Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[george]

Autonomy for south? No way, says Thaksin

PM puts his foot down, saying Bangkok won't let anyone separate even 1 sq m of Thailand, ahead of talks with rebel leader

BANGKOK - Forget autonomy for Thailand's southern provinces, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has made it clear as the government plans to hold talks with an exiled Islamic insurgent leader.

His comments on Tuesday came as top security officials warned that discussions with Wan Kadir Che Man, the leader of Bersatu, an umbrella group of three insurgent organisations, will grant the rebels worldwide legitimacy.

Wan Kadir reportedly said this week that he was willing to give up a century-old demand for a separate Muslim homeland in the south, the only Muslim-majority area in mainly Buddhist Thailand.

But Wan Kadir, who lives in exile in Malaysia, said the government should consider giving Muslims a bigger say in running the administration, implying that autonomy would be a solution.

But Mr Thaksin, asked if he would be amenable to granting autonomy, told reporters: 'Don't be cheeky. If you want to talk about autonomy, stay away from me. Nobody gets autonomy. Because this is Thailand.'

He said the government would also not let 'anyone separate the country, even 1sq m', but will welcome efforts to resolve the south's problems.

On Monday, he assigned Lieutenant-General Pisarn Wattanawongkhiri, army commander in charge of the south, to start the talks.

Mr Thaksin, mindful of the warnings by some in his administration against dealing with Bersatu, said the meeting would not be a 'negotiation' but only a 'discussion'.

Lt-Gen Pisarn said he expected the first meeting to take place this week.

Meanwhile, insufficient evidence led prosecutors to drop charges against 26 people held in connection with a Jan 4 raid on an army base in southern Narathiwat province. Unidentified attackers killed four soldiers and stole hundreds of weapons during that raid.

Mr Prateep Triwimol, director-general of the Office of Criminal Litigation, said prosecutors would still charge five other suspects, who are at large, with treason and causing public unrest.

Since the January raid, the region had been gripped by almost daily violence, generally blamed on Islamic separatists, that had left more than 200 people dead.

On April 28, security forces killed 107 alleged militants who tried to storm 10 police and army outposts.

Thai Muslims, who are linguistically and culturally closer to Malays in Malaysia, complain that the government does not recognise their culture, tries to suppress their language and discriminates against them.

-- AP 2004-05-27

[chingy_]

i say wipe them out for good, these rebel have a brain the size of peanut.

[Padkapow Guy]

Thai Muslims, who are linguistically and culturally closer to Malays in Malaysia, complain that the government does not recognise their culture, tries to suppress their language and discriminates against them.

-- AP 2004-05-27

In the United States there are a bunch of different nationalites, Italians,Germans,French,Polish,Chinese,Japanese,Thai, Malaysians and many more. All these people realize that english is the spoken language here and if they want to get along easier with their daily lives it wold be beneficial for them to learn the language.

I think the thai muslims should go about it the same way. After all the live in Thailand so they should know the Thai language. If speaking malaysian is that important to them they should move to malaysia.

I am sure there is some dicrimination done on the Thai goverments part but they do that to everyone. (TIT)

If they are smart they will climb aboard and enjoy the ride before the Thai military takes them all out. The military does not have any history of cooperating with terrorist.

Personally, I think these terrorist will be good practice targets for the Thai military. " Kill them all and let god sort them out"

[KevinN]

When in Thailand,you should do things like a Thai

If you want to speak and act and do things like a Malay,then by all means do so,,but do it in a Malay country and you will be happy and cause no trouble.

Back in the middle 1800s the southern states of the USA wanted to do things their own way,and they fought a war over it and were about as successful as the Muslim Malays will be if they start that shit in Thailand,,it has already cost them more lives than it has cost the Thai, and the Thai did it in a stand up manner,not like the Muslims,sneaking around killing their monks and children by hacking them to death with machetes.

As far as I can see the best way for Toxin to do it is send in the troops and give them the chance to leave peacefully or kill all of em and then allow no more in this country, not as tourists or for any reason,there are country's that do expel or refuse entry for religious reasons, I know they will not allow a Jew into Saudi as a tourist,or honor your passport if it has a Israeli stamp in it.

[marquess]

Remember guys, those living down in the south were once part on an independent sultanate. With a seperate identity etc. They should be allowed a certain amount of autonomy in dealing with their affairs. That won't happen with mr control freak in charge. History shows us that the only way for polygot like states to survive, is through a certain amount of decentralisation

[chingy_]

those living down in the south were once part on an independent sultanate. With a seperate identity etc

where did you get that idea from, the south was never belong to anybody except Thai, these people are from malay settle in Thai soil, i agree with Thaksin i wouldn't even give them a soi dog shiet, that shiet belong to the Thai

[Yohan]

those living down in the south were once part on an independent sultanate. With a seperate identity etc

where did you get that idea from, the south was never belong to anybody except Thai, these people are from malay settle in Thai soil, i agree with Thaksin i wouldn't even give them a soi dog shiet, that shiet belong to the Thai

Please stay with the history....

