information. OK, it's the bank taking it's cut.

But if it is annual, why do I get hit twice (once in November and once in December)? Hold on, I had to get a new card last year. So they hit me for the old one too....And indeed, I had never heard of an annual fee.

Well, it gives me something else to do next time I'm in town....

[syd barrett]

Just posting my experience for reference. Never had a problem with Ayudhya Bank despite decent sums always being in the account. I think I'll be reducing that sum now!

The only disturbing Fraud experience which I can relate to Thailand was a credit card one IN THE UK - read on... I hadn't used this card for some months but decided to use it to pay for my Non-im O visa from Hull. They provide a payment form on which you have to supply name, address, credit card number, expiry dates and security number from the back of the card. I didn't feel comfortable supplying all of this in writing, but hey, it was the ROYAL Thai Consulate. Low and behold a week later I got a call from the credit card Co. fraud detection dept. asking if I'd just made a £250 payment to an on-line gambling website! I said no and the amount never appeared on my statement.

Never use your credit/debit card number and details on paper. It is madness. Imagine if someone used them for something illegal online your life could be ruined. I read about such a case where a bloke lost his job, wife and friends due to online fraud using his details.

[monkfish]

My brother had his Bank account emptied through the ATM scam in the UK.

Could the same Scam now be happening in Thailand?

Involves a separate magnetic card reader attached to the ATM machine (where you put the card in)

and some clear film placed across the numbers. (works best with the flatter type buttons)

As you put the card in it gets scanned and you leave your pin code on the film.

Now the thief can simply duplicate your card and has you pin code as well!

If you know its there you can spot it, if you don't know you won't notice it.

Watch out next time you use an ATM! there are thieves about

[Tolley]

I use a debit card which i top up on an as needs basis via internet transfer.

That way I never have much money in any atm account.

Works for me and is a good way of budgeting.

[smokeyjoe2008]

2000 Euro per day withdrawal from a Thai account in France by ATM sounds rather high. I even wonder if it is possible.

the OP claimed "2,000 Euro each time" which is also not possible with any european card even if the card has a high limit. the actual limit per withdrawal is set by the ATM no matter what other limits are set by the card's issuer. until end of the '90s some ATMs at Frankfurt Airport had rather high limits (5,000 Deutsche Mark) per withdrawal, then it was reduced to DM 1,000 and presently most ATMs in Germany dole out a meager €UR 300 per withdrawal.

very true.my lloyds tsb gold current account card has a 500 gbp limit.most any atm will ever let me have is 300 gbp.

[syd barrett]

2000 Euro per day withdrawal from a Thai account in France by ATM sounds rather high. I even wonder if it is possible.

the OP claimed "2,000 Euro each time" which is also not possible with any european card even if the card has a high limit. the actual limit per withdrawal is set by the ATM no matter what other limits are set by the card's issuer. until end of the '90s some ATMs at Frankfurt Airport had rather high limits (5,000 Deutsche Mark) per withdrawal, then it was reduced to DM 1,000 and presently most ATMs in Germany dole out a meager €UR 300 per withdrawal.

very true.my lloyds tsb gold current account card has a 500 gbp limit.most any atm will ever let me have is 300 gbp.

Lloyds TSB ATM's will give you 500 GBP and so will Bangkok Bank ATM's. (Bangkok Bank will give you 25,000 Baht which sadly is now 500GBP) + 4.50 GBP fee.

[jeebusjones]

I have seen all these reports and happy I wasn't a victim. Now, I get this: It may be a new scheme of taking small amounts of money from many people or something else I don't understand. It involves two bank accounts at the Kasikorn Pattaya Tai location:

1. On my account, a mysterious 200 baht "Money Transfer No Book -- Service ATM 09001" withdrawal in November.

2. Again, exactly the same thing, another 200 baht, in December.

3. On my wife's account, she's got the very same thing in November (but not the same day as mine), but none in December.

The catch is, we've been in the USA since September, with both our cards in our possession. The amounts are so small they don't even warrant a phone call. I'll raise the issue at the bank when I'm back this Spring, but in the meantime, someone is getting my money and I'm getting nothing for it.