Thais invaded the South....

Formally Pattani became a part of Thailand after border-corrections in 1906 and 1945.

The people there have nothing together with the Thais...

They are ethnic Malay, do not use Thai as a native language, are Moslems, and are holding a clear majority there of 82 percent of the population.

marquess  Posted on Fri 2004-05-28, 01:21:15

  Remember guys, those living down in the south were once part on an independent sultanate. With a seperate identity etc. They should be allowed a certain amount of autonomy in dealing with their affairs.

Absolut correct....

The only way to regulate this problem.

Johann

[Yohan]

...... and the Thai did it in a stand up manner,not like the Muslims,sneaking around killing their monks and children by hacking them to death with machetes.

Sorry, you are wrong, the Thai Buddhist were the most cruel when invading the South in history....

It was reported by the British troops...especially by Osborn 1838, he writes about unspeakable pain, calling Siam the place of terror, extermination, torture and atrocity,

describing in details torture by the Thais, including cooking human beings alive, victim of torture were Malay children and even Malay pregnant women.

Malay men were taken into slavery up to 1905 by the Thais.

As this area was not given to Malaysia after the WWII, as promised by the British, Thai Muslim are considering their homeland as occupied by foreign troops, and hate all, what has to do with Buddhism and with the dynasty of the King of Thailand.

While I agree, that all radicals must be forced to leave or to be locked in a prison, I think, Southern Thailand provinces cannot considered as an original part of Thailand.

This is an area of about 1.6 million people, and 1.3 million are ethnic Malay Thai-Muslim. The other 300.000 are also not all ethnic Thai, but Chinese from Malaysia (Hokkien from Kedah mainly) and some others, like Indian.....

Johann

[singa-traz]

Malay men were taken into slavery up to 1905 by the Thais.

Would that explain the origin of some muslim communities around Bangkok (Minburi, ...) ?

I was told that the muslims received large plot of land around bangkok, when they "were freed".

[Yohan]

Malay men were taken into slavery up to 1905 by the Thais.

Would that explain the origin of some muslim communities around Bangkok (Minburi, ...) ?

I was told that the muslims received large plot of land around bangkok, when they "were freed".

Muslim slaves from Southern Thailand were forced for decades to dig all the khlongs in Bangkok, this includes all khlongs around the Kings palace.

They were brought into Bangkok when Thailand invaded the South up to Kedah, and most slaves were moved from Pattani to Bangkok under Rama I dynasty.

Slavery ended 1905 in Thailand by a degret of the King of Thailand, and Pattani was declared a part of Thailand 1906 (formerly considered as occupied area).

Would that explain the origin of some muslim communities around Bangkok (Minburi, ...) ?

I was told that the muslims received large plot of land around bangkok, when they "were freed".

Yes there are Muslim communities east and northeast of the Srinakarin in Bangkok.....

I do not know however, if all these Muslims are ethnic Malays...

They might be Muslims originated from former slavery, but might be brought into Bangkok from somewhere else....

I am not sure....what is your source about that? who told you that?

Johann

[marquess]

where did you get that idea from, the south was never belong to anybody except Thai, these people are from malay settle in Thai soil, i agree with Thaksin i wouldn't even give them a soi dog shiet, that shiet belong to the Thai

Obviously this is what the Thai education system has taught you. The problem will never be solved by force, without autonomy I can't see anything getting better. Chingy if you study the history of the Hapsburg empire, you will see that it is possible to have a system, where subjects first loyalty is to the monarch and not the government. Providing they have some form of autonomy

[maerim]

Our diplomatic correspondant writes.

When in Thailand,you should do things like a Thai

If you want to speak and act and do things like a Malay,then by all means do so,,but do it in a Malay country and you will be happy and cause no trouble.

Back in the middle 1800s the southern states of the USA wanted to do things their own way,and they fought a war over it and were about as successful as the Muslim Malays will be if they start that shit in Thailand,,it has already cost them more lives than it has cost the Thai, and the Thai did it in a stand up manner,not like the Muslims,sneaking around killing their monks and children by hacking them to death with machetes.

As far as I can see the best way for Toxin to do it is send in the troops and give them the chance to leave peacefully or kill all of em and then allow no more in this country, not as tourists or for any reason,there are country's that do expel or refuse entry for religious reasons, I know they will not allow a Jew into Saudi as a tourist,or honor your passport if it has a Israeli stamp in it.

The voice of reason in a mad world.

Thank you.

[Yohan]

Marquess is correct with this posting.

There is very little information in Thailand about the South Thailand history.

Many Thai people do not know anything about that part of *Thailand* and its different history.

Malaysia was my first Asian country 30 years ago, and for any documentation about SouthThailand I have to use Malay (or British) sources.

maerim Posted on Tue 2004-06-01, 21:53:44 When in Thailand,you should do things like a Thai

Go first to Hadyai-Songkhla, then continue from there to SouthEastCoast and visit the villages.

Then you will ask yourself: Is this really Thailand? And what kind of people are this?

Take a look at:

http://johann.50megs.com/custom3.html

Selamat jalan ke Thailand selatan dan selamat datang untuk senang-senang dan untuk pendidekan di kampong Melayu, kawanku orang Thai yang baik......

(Have a nice trip to South Thailand and welcome for fun and study in a Malay village, my good Thai friend..)

Johann

[maerim]

maerim Posted on Tue 2004-06-01, 21:53:44

Don't shoot the messenger Yohan.

KevinN Posted on Thu 2004-05-27, 19:48:33

This is the gentleman you want.

He on the other hand wants to kill just about everyone.

[KevinN]

maerim; Thanks for the copy/paste of my post ahead. Sure is nice to have you as one of my admirers,thanks,but it is a shame that you do not have the intelligence to come up with anything of your own except those tired one liners. and just to critic others posts and never have any thoughts of your own.

Yohan, just where are these places that are mentioned in this article that I was reading?

1909-" Great Britain demanded territory in order for Siam to remain independent. Britain got Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Trengganu from Siam, which England turned into protectorates."

And undoubtedly the Siam troops were cruel, anyone that has ever fought again oriental troops will verify that they are a very cruel and determined foe,find out what the VC and NVA did to Viets that didn't agree with them,and everyone has heard of the atrocities done by the Japanese during WW2,I also observed ROK troops doing some pretty awful stuff.

But war is ###### and I don't think it will ever be any different. There is always a lot of emphasis on winning.

[taxexile]

maerim...861 posts

kevinn...859 posts

its neck a neck as they hurtle to the finishing line,will the grizzly determination of the battle hardened jungle dwelling no nonsense yank beat the suburban cynicism,switchblade sarcasm and laconic irony of the cheshire charmer.

its the morris minor versus the model-t.

its the rolling stones up against aerosmith.

its fish and chips versus the hamburger.

its too close to call.

[Yohan]

Yohan, just where are these places that are mentioned in this article that I was reading?

1909-" Great Britain demanded territory in order for Siam to remain independent. Britain got Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Trengganu from Siam, which England turned into protectorates."

In Malaysia they see the history a bit different, the Thais occupied the Southern Muslim provinces deep into Malaysia and the British demanded them back again. - Britain got Kedah, Perlis, Kelantan and Trengganu from Siam, but failed to get the Northern Malay states Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Satun, therefore dividing the region in a Thai and a British one.

Perlis, Kedah, Perak, Terengganu and Kelantan are (Malaysia independence was 1957) now the Northern Provinces of Malaysia, Kelantan is the most northeastern state and the most radical one....(it looks like in Saudi Arabia.....)

The situation in the time of the Bangkok Treaty was as follows:

(by Prince of Sonkhla University, Hadyai) - While these states paid symbolic tribute to Siam, they remained essentially independent kingdoms. Pattani was thus nominally under the reign of Siam, being ruled not from Bangkok but by a sultan of the Pattani royal line.

The power politics of Western imperialism during the 19th century provided Siam with the opportunity to gain what it had sought for six hundred years. Siam removed the sultan of Pattani in 1902, and in 1909 the Malay states of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Satun were officially handed to Kingdom of Siam after the signing of the Bangkok Treaty between Siam and Great Britain.

The formal division into a Thai side and a Malay side has had a drastic impact on the civilisation of the region. After the Bangkok Treaty, "Malay" as an ethnic group became a reference to the Malays in Malaya (later Malaysia). Malays in South Thailand became known as "Thai Muslim", as a result of the expansion of the Kingdom of Siam and the modern nation building of Thailand after 1934.

The last sultan of Pattani: After 1902, Sultan Abdul Kadir was first exiled to Phitsanulok in the north of Siam but later took refuge in Kelantan where his in-laws lived. There were a few attempts by the Pattani royal family and Islamic intellectuals to start a separatist movement in Pattani.

Johann

[sonthaya]

I say, let Malaysia have it if they want it, then we can have peace in Thailand.