I just noticed the same thing on my KBank account, from January 19. The crazy thing is, KBank is also charging me 10 baht per transaction to withdraw my own money from THEIR atms, just because I'm outside of Bangkok. <deleted>?

And when I tried to open a new account for use outside of Bangkok, they wanted to charge me 300 baht just for an ATM card, not even a debit card! Thai banks really know how to screw people out of money - it's crazy that we GIVE them our money, than have to pay them just to get it back.

[maccaroni man]

I have had a feeling for some time that a lot of these unauthorised withdrwals from Thai banks are inside jobs, if I ever have a Thai bank account it will not have an ATM card associated with it, I just don't trust them.

true we had a situation where we were depositing money into an account for a man who luves abroad but his accounmt was not being credited even though we had the reciepts. in the end it was a manager who ran off with his and many others money. the good news is our friend was given credit and he lost nothing.

[noahvail]

Yes, I am sure there is no reference to it in the regulations. My main point was it may come across as a little different, and that anything out of the ordinary might hold things up. But, I don't know exactly what one shows on the immigration paperwork. Do you get a letter from the bank? Do you just show a bank statement? That statement might just show an account number and an amount and not indicate that it is a timed account so all would be fine. Maybe put the funds in a regular account, then put them in the timed account after getting the visa approved?

I love all the stuff on this website.

You have to give them signed copies of your passbook, give them the original of a letter from the bank, on the bank's letterhead, of the amount you have on deposit on the day this letter was written - and it wants to be the same as shows in your passbook, which you have to show them (the copies are for their files, but they must sight the actual passbook). Timed deposits are not specified in the regs because immigration won't accept them. You can move the funds after the visa is approved, but you've got to have them back into your passbook account 90 days before your visa extension expires.

[kconor]

I doubt it can be done without access to the passbook at the same time.

[Pakeha]

The OP's post is quite old... but yes this happened to me about 6 months ago. My bank (in NZ) basically said too bad...

Apparently the little atm card swipe copy thingies are very common in thailand. Watch the ATM's you use!

[kconor]

http://siam-never.blogspot.com/

http://spirit6x8.blogspot.com/

All of these bank problems: deeper and dirtier than you think. My experience is with

Kasikorn Bank. A two owner account was contracted: either owner [or] can access

all funds. Later when wanting said funds, the Kasikorn Siam Square Manager said:

no, the computer says it is 'AND'..both are needed, ..we enter all accounts this way;

besides, 'when we give you your passbook, this negates anything written on the contract', and 'as the thai's name is listed first, you will need permission to access it..

as fahlang lie.' Yes,.....even with documents from the Kasikorn Legal Dept. ordering

Siam Sq. Kasikorn to comply....'we will have to check again,...and get an alternate

answer, because we cannot risk be sued by the thai partner, because they would win.'

'To be sure we will ask the Directors to make a decision [they will only do this one time]'

'The Directors have informed us that You must sue us.'

So, a logical response is: go to Thai Police or go to a Thai Lawyer. No. Thai Police

at Prantumwan said, 'we cannot make a report, because they are in my district.

Thai Lawyers [10] said, ' no we cannot sue them, because Kasikorn is important and is

protected by 2nd Chairman Pol.Gen Pow Sarasin.'

So, what happened to the account? First it was cut in half value, next its contracted

interest was reduced from 12% to 1.2%...at decided by the BOT, Bangkok Bank Authority...without any notice. And who sits on the BOT to make such decisions

[due to the crisis of foreign investment and no $$$ to pay back]...the Presidents and

CEO's of the Banks...and Boys Club. Not enough? Being married to a Thai and having

two children...the assets..although not accessable..are enough to apply for a marriage

Visa. This causes a plea to Kasikorn to issue a letter of assets,...which they did...but

as Thai immigration wanted to 'see' a bankbook,...helpful Kasikorn would 'privately

make a false bankbook to show to Immigration.' [which I did not do]. But there is always

the direct approach...as my thai wife taught English to Thai Drug Police...who knew

members of the Bank and Immigration...they would get me direct interviews...how to

reduce my visa burden. So, I met with the then Director of Thai Immigration for some

waiver due to being a crime victim, but married with children. He said, 'what, you are

an American....don't worry about the stolen bank account, just go open another one!"

A more startling fact, is that Kasikorn does not care at all, no comment.

[desertrat]

There is a book by a self claimed USA's greatest fraudster, now turned "cop". He goes into exquisite detail about all kinds of scams from identity theft to all manner of modern money fraud.

The thieves now have technology to rival CIA and NSA..in the USA. Can other countries be far behind?

I was so alarmed, I put most of my money on fixed deposit and only keep minimal amounts on the ATM ac

Also my bank is not exactly a "local" bank.

Oh for the days when everything was entered into a ledger. They recently had an exhibition of their old ledgers. Fascinating..each one weighed 50kg.

[DONEWITHIT]

I've been reading all the atm posts not just on Thai Visa but many websites pertaining to Thailand.Pretty frightening as I'm not wealthy and the thought of losing as much money,for years or for good,as many posters write of makes one wonder just what is the safest method of bringing your money from overseas into your pocket in Thailand.Many excellent posters are out there with so many different methods.I don't care for the flaming that sometimes happens but it's not going away either.Of course you always hear the negative aspects much more than the positive ones because people generally want to warn and be warned.I wish there were some kind of poll showing what the majority think is the safest method for the individual staying for good.I realise there is nothing foolproof anywhere but here goes with what I'm thinking may be safe but quite time consuming.

Swift wire transfer the money(under $10,000) from your home bank,via telephone for extra safety(this has to be set up in advance of coming to Thailand),to a Thai account with a bank you're comfortable with,preferably the main or a large branch developing relationships which could be beneficial if problems would arise.

Obtain an ATM card from your bank and instead of using an atm machine,with all of the associated problems and fears,take your passbook(& or card) and stand in line to do the transaction at the teller.I would assume the transaction would always be on camera.Maybe walking out with a larger sum of money from the main branch gives one a more secure feeling than a small branch in Huay Kwang and the feeling of not being as noticeable also.

If you don't have a direct line internet connection it seems as though there are just as many horror stories about doing anything associated with ones finances at internet cafes and wireless internet.Telephone banking at that juncture would seem the safest until a direct line was at your disposal.

Set up a bill pay with your credit card(from your home country) that can be done by telephone.Yes a more expensive alternative but pretty safe.

That being said have a few Atm cards and credit card for any emergencies that might arise.

Obviously I'm a new poster and would appreciate other members comments.I am referring to what might be the safest way to get money in your hands and not the cheapest.Thanks All

[Africanteacher]

I have had a feeling for some time that a lot of these unauthorised withdrwals from Thai banks are inside jobs, if I ever have a Thai bank account it will not have an ATM card associated with it, I just don't trust them.

Absolutely correct:

Then just last week, spurious withdrawals of 1000/2000/5000 Baht had been made and were shown updated in the passbook.

Opinions and suggestions welcome!

If he went buying anything using his card, then that's where the hitch lies. I had an a/c with SCB. Used my ATM to purchase some drinks in a pub. The next day my statement read 20,000 Baht less. Lucky for me I was broke at that time and needed to pay for a flight when I received the shock. So I ran to the bank, they asked me what I had purchased the previous day, and asked for the receipts. When they ran the ATM, it showed that I had used 20K at the very Pub where I had spent 1,200 Baht only.

I got the money back after 3weeks That's just coz I was lucky and had my previous night's receipt.

[alexth]

A lot of things like that are happening lately in LoS, bottom line is...if you wanna make sure you don't get robbed of your money, set the withdrawal limit lower. Who needs 400.000 baht in cash, in 1 day